[demografx]

Hormone Tests

The doctor prefered thyriod test is a pituitary hormone called TSH, not Free T4 or Free T3.  The doctor prefered testosterone test is not the pituitary hormone LH, its the free Testosterone.

Why are different doctor ordered hormone tests inconsistant - some test the pituitary, others test the free blood levels?

For my thyriod, the TSH was high but free T3 and T4 were normal.  For my testosterone, the free testosterone was normal (I didn't test the pituitary hormone LH). 

Limejuice, excellent questions. My previous testosterone tests, ordered by GP's and urologists showed "normal" levels. But my current endocrinologist-ordered tests show my testosterone levels as "low"! As you know, a big part of my successful POIS treatment is testosterone patches, which have increased my levels and are still at the low-end of normal.

My current endocrinologist blood testing for testosterone includes total, free, and biovailable testosterone, LH, FSH and SGBH.

Proper testing and the right doctor are crucial to POIS success, imo. This forum drummed that mantra in to me nicely!

[Limejuice]

My previous testosterone tests, ordered by GP's and urologists showed "normal" levels. But my current endocrinologist-ordered tests show my testosterone levels as "low"!

Demo, which type of test(s) did your Urologists perform?  Which type of tests did your endo perform?

Any idea why there is a difference between the results?

Thanks Demo

[demografx]

My previous testosterone tests, ordered by GP's and urologists showed "normal" levels. But my current endocrinologist-ordered tests show my testosterone levels as "low"!

Demo, which type of test(s) did your Urologists perform?  Which type of tests did your endo perform?

Any idea why there is a difference between the results?

Actually, the last GP ordered the tests for the last urologist, and this was before this forum taught me to pay more attention to these tests. I recall that only one number was reported, no breakdowns such as free testosterone. I also recall one of the previous docs saying, "testosterone testing isn't all that reliable." And IIRC, my T-reading itself was a range and not an individual number. All in all, my previous T-testing seemed to be comparatively primitive. I now work with a top rated university medical lab and endocrinology unit.

[Whoa]

Indeed, Whoa, I don't intend to treat myself with hormones. Im going to get tested by my doctor, and if Adrenal Insufficiency is the cause, and Testosterone and DHEA are low, i will follow his treatment as he sees fit.

I'm glad that the natural remedies are working for you.

May i ask your current method of treatment is?

http://www.ivannikolov.com/bodybuilding-articles/all/increase-testosterone-bioavailability.htm [nofollow]

That's pretty much it, for the most part. There are three parts, I recommend reading all three. It seems to be pretty in sync with other articles on the same subject - only more scientific with references. That is a plus. I'm not following his regimen to the T, but I'm building up to it.
My current take...

For 1 (increase testosterone levels), I'm currently on this plus some other exercises: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/workyearprint4.htm [nofollow] - and I'm going heavy and with less reps.

For 2 (prevent testosterone levels from getting low), I'm lowering my body fat which had ballooned a bit despite my skinny frame - to do this I incorporated an cardio workout after every resistance training session - typically running 30 minutes non-stop, or swimming until I cannot swim anymore. I'm getting there.

Cut the alcohol down to 1 drink every few weeks.

Trying so hard to cut my stress (I was born a worry-wart). I'm practicing meditation for about 20 minutes every other work day and am considering going to a therapist.

Increasing consumption of monounsaturated fats - yes eat fat but have low bodyfat. lol. Did I mention I'm eating a lot of walnuts? These are a good source of monounsaturated fats as are avocados. If there are others let me know.

I'm making it a point to get to bed early if I'm going to wake up early.

Vitamin C from daily raw baby spinach and apple juice.

For 4 (Block the testosterone-binding effects of SHBG), I have not tried any of these yet.

For 5 (Lowering aromatize levels), I have upped my zinc via the raw baby spinach. I eat about a large fistful or two every night.

[Whoa]

Welcome back Whoa and congratulations for your success. Sources of mono-insatured fats I use are : avocados, olive oil and almonds. I don't know what is the most important source of fat to help steroid metabolism between satured fats, mono-insatured fats and poly-insatured.
But my total cholesterol is under the limit and i can't increase it with all oils i tried :/
What about your experiment with Levitra and combination with testosterone ?

====

You know, it's hard for me to confirm that Levitra had an actual effect. This is because of 1) I had just started going out with my girlfriend (and I felt on cloud 9 at the time but could not say 100% that it was Levitra) and 2) because when I was really tired and stressed out and had POIS symptoms, Levitra didn't seem to help.

A big part of the working out, is that in the past month or so it has also had a side benefit of really making me feel healthy and relaxed. I do think that stress plays a big role in my POIS symptoms - perhaps it's choking my testicles?

[martin88]

Hi Wellness, are you a pois sufferer?

Martin, do you know why some MD's are skeptical of "adrenal fatigue"?

