[Counterpoints]

just like to say, after i thought i was cured from pois, i was, but only for a few ejaculations.  The fourth time I did it i got immediate aches and pains, the following morning was unbearable... headache, depression, very very irritable, and my whole body ached all over.  It felt worse than before, but probably only because i hadn't experienced it in a while.

Sometimes I don't get symptoms after ejaculation. (very rare these days).  And sometimes ejaculation actually alleviates my symptoms.  I think Guthrie noticed this too. 

[GoingCrazy]

just like to say, after i thought i was cured from pois, i was, but only for a few ejaculations.  The fourth time I did it i got immediate aches and pains, the following morning was unbearable... headache, depression, very very irritable, and my whole body ached all over.  It felt worse than before, but probably only because i hadn't experienced it in a while.

Sometimes I don't get symptoms after ejaculation. (very rare these days).  And sometimes ejaculation actually alleviates my symptoms.  I think Guthrie noticed this too. 

yes, it's very weird, I guess it is just how your body handles it or... each ejaculation is different!?

[demografx]

yes, it's very weird, I guess it is just how your body handles it or... each ejaculation is different!?

As Counterpoints mentioned, he and Guthrie have had different reactions; people like me have the same reaction every time.

You'll eventually notice many variations on the POIS theme here at this forum, both in symptoms, reactions and treatments.

[Counterpoints]

yes, it's very weird, I guess it is just how your body handles it or... each ejaculation is different!?

Guthrie wrote a great post about it here: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg215420#msg215420

[demografx]

yes, it's very weird, I guess it is just how your body handles it or... each ejaculation is different!?

Guthrie wrote a great post about it here: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg215420#msg215420

Thanks, Counterpoints, I went and re-viewed that and it's very good. I especially like the graphic understanding conveyed of POIS sufferers "crashing", (falling below the line), then taking days or weeks to climb back to baseline, i.e., recover from POIS.

[CertainlyPOIS]

just like to say, after i thought i was cured from pois, i was, but only for a few ejaculations.  The fourth time I did it i got immediate aches and pains, the following morning was unbearable... headache, depression, anxiety, extreme dysphoria, very very irritable, and my whole body ached all over.  It felt worse than before, but probably only because i hadn't experienced it in a while.

MY experience with pois is when i ejaculate several the symptoms seem to be worse and it also takes longer to recover even after 2 day hyperness.

[CertainlyPOIS]

test result
cortisol - 6.1  3 - 22.4
estrogen - 55 40 - 115
free testorone
dhea 878    208 - 771
prolactin 6.24 2.64- 13.13


i still dont agree with test untill i take in full pois.
I was just wondering does endocrinologist test these same chemicals

CC, you have every right to request that the endocrinologist test these exact same chemicals/hormones in-POIS.

Just wondering how does the free testorone compare to yours.  On paper doctor sent it shows that there is no reference range.

[GoingCrazy]

just like to say, after i thought i was cured from pois, i was, but only for a few ejaculations.  The fourth time I did it i got immediate aches and pains, the following morning was unbearable... headache, depression, anxiety, extreme dysphoria, very very irritable, and my whole body ached all over.  It felt worse than before, but probably only because i hadn't experienced it in a while.

MY experience with pois is when i ejaculate several the symptoms seem to be worse and it also takes longer to recover even after 2 day hyperness.

For these 4 ejaculations lets say I didn't do it all in one sitting, i did 2, and then about 2-3 days later I did another 2.. But the second round I felt a terrible, almost immediate pois response feeling in my head, I knew the ball was rolling again. I still feel as if your body builds up on a certain chemical but past a certain point if you orgasm and your body doesn't have much/enough of that chemical than you will experience pois until your head is back up to par.

[martin88]

-It's difficult determine how much impact the thyriod medication has on the improvement as it's effect has been more gradual.  But I can tell the impact of the effect from the PS as it feels like it wears off and when I take another it feels like it kicks back in.

-I beleive the PS is made from soy (and from what I read PS is no longer made from brain because of scare from animal diseases like mad cow).

Thanks Limejuice, it seems obvious PS is responsible for your improvement. Perhaps there is a synergy between thyroid medication and PS, we never know. I searched for a link and found that thyroid help with phosphate absorption, but it's difficult to say if phosphate or serine is the active ingredient in your case.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/767955-overview
Thyroid hormone and growth hormone act to increase renal reabsorption of phosphate

By the way there was other interesting facts in this article :

Phosphate is the most abundant intracellular anion and is essential for membrane structure, energy storage, and transport in all cells. In particular, phosphate is necessary to produce ATP, which provides energy for nearly all cell functions....Phosphorus homeostasis is complex and regulated by the actions of several hormones. Parathyroid hormone causes phosphate to be released from bone and inhibits renal reabsorption of phosphorus, resulting in phosphaturia. Vitamin D aids in the intestinal reabsorption of phosphorus.

Administering carbohydrate lowers serum phosphate by stimulating the release of insulin, which moves phosphate and glucose into cells.

Catecholamines and beta-receptor agonists also stimulate phosphate uptake into cells.

-About PS,  some nutritionist suggest to take it with food to be more effective.
Soy vs brain :
In my local supplement store they have brain extracts from bovine.

[Limejuice]

This is good information.  I initially took PS for it's cortisol reducing ability which I can feel working.  Also, I do feel more energy then ever before.  For example before taking either pill my body would almost shut down at a particular time at night - mental, physical, and emotional.  However now I feel as though I can push my body easily into the night to keep going and suspect it has to do with energy.  But it's unkown whether that is attributed to the PS or T4 prescription.

