[Ambient123]

TYROSINE EXPERIMENT

Hey guys, Just to update you on my L-Tyrosine experiment.

It is Day 1 (Day after "O"), and having taken 1g of Tyrosine this morning, there is a difference in my POIS symptoms, which are ususally light but present. Today, however, i am not really feeling any POIS symptoms at the moment.

So far so good.

The real test will be tomorrow, when my POIS symptoms usually kick in properly.

I intend to repeat the course of 1g of Tyrosine in the morning before food.

To summarise: no POIS symptoms present yet; only a light, pleasant tiredness, which i already attribute as a normal symptoms of orgasm.

Will keep you posted if anything should change.

Thanks

Ambient

[aaronchi]

Underwater...

In regard to lower back pain/inflammation, this is how the POIS started for me.

There was a period in my life about two years ago when I was going through a difficult time with my girlfriend and started masturbating a lot (4-5x per week). I started to get inflammation/pain in my lower back area around my kidneys. This would start an hour or so after masturbation but could last for days.

It got bad up to the point that it was difficult to bend over or stretch forward without getting pain in that area. I could also feel pain 'deep' in my lower back/kidney area if I did intense physical exercise. This pain/inflammation was related to the rest of the symptoms for me (tiredness, weakness, depression, problems with mental focus, etc).

From my knowledge of Chinese medicine, this all seemed related to kidney deficiency and I thought it might have something to do with a kidney infection that I had several years before. I ended up going to see a doctor to test for infection. They didn't find anything but I took antibiotics for it anyway.

Now the pain/inflammation in that area is much better that it was initially but there is always a dull ache or light burning sensation in the lower back area that gets worse after ejaculation. I saw a urologist recently and they couldn't figure out what it was. They recommended physical therapy but I do a lot of yoga and I didn't think that it would really help.

It might make sense that ejaculation is the trigger for some kind of histamine release that is causing the inflammation and tightness. I think the doctors were thinking the other way around and that's why it didn't make sense to me.

[demografx]

There is no pretense of keeping the responses super-private, and there never has been.  (In fact, the form explicitly states that responses are to be used for research). 

Feedback welcome.

If it's possible to do, I would support keeping the data private until the researcher's motives are known. I wouldn't like to see comments appear on Comedy Central!

[demografx]

TYROSINE EXPERIMENT

So far so good.

Ambient, as is necessary with all scientific experiments, I'm keeping my fingers crossed []

[demografx]

By the way, if there is a "web site" (which would be more a list of links without content), why not use it?

I really like martin88's idea of a website that would be a "list of links without content," which would simply help for easier top-level navigation of our data, while this forum thread would continue to serve as the location for the continued discussion and new content.

Martin, Guthrie, that sounds great!

[demografx]

I'm opposed to "Successful Treatments" part on wiki article. Because it's often an improvement and not a real cure. And because some of us are not close to the original form.

B_Jim, this makes a lot of sense to me. Also, you bring up a good point: we don't really have consensus on "the definition of POIS"!

I think the "original form" of POIS, as suggested by Dr Marcel Waldinger's paper, based on only 2 cases, is far too restrictive.

Thanks to B_Jim's efforts, we now have over 200 cases of POIS! And no one so far has objected to their inclusion, so maybe that can be the basis for the way we define POIS.

Any suggestions for how we can now define POIS more formally?

From this forum, it appears to me simply that POIS is "any disturbance caused by orgasm, lasting for days".

As a start, does anyone disagree with that definition?

[Counterpoints]

B_Jim,
for "successful treatments", I did not mean 100% successful.  Successful as in "some success".  I was hoping to elaborate on that in the section, and then build on each "helpful remedy" to develop a different theory for POIS.  Rather than having one treatment that will help everyone, I think we may eventually have several different treatments, each helping a different group of people: I think there are multiple causes of POIS.  This would have been more clear had I had time to write a lot more. 

But I don't.  I don't really have much time.  I don't think one or two of us can quickly write a good article -- e.g. comprehensive but also with little ambiguity. It will take weeks or months.  I encourage everyone to edit the wiki page as they see fit.  That is the point of wikipedia. 