No idea about this. Maybe their own experience or ignorance...
An other one here :
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adrenal-fatigue/AN01583

Phosphorus is a cofactor and enzyme for steroids.

B_Jim, I'd be interested to have a link explaining this if you have it. Thanks. I know now that a severe disease I had when I was younger (years after the first pois episode though) could cause hypophosphatemia.

[Finally]

LEVITRA SUBSTITUTE FOR NON-E.D. POIS?

I've been thinking lately that, with the success of my treatment for POIS, it would be a shame if it only generalizes to a population that has ED (which Levitra targets).

I'm leaving out the testosterone discussion for now. That is not as age-sensitive, I think, as Levitra.

Let's think of what ingredients might be working in Levitra for a group of POIS sufferers, but stretching beyond the ED set. Nitric oxide? Then let's translate that into something that has a nitric oxide stimulant for people who don't need an ED treatment!

Horny Goat Weed, the Chinese herb, has been brought up as an example. I know, they should change the name.

I'm not suggesting that testosterone + Levitra is "the cure-all for POIS". But my guess is that it has universal application to a certain sub-set of POIS sufferers. A starting point I think would be the POIS sufferers who have some form of testosterone deficiency but don't need Levitra-for-ED.

Or maybe, under doctor's careful supervision, a very low dose of Levitra could be tried for those with testosterone deficiency but no ED?

Starting 7 years ago with testosterone injection only, and with more experiments over the last 2 years, one thing I have learned is that testosterone and Levitra won't make a 90%+ dent in my POIS independently; they work together for maximum effectiveness.

As B_Jim, Counterpoints et al point out, eventually we will have a number of different treatments for different symptom-groups and perhaps by demographics.

Any other thoughts on this, please? Thanks!

I have been using a combination of Maca, Yohimbe and Fenugreek, DHEA and enzymes. in recovering from the physical damages of POIS.  I take the recommended doses. I take a small amount of Horney Goat Weed although it seems to only work as a cofactor with the others. In also added L-Carnitine about a month ago and it seemed to accelerate the healing process.   
I had an O a couple weeks ago and seemed to set recovery back a few days for muscle tightness but there were little other symptoms.
Since I began using these herbs other supplements seem  to become more effective.  I believe it is because it being delivered in a more thoroughly  to where it is needed by reducing constriction of blood vessels.        

[Finally]

Welcome Wellness
Martin => PM
Finally : great job. Which enzymes do you take ? I use bromelain and papain. 

I use Restore(Garden Of Life) which has Bromelain Papain and Proteases.  I take 2 capsules/3xday.  It was a good replacement for me for Ibuprofen without the side effects and liver damage.

I have also noticed that the peak effect for these nutrients occurs about 4-5 hours after taking them so those taking Fenugreek might want to try taking it that far before.

[demografx]

Martin, thank you for that very good Mayo Clinic article.

[Staystrong]

Demografx and B_Jim thanx. I started to feel the onset of POIS when I was about 14 when I started to notice Heart Palpitations and elevated BP after orgasm. As the years went on the symptoms became worse...... depression..... lack of energy or drive.... PE..... and generally feeling like crap. For years I tried everything..... I would search the internet endlessly and take every herb and supplement I could get my hands on...... even resulting to anabolic supplements. Nothing worked..... and about 8 years ago I develeped a pressure  that would build up in my sinuses after orgasm and doesnt go away for a week or two... sometimes weeks. I have had the pressure in my face for so long that I sometime dont notice it because it is usually allways there. It wasnt till I got out of the Navy and went to see a VA doctor that I found what I thought was Gold..... Paxil...... Paxil has diminishes my POIS symptoms by about 75% and shortens how long they last. I recently started taking Hawthorn Berry for my Heart Palpitations and they have almost disappeared and I also take Fenugreek to reduce the intensity of my orgasms which seems to help with the pressure in my head. So with all that said..... I am still not giving up and never will..... One of my life goals is to find out WTF is wrong with us all and let the medical community and the world know that this is a real problem and none of us are making this up in our heads.

[demografx]

Hyperprolactinemia

I still have very high prolactin levels. Hopefully the testosterone treatment will bring them down. I also suspect that reglan, which I take for nausea may be a culprit. Not thrilled about more medicine to treat prolactin. No apparent threat, so I'll just forget it till June's next round of bloodwork and endocrinologist visit. It's nice to have email contact with him.

[Ambient123]

Here is an interesting article i found concerning allergies and Adrenal Exhaustion

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/602417/decrease_allergy_symptoms_by_improving.html?cat=5

[martin88]

I had allergies before the first ejaculation.
I took Reglan ...

Martin, thank you for that very good Mayo Clinic article.

It would be interesting to know why he's saying this. Maybe he prefers SSRIs because he's talking about depression and fibromyalgia.

