[Ambient123]

Yeah, i suppose you are right. I had best find what works for me.

I certainly believe that i experience a large drop in testosterone after orgasm. I read that Testosterone drops by as much as 30%, more than im willing to let go of.

I suppose that's why the protein treatment works for some, because its the quickest way to increase Testosterone.

I certainly have felt benefits with taking high-protein foods, as well as sources of Phenylalanine to increase dopamine and PS for Acetylcholine. But im too worried in case the benefits are merely all in my mind.

Did you ever experiment with protein as a treatment for your POIS?

[Ambient123]

P.S

Do you think it's possible that my POIS could be significantly alleviated by taking a lot more protein?

Obviously, im not saying its a 100% cure, but even a 55-60% or something?

[demografx]

Did you ever experiment with protein as a treatment for your POIS?

Strange, I get a craving for carbohydrates in POIS and it seems to offer relief. Another indicator that we're all different!

[demografx]

P.S

Do you think it's possible that my POIS could be significantly alleviated by taking a lot more protein?

Obviously, im not saying its a 100% cure, but even a 55-60% or something?

I think B_Jim and others here know a lot more about protein than me.

Did you see the forum posts on protein? (I think I gave the link on P. 156)
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg231451#msg231451

[CertainlyPOIS]

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/jan00-cover2.html
According to web site free testoterone is not binded to shbg, when testoterone is bounded to shbg it is not free for use.
I read somewhere else that total testoterone is measured becase it easier than free testoterone.

http://www.bodybuildingweb.net/blog/effect-of-ejaculation-sex-on-bodybuilding-gains/

acording to website testorone jumps 50% after avoiding ejaculation for a week and then quickly drops back down to normal the next day.  i wonder if this is how body gets out of Pois for some suffers. 

[martin88]

acording to website testosterone jumps 50% after avoiding ejaculation for a week and then quickly drops back down to normal the next day.  i wonder if this is how body gets out of Pois for some suffers. 

Testosterone in the blood jumps 50% at day 7 and then drop back in the blood. Maybe testosterone is increased in other parts of the body because I rather feel a constant increase in testosterone after day 7 till day 21 or more.

[rob58]

CC:
Great articles, both. 

One thing that is interesting to me from the second article is the drop in angrodren (androgen?) receptors in rats' brains which then do not return to normal until 72 hours later. Just looking for that brain fog connection.

The first article lists some herbs that stimulate free testosterone and reduce estradiol. Does anyone have experience with Chrysin or Nettle?

[demografx]

POIS DIARY

This is Day 2. The last 3 days (0,1,2) are superior to the first time with the new treatment a couple weeks back. I'd be safe in saying 80% to 90%+ healed this round. Unexpected. I thought it wouldn't go as well this time.

My confidence that this is "it" (healed) is high because last year - when I DIDN'T know the great results were due to a combo effect - the "treatment" lasted many months, albeit with slowly declining results because the testosterone was wearing off. I assumed that the results were all due to Levitra, so when testosterone was out of my system and Levitra alone only worked marginally, I assumed that my "treatment" (Levitra) simply was ceasing to be effective.

And this isn't just my 2nd time with this new Rx combo. It all started in 2002, when I began making those urgent, desperate calls to various "experts" (the Czech expert said "testosterone!" so I jumped at it and it worked great, but only the first time, since I didn't understand the limitations of depotestosterone injection). I thought it was a placebo effect.

This was after decades of failure with urologists, therapists, GP's, psychiatrists, religionists and the like. Even a dermatologist, who labeled himself "The King Of Dermatology". (In POIS, one of my symptoms is that my fingertips feel "dried up, numb, hot" and, that feeling inexplicably drives me crazy). The "King" laughed, challenged me, saying it was impossible to get dermatitis from O...yup, he ate his words after examining me (I had a hotline access to his office so that he could examine me immediately after O  : - ). POIS-dermatitis, there's another one for the medical literature!

In the early years I probably would've signed up for witchcraft, voodoo (expensive pins!) - - actually, any old charlatan would do.  []


Note to all: this is not medical advice. Ask your doctor if you think testosterone or Levitra may be right for you.

[martin88]

Demo, obviously there is something with testosterone. Your experience is highly helpful and encouraging. I can't understand why some other pois sufferers don't have this deficiency shown in blood tests. It would be so much more simple like that! Maybe low androgen receptors, but you didn't act on this, except with Levitra perhaps (absolutely not verified hypothesis) ... Do you think testosterone alone, without Levitra, can cure pois ?

Counterpoints, if possible maybe checking with fmri the amygdala, which is involved in social phobia would be useful. However since this part of the brain seems to change with different psychological situations it will be hard to say if orgasm is involved or not.

Amygdala's size change with testosterone :
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_26_155/ai_55165311

picture of amygdala with fmri :
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/science-news/2008/social-phobia-patients-have-heightened-reactions-to-negative-comments.shtml

Limejuice, your article on cortisol is very nice. "Cortisol is eating sex hormones", it would have been interesting to know more about this.

[demografx]

Demo, obviously there is something with testosterone. Your experience is highly helpful and encouraging. I can't understand why some other pois sufferers don't have this deficiency shown in blood tests.

Martin, thank you very much. My testosterone deficiency didn't show up either...repeatedly...for years! This forum led me to see an endocrinologist (maybe that's the key), who then tested me for free testosterone, along with total, SBGH, LH, etc. and only then did my deficiency show up!

Do you think testosterone alone, without Levitra, can cure pois ?

I think it might, Martin, for some people. Maybe even me. With daily T-patches, I noticed that my ED is improving! And just today I wanted to test your T-only hypothesis, but I was afraid of ruining my newfound peace of POIS-free mind!