If we are going to make a separate website (as per Martin's good suggestion), I definitely encourage one page to be a "wiki" page.  e.g. a page that uses "wiki" code, but is not hosted on wikipedia.  This is relatively common now, and can be easily implemented.  This way we can relax and write a good article at our leisure, and once it is pretty good, post it on wikipedia.

Now that it is already on wikipedia, I feel there is this huge pressure to make it good quickly.

Anyways, someone edited "successful treatments" to "helpful remedies" so that's good .  I hope everyone feels free to edit the wikipedia page.  Any edit can be undone, so don't worry about "messing things up", etc.

[Counterpoints]

Any suggestions for how we can now define POIS more formally?

From this forum, it appears to me simply that POIS is "any disturbance caused by orgasm, lasting for days".

As a start, does anyone disagree with that definition?

I think the definition in the wikipedia article is good:

---

Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS) is a condition characterized by severe debilitating long-lasting symptoms following orgasm. The term was first coined in 2002, by Dr. Marcel Waldinger (MD PhD) [1]. Since this paper, at least 300 cases have been reported, and recently, the number of reported cases has been rapidly increasing. Of the known cases:

    * Over 97% are men
    * A majority report only cognitive symptoms, although physical symptoms (esp. flu-like) are commonly reported
    * Symptoms are independent of how orgasm is achieved
    * Symptoms are usually present within minutes of orgasm
    * On average, symptoms last 1-3 days
    * Symptoms commonly affect sufferers between 20-70% of the time during a given month, depending on a number of variables

---

Therefore the general definition would be:
"Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS) is a condition characterized by severe debilitating long-lasting symptoms following orgasm"

and the general defining statistics are listed below that.  The statistics do not say whether or not someone has "POIS", they are just a summary of the present data.  As far as this definition goes, anyone who has severe debilitating long-lasting (there are vague terms, so are open to interpretation) symptoms following orgasm, would have "POIS".

[girlwind]

For the past couple months I have been doing extensive reading on adrenal and thyroid related health issues.
I am in the process of treating my own adrenal and thyroid deficiencies and have been given a lot of good info
from people on other forums, which concurs with what I learned from Michael8028.  Here are  some of the more
informed articles I've read. I hope you find some of them as useful as I did. I will post this info on Steve's forum
as well.


ABOUT ADRENAL FATIGUE
http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/whatis.php

ADRENAL SUPPORT (Copied from THE GREAT THYROID SCANDAL and HOW TO SURVIVE IT
by Dr. Barry Durrant-Peatfield)
http://featherstone.bravehost.com/thyroid/peatfieldadrenal.html

METABOLIC THERAPY: Adrenal Thyroid Correction
http://www.drrind.com/metabolic.asp

Pathways of adrenal steroid biosynthesis in adrenal cortex
http://www.umanitoba.ca/dnalab/med/adr3.htm

UNDERSTANDING ADRENAL FUNCTION
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/08/27/adrenals.aspx

TESTS FOR ADRENALS
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

The Adrenal Stress Index Test
http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI.html

ADRENAL INSUFFICIENCY UNDERDIAGNOSED INTHE CRITICALLY ILL
http://www.pulmonaryreviews.com/jan03/pr_jan03_adrenal.html

Pathways of adrenal steroid biosynthesis in adrenal cortex
http://www.umanitoba.ca/dnalab/med/adr3.htm


David Derry, MD, Ph.D on RETHINKING THE TSH TEST
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/david-derry.htm

Stop the Thyroid Madness.com
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

Thyroid hormones as neurotransmitters.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9001201

Molecule Derived from Thyroid Hormone May Be New Neurotransmitter
http://pub.ucsf.edu/today/news.php?news_id=200405175

Thyroid hormones, serotonin and mood: of synergy and significance in the adult brain
http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v7/n2/abs/4000963a.html

The Depression Thyroid Disease Connection Explored
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/cohendepression.htm

[Counterpoints]

Thanks for the info girlwind.

[girlwind]

Thanks for the info girlwind.

You're welcome.

[demografx]

B_Jim, Counterpoints, Girlwind...everyone, I know I repeat this, but aren't exhaustion and fatigue predominant in defining POIS, not "also rans"?

I thought cognitive symptoms were secondary.

[demografx]

Would "lasting for days" be good for wikipedia? It differentiates us from the short term post climax symptom population.