Also, I am skinny - like almost unhealthy thin.  I've weighed 130lbs since eighth grade and haven't gained an once in 15 years.  I eat like a pig too, which is weird.

[John21 (OP)]

Day 2(NE yesterday morning):
I felt ok yesterday but felt the effects at night, feel ok so far today but I can notice the mental shift.

Recent noteworthy consumption: cooked garlic daily, choline & inositol supplement
Recent exercise: moderate

This time I realize a common reaction to orgasm which I'm not sure I have mentioned before, deepening of my voice. Presumably this would be due to a testosterone increase. Could this be a clue to what is going on? Could POIS be a reaction to an abnormal jolt of testosterone at orgasm, and then it's decline in the system?

[hurray]

What is the latest news about fenugreek or relora? Anyone?

I still use fenugreek, and am very pleased that it's still alleviating approximately 50% of my POIS symptoms. Recovery time has been improved from 4-5 days to 2-3 days, and the symptoms are pleasantly reduced.

However, its not quite the wonderdrug that it was when I first took it. Unfortunately, I seem to quickly build up a tolerance to most kinds of drugs, and fenugreek is no exception.

Still, I should be happy that I've found a useful tool against POIS! Glad to see the thread is still going strong

[GoingCrazy]

Day 2(NE yesterday morning):
I felt ok yesterday but felt the effects at night, feel ok so far today but I can notice the mental shift.

Recent noteworthy consumption: cooked garlic daily, choline & inositol supplement
Recent exercise: moderate

This time I realize a common reaction to orgasm which I'm not sure I have mentioned before, deepening of my voice. Presumably this would be due to a testosterone increase. Could this be a clue to what is going on? Could POIS be a reaction to an abnormal jolt of testosterone at orgasm, and then it's decline in the system?

This is hilarious... I believe deepening of my voice occurs too, its almost like I'm a completely different person!  I don't know if it actually "deepens" your voice, it might just be how bad pois feels that we don't feel like speaking normally.

[demografx]

What is the latest news about fenugreek or relora? Anyone?

I still use fenugreek, and am very pleased that it's still alleviating approximately 50% of my POIS symptoms. Recovery time has been improved from 4-5 days to 2-3 days, and the symptoms are pleasantly reduced.

However, its not quite the wonderdrug that it was when I first took it. Unfortunately, I seem to quickly build up a tolerance to most kinds of drugs, and fenugreek is no exception.

Still, I should be happy that I've found a useful tool against POIS! Glad to see the thread is still going strong

Hurray, I'm glad to see that fenugreek still helps. Don't give up on the other 50%, it'll happen. As you mentioned, we're still going strong. I'd like to cure my other 25%.

[demografx]

Day 2(NE yesterday morning):
I felt ok yesterday but felt the effects at night, feel ok so far today but I can notice the mental shift.

Recent noteworthy consumption: cooked garlic daily, choline & inositol supplement
Recent exercise: moderate

This time I realize a common reaction to orgasm which I'm not sure I have mentioned before, deepening of my voice. Presumably this would be due to a testosterone increase. Could this be a clue to what is going on? Could POIS be a reaction to an abnormal jolt of testosterone at orgasm, and then it's decline in the system?

John, I feel the effects more at night, too.

Did you use raw garlic before?

[John21 (OP)]

This is hilarious... I believe deepening of my voice occurs too, its almost like I'm a completely different person!  I don't know if it actually "deepens" your voice, it might just be how bad pois feels that we don't feel like speaking normally.

GC,
No, it is definitely a real deepening that occurs, very noticeable to myself. Also, I remember more than one in-POIS telephone conversations with the reaction from others that it didn't sound like me. But in general the difference is not very noticeable to others, as a person's voice can vary from anything, such as a cold.

Did you use raw garlic before?

Demo,
Yes I did use raw garlic before. As you know I was once convinced that it was helping a lot and then began having some doubts when I experienced strong symptoms following an orgasm (non-NE). I am still very curious about it but unconvinced either way.

This time I am also noticing muscle twitching, I get them typically in the left eyelid.

[martin88]

Same weight Limejuice and eat like 2 pigs 
I don't remember if i have test my blood phosphorus.

I have this tendency too, can't take weight and eat too much.
About blood tests I think they can't show all deficiencies. The concentration in blood can be ok with a deficiency in cells, or maybe organs, tissues, brain, bones ...

Thanks Confucius for posting your results. Other labs have a range for free testosterone and I think it changes from a lab to an other. I don't understand why you don't have this! Bad luck!

[martin88]

Interesting study :
Garlic Supplementation Increases Testicular Testosterone and Decreases Plasma Corticosterone in Rats Fed a High Protein Diet
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/131/8/2150

[Counterpoints]

test result
cortisol - 6.1  3 - 22.4
estrogen - 55 40 - 115
free testorone 19.9
dhea 878    208 - 771
prolactin 6.24 2.64- 13.13


i still dont agree with test untill i take in full pois.
I was just wondering does endocrinologist test these same chemicals

Hi CCconfucius.  Can you give the units of measurement for each of these tests? (e.g. nmol/L).

[Counterpoints]

Interesting study :
Garlic Supplementation Increases Testicular Testosterone and Decreases Plasma Corticosterone in Rats Fed a High Protein Diet
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/131/8/2150

Interesting.  Thanks for posting these studies.