[martin88]

Demografx and B_Jim thanx. I started to feel the onset of POIS when I was about 14 when I started to notice Heart Palpitations and elevated BP after orgasm. As the years went on the symptoms became worse...... depression..... lack of energy or drive.... PE..... and generally feeling like crap. For years I tried everything..... I would search the internet endlessly and take every herb and supplement I could get my hands on...... even resulting to anabolic supplements. Nothing worked..... and about 8 years ago I develeped a pressure  that would build up in my sinuses after orgasm and doesnt go away for a week or two... sometimes weeks. I have had the pressure in my face for so long that I sometime dont notice it because it is usually allways there. It wasnt till I got out of the Navy and went to see a VA doctor that I found what I thought was Gold..... Paxil...... Paxil has diminishes my POIS symptoms by about 75% and shortens how long they last. I recently started taking Hawthorn Berry for my Heart Palpitations and they have almost disappeared and I also take Fenugreek to reduce the intensity of my orgasms which seems to help with the pressure in my head. So with all that said..... I am still not giving up and never will..... One of my life goals is to find out WTF is wrong with us all and let the medical community and the world know that this is a real problem and none of us are making this up in our heads.

Hi Staystrong, your post is great, thanks for this. Paxil is supposedly the best for PE and for bad side effects.. Hawthorn saved my life for palpitations, also in my case the first intake helps a lot for anxiety.

[wellness]

Martin 88-

I do have symptoms of POIS...mostly cognitive impairment, cracking voice and lethargy occuring about two days after orgasm. I actually feel relaxed the first day post orgasm, it's the second day post orgasmm that kicks my azz.
 I believe that in my case, POIS is directly related to attention deficet disorder. I was diagnosed with ADD about a year ago and am being treated through a type of eeg neurofeedback known as coherence training.There aren't too many neurofeedback practitioners that know how to do coherence training. I must say that I am lucky that I found a doctor nearby, because my add sypmptoms of subsided markedly, my depression has decreased SIGNIFICANTLY and symptoms of POIS have subsided...I would say about a 40% reduction. I haven't completed my neurofdbck treatment yet, so I'm hoping to see a further reduction as time goes on.
I mentioned Deprenyl as a possible drug treatment for POIS. I've spoken to some people who use this drug for anti-aging purposes(it has been known to extend the life of mice up to 40%). It is an MAO-B inhibitor which means that it targets dopamine receptors. Some men use to combat general feelings of fatigue that come with age, others to increase feelings of enthusiasm toward life.
newbielink:http://www.antiaging-systems.com/a2z/deprenyl.htm [nonactive]

I'm going to try it after I finish my neurofeedback protocol, probably sometime toward the end of August.

[demografx]

Staystrong, congratulations on your success with Paxil, Hawthorn Berry and Fenugreek!

Please keep us posted on your progress!

[demografx]

I had allergies before the first ejaculation.

I took Reglan ...

Today, I stopped taking Reglan, which for years has been very effective against my nausea. I presented the information below to my endocrinologist, and he agreed that Reglan should be stopped.

I looked up information on the Internet about my hyperprolactinemia (high prolactin) and saw that, for example according to wikipedia, "Use of prescription drugs is the most common cause of hyperprolactinaemia" and that Reglan (metoclopramide)is one of the listed drugs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperprolactinaemia

Taking Reglan may have caused my ED and low libido.

[demografx]

wellness, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!



We look forward to more of your posts.

Here are some POIS forum resources which may be helpful to you:

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send "Pyropeach" a Private Message with your regular email address and he'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, e.g., "pyropeach".

New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse


In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community.

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for over 2 years, which has attracted over 100 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 250,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!

[demografx]

I'm going to try [deprenyl] after I finish my neurofeedback protocol, probably sometime toward the end of August.

I hope you'll take it under MD supervision; I noticed a few serious warnings on the Internet, especially with high doses.

[wellness]

Thanks for the welcome Demo. I understand your concern about taking a drug w/o DR. Supervision. Unfortunately, most doctors in the US haven't even heard of Deprenyl or Stablon(Tianeptine/SSRE)for that matter. The drug, Deprenyl is manufactured in Europe and US doctors are kept in the dark by Big PHarma about such wonder drugs. US Pharmaceutical companies pretty much own the doctors in America.
I've been studying and expirimenting with supplements,nootropics and some powerful African herbs for the past 5 years. I get my blood tested regularly and chart my own health...I haven't had a cold in 4 years!!
I'm also a member of the Life Extension Organization so I can call and consult with their doctors anytime...and I do so pretty regularly.
Deprenyl is considered to be a very safe drug. Like all drugs, it has contraindications...it should not be mixed with SSRI's because it could cause seratonin syndrome.
Professor Knoll recommends that everyone should take Deprenyl in small doses from the time we are born.It preserves  nerve clusters in the basal ganglia and dopamine receptors.