[demografx]

POIS DIARY

Two hours into post-O. It feels like 90% symptom-free, based on past experience. 3rd try, 2nd revalidation!

Testosterone/Levitra/Stimulants/Caffeine.

This is not medical advice. Ask your doctor if any treatment mentioned on this forum is right for you.

[GoingCrazy]

what else helps a lot for pois, anxiety and all these other conditions is  Rhodiola Rosea... Try It.

[Ambient123]

TYROSINE EXPERIMENT

UPDATE:

Overall, my well-being remains stable. Currently i feel fatigued. However, i feel that it is more to do with the Tyrosine "wearing off", as it were. Still feel well, no depression etc. Concentration and cognition is still pretty strong, though due to weariness, it is reduced, although only very slightly.

As I mentioned before, the true effectiveness of Tyrosine will be demonstrated tomorrow, when my POIS symptoms (Fatigue, brain fog, poor memory) usually begin to kick in properly.

I will follow the same course (1g of Tyrosine) in the morning, and post the update.

To summarise: Well-being and contentment remain. Cognition still functioning well.

See you all tomorrow.

Ambient

(P.S. Thank you all for your support and kind advice)  []

[hurray]

B_Jim,
for "successful treatments", I did not mean 100% successful.  Successful as in "some success".  I was hoping to elaborate on that in the section, and then build on each "helpful remedy" to develop a different theory for POIS.  Rather than having one treatment that will help everyone, I think we may eventually have several different treatments, each helping a different group of people: I think there are multiple causes of POIS.  This would have been more clear had I had time to write a lot more. 

But I don't.  I don't really have much time.  I don't think one or two of us can quickly write a good article -- e.g. comprehensive but also with little ambiguity. It will take weeks or months.  I encourage everyone to edit the wiki page as they see fit.  That is the point of wikipedia. 

If we are going to make a separate website (as per Martin's good suggestion), I definitely encourage one page to be a "wiki" page.  e.g. a page that uses "wiki" code, but is not hosted on wikipedia.  This is relatively common now, and can be easily implemented.  This way we can relax and write a good article at our leisure, and once it is pretty good, post it on wikipedia.

Now that it is already on wikipedia, I feel there is this huge pressure to make it good quickly.

Anyways, someone edited "successful treatments" to "helpful remedies" so that's good .  I hope everyone feels free to edit the wikipedia page.  Any edit can be undone, so don't worry about "messing things up", etc.

I like the new wikipedia article very much, but I share your reservations about getting it "up to Wikipedia standard" quickly.

The main problem is that there is a high probability that the article will get deleted quickly. Wikipedia does not embrace new entries as it once did- many editors are proud deletionists:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Deletionism

The fact that POIS is an obscure medical condition works in our favor, as many would-be deleters would be put off by their own lack of knowledge.

When a wikipedia article is nominated for deletion, there is a period of debate before a decision is taken, so I half-expect somebody to be posting here shortly urging us to rush to wikipedia to "defend" our entry

Enough about deletion - it is an excellent way to raise POIS awareness and I hope the entry stays there full-time!

[hurray]

One other thing - relatively obscure topics tend to be pretty short on wikipedia, so we can't expect wikipedia to be a handy repository for all our latest ideas and theories. The article is probably already as long as most wikipedia editors would tolerate. As Counterpoints suggested, a wiki-like section on a separate site would be very good, although I wouldn't want it to put people off coming on this thread!

Glad to hear your treatment is still working Demo

[Counterpoints]

B_Jim, Counterpoints, Girlwind...everyone, I know I repeat this, but aren't exhaustion and fatigue predominant in defining POIS, not "also rans"?

I thought cognitive symptoms were secondary.

No, exhaustion should not be used to define POIS.  I think we should be general... POIS is characterized by severe symptoms following orgasm.

Also, cognitive symptoms are not secondary.  We see some cognitive symptoms reported in almost every case.  Cognitive symptoms may be secondary to your specific case, though.  (Is that so?).

And exhaustion could be considered a cognitive symptom.

(What do you mean by "also rans"?).

[demografx]

what else helps a lot for pois, anxiety and all these other conditions is  Rhodiola Rosea... Try It.

GC, tell us more about your experience with it.