I'm sure injectable depotestosterone wouldn't work steadily, but possibly the patches or gel might work because of their steady T-delivery.

I'm also on a fairly high dose with patches, 10mg per day. And as an aside, this 2nd round of success that I describe in my long post above, I increased my Levitra from 10mg to 20mg.

After 30+ years of severe POIS agony, I am thrilled with the results so far. Tomorrow, I am doing a 3rd round of bloodwork, including AM Cortisol, which is new (thanks again, forum!). Plus, I am confirming testosterone levels, prolactin, and DHEA-S.

My sky-high prolactin is still a mystery, but it doesn't seem to be affecting my life or POIS healing for now. And hopefully the next round of bloodwork/tests tomorrow will show prolactin improvement due to this current testosterone therapy.

[demografx]

Does anyone have experience with Chrysin or Nettle?

Rob, I searched all the previous forum posts, couldn't find either, but hopefully someone with experience will reply to your post.

[hurray]

Great news Demo! I hope this becomes a long-term solution for you, it goes to show that POIS can be beaten with persistence

[demografx]

Great news Demo! I hope this becomes a long-term solution for you, it goes to show that POIS can be beaten with persistence

Thanks, Hurray! Yes, persistence I agree is the key. Still, so far, it does feel like a
miracle. I hope it's not a dream. If it is, don't wake me up!

[rob58]

I can't understand why some other pois sufferers don't have this deficiency shown in blood tests. It would be so much more simple like that! Maybe low androgen receptors,

Martin and Demo,
It seems to me too that testosterone absorbtion can be the culprit, even if it does not show up in low levels of free testosterone in the blood. As Martin mentioned, there may be a deficit in androgen receptors. If that were the case, we should probably still observe symptoms that are similar to hypogonadism, right?  Question is, what test would be available to identify this problem of low androgen receptors?

[Ambient123]

MILD POIS HEALING

Hey everyone,

Just to say that i have recently experimented with Phosphatidyl Serine (PS) and Protein for alleviating POIS symptoms.

What i do is, after orgasm i immediately take a PS tablet and eat a protein-heavy snack. I have noticed some improvement of my symptoms, which aren't as intense or extreme as they were before this experimentation. Improvements include:

Greatly alleviated depression, more joy
Slightly improved energy, less fatigue.
Very little improvement in cognitive symptoms, however, although some improvement is noticed.

Basically, it seems that this combination does work to some extent. I feel though that my Acetylcholine is still burned greatly after orgasm, and as a result i do feel some of the symptoms of low Acetylcholine, such as reduced ability to understand written or spoken language, and difficulty finding the right words. Thus i feel that Acetylcholine plays a significant role in my POIS.

Any suggestions as to what i could take to increase Acetylcholine levels significantly? Any advice in general?

Thanks

Ambient.

[healthy]

Hello,

I'm new here. So... to summarize the prescriptions that help would be the following.

1. fenugreek (safe and works for most people. mildly decreases symptoms)
2. relora (safe but may incur headaches. modestly decreases symptoms)
3. levitra + testosterone combo (may have side effects. significantly decreases symptoms)
4. garlic (safe but not sure if it works)
5. low fat diet (mildly decreases symptoms)
6. protein (mildly decreases symptoms)
7. Phosphatidyl Serine (mildly decreases symptoms)

Clarifying questions
1. How long do you have to follow the prescriptions? If you cease the treatment will the symptoms reappear?

2. What is the specific dosage for the levitra+testosterone combo? How long do you have to take it for? What are some of the side effects? Will this not increase your want for sex or increase the frequency of wetdreams?

thanks in advance for your replies.

[Limejuice]

Low importance observations: 24 urine cortisol test

I took the 24 hr urine cortisol test and follow the procedure outlined herein.   I had the after being Phosphatidyl Serine free for 3 days.  

Day 0 was brutal.  

Day 1 I didn't have any POIS symptoms (none)

Day 2 I didn't have any POIS symptom AND I took the cortisol test

The results will take a week before I know them.  So I'm concerned that I didn't have POIS that the results will be inacturate.  I don't know why I didn't have POIS (following the plan outlined) but have theories:

- The PS has a long lasting effect.  Several day withdrawel was not long enough.
- The thyriod medication is really kicking in.
- I had a lot of good things happen in my life that prevented stress (I bought a new house, I saw my parents whom I hadn't seen for several months, I hosted a house party).

I'll post the results from the cortisol test when I get them.

[healthy]

One more question.

Phosphatidyl Serine and Relora both seem to reduce stress by managing cortisol. Has anyone used these together? Would it be harmful to use together?

[Counterpoints]

One more question.

Phosphatidyl Serine and Relora both seem to reduce stress by managing cortisol. Has anyone used these together? Would it be harmful to use together?

I used them together.  They didn't have an extreme effect, and didn't reduce my POIS.  I doubt they are potent cortisol reducers, otherwise they would likely be used in managing Cushings and other diseases.  Instead, they use ketoconazole (which has risks), etc.

Also a beta-blocker (specifically bisoprolol) greatly helped one of the POIS sufferers here.  Based on an endocrinologists opinion, and on what I've read about the experimental use of beta-blockers to treat nervous system conditions, propanolol would probably be better to experiment with.  This is partly based on past successes in such novel experiments, and also because it is a non-specific beta blocker.

[Ambient123]

One thing i should probably mention about my original POIS (without treatments) symptoms are that they are somewhat delayed

For example, Day 0 (day of orgasm): Fine

             Day 1: Still fine, though feel somewhat unbalanced

             Day 2: This is when most symptoms tend to kick in, especially concentration and cognitive symptoms.

             Day 3: Still bad, though beginning to fade slightly

             And so on...

Any thoughts or ideas?