[underwater]

Demografx and B_Jim thanx. I started to feel the onset of POIS when I was about 14 when I started to notice Heart Palpitations and elevated BP after orgasm. As the years went on the symptoms became worse...... depression..... lack of energy or drive.... PE..... and generally feeling like crap. For years I tried everything..... I would search the internet endlessly and take every herb and supplement I could get my hands on...... even resulting to anabolic supplements. Nothing worked..... and about 8 years ago I develeped a pressure  that would build up in my sinuses after orgasm and doesnt go away for a week or two... sometimes weeks. I have had the pressure in my face for so long that I sometime dont notice it because it is usually allways there. It wasnt till I got out of the Navy and went to see a VA doctor that I found what I thought was Gold..... Paxil...... Paxil has diminishes my POIS symptoms by about 75% and shortens how long they last. I recently started taking Hawthorn Berry for my Heart Palpitations and they have almost disappeared and I also take Fenugreek to reduce the intensity of my orgasms which seems to help with the pressure in my head. So with all that said..... I am still not giving up and never will..... One of my life goals is to find out WTF is wrong with us all and let the medical community and the world know that this is a real problem and none of us are making this up in our heads.

Staystrong---
How long have you been on Paxil? What is your dosage? Any side effects? Does Paxil help you in other ways, or does it just affect POIS? When you say it reduces the symptoms of POIS, could you be specific as to what symptoms in particular are reduced? The last time I took an SSRI was in the mid 1990's, Zoloft. I don't recall one way or the other if it helped POIS. I only took it for 1 year or so.

[underwater]

Counterpoints
I don't get physical exams shortly after orgasm, because my PSA numbers are high. They are normal if I have not had an orgasm in a while. I've known for years that I get an inflammatory response after orgasm. It is like a short term prostatitis, for lack of a better term. It sounds like we may have identical "triggers". I think a few other sufferers have mentioned this too. These triggers seem to be a cluster of 3 interconnected issues: neurochemical, neuromuscular and psychological. I think balancing/correcting the neurochemical will relax the neuromuscular and ease the psycholgical, but they are so interrelated with the nerves running thru the muscles. I have been getting some positive feedback lately from my experiments with frozen cherries from Trader Joe's. They are great for snacks and desserts. Very tasty anti-inflammatories.

[demografx]

POIS DIARY

Today is Day One, Trial #4 in 2009 (plus numerous trials in 2007-2008), and I'm still at the 90%+ cure level. Day Zero symptoms are mild and only last several hours. And Days One through Four are unbelievably POIS-free.

I find, though, that I do need to consciously curtail additional activity, because my POIS treatment of testosterone + Levitra creates urges. But I'd rather have this new problem than the miserable 30-year old one!

[Coreman]

HI DEMOGRAFX, COUNTERPOINTS,...

Firstly, it is fantastic to hear from Demografx getting over  P.O.I.S about 90%! Congratulations and respect!

Secondly, my short version of observations:

-Tribulus Terrestris (1500 mg a cap) helps me a lot the day after. No matter 2 caps makes me aggressive, it cuts out fatigue. (Lowering Prolactin, boosting Testo?)

-Tyrosine (2-3 caps / 1000 - 1500 mg) helps mostly in the end of the day, it gives me calmness and mental clarity. (precursor to dopamin, limits prolactin)

My problem:

-I've already healed many symptoms of POIS, but I still crave on refined sugar foods the day after, which I want to solve ... for obvious reasons!  I'll have a try with 5-htp (precursor to serotonin)...

Question: has anyone tried 5-htp for POIS?
I would be glad if you told me

-Interesting: cooked pasta with olive oil for breakfast (!) helps not a bit (a planned serotonin boost) to feel content

This forum helps me a lot, I wish persistance and good mood (!) to everybody 

Regards,

Coreman


 P.S:
-Alpha 20 C, discussed earlier, helps me, but not to the level I expected. It turned out to be a kinda useful supplement, but nothing more

[demografx]

HI DEMOGRAFX, COUNTERPOINTS,...

Firstly, it is fantastic to hear from Demografx getting over  P.O.I.S about 90%! Congratulations and respect!

Coreman, thanks! You and everyone here played a great role in my cure. And congratulations on your progress!

Question: has anyone tried 5-htp for POIS?

Coreman, here are 68 results of 5-htp discussion at our forum:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=5-htp+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com

After you click on a link you're interested in, use Ctrl + F with a keyword to zero in on the specific post you saw.

[Ambient123]

Hey everyone

I hamy doctors appointment today, and he has set up a Cortisol blood and urine test to determine whether or not my Adrenals are functioning properly. He feels it could be an underlying cause of my POIS

My test is on 31st, so i will report back when the test is done.

I am then due to phone my doctor the following week to discuss my results and form the necessary arrangements.

[demografx]

Ambient, congratulations on the progress and best wishes for the next step!

[martin88]

I had allergies before the first ejaculation.
I took Reglan ...

Reglan for allergies ? It seems used for stomach , what is the link with allergies ?

No link B_Jim, it was two separate comments, I was not clear  [] . I took Reglan only for nausea. It raises prolactin and is contraindicated for people with depression.

Underwater,
According to a lot of sources Paxil is good for social phobia and PE. There is more withdrawals symptoms than for other antidepressants when you stop (this info is from health canada, a government agency).
There is a good site explaining this : http://www.quitpaxil.info/Main/symptoms.htm
Like you I'd like to know more from Staystrong.

From health canada again, Celexa is the safest for the liver (less cases of problems).

Thanks Wellness for your post and information about Deprenyl. Each time someone make a report I hope we're more important for the scientific community.

[wellness]

You're welcome Martin-
I'll start taking Deprenyl in small doses starting in August--I"ll update you on how it affects my condition.
I'm trying to establish a new baseline with Neurofeedback before I start taking any drugs,nutraceuticals, or mind altering supplements/herbs.
I'm very excited about how neurofeedback coherence training has alleviated POIS symptoms. Come August, maybe I won't need the Deprenyl!

[Ambient123]

Hey everyone,

Just an update on my symptoms.

It has been nearly two weeks since my last...discharge, shall we say? . And I am noticing that some symptoms are returning, such as cloudy thinking, some fatigue, and low mood (but not depression). I feel that the adrenal theory still holds up, since it simply means that an orgasm aggravates the condition, there is a brief spell (of several days to a week) after refraining from orgasming for a week that the symptoms are "Less Noticable", only to return again after two weeks or so.

Can't wait to have this cortisol test.

One question i had for the cortisol test:

Would you recommend that i Orgasm a day or two before the test so as to have to test during the worst of my symptoms, or would you recommend that i refrain and take the test as normal?

[demografx]

Hi Ambient,

There are differing viewpoints about when to test. I tested nonsymptomatic only. But I had no particular strategy in mind, I just wanted to get moving quickly once I decided to do the testing, which was offered to me to do immediately after my first endo visit.

By testing out-of-POIS it revealed to me and endo a chronic testosterone deficiency plus hyperprolactinemia.

You also have a 3rd option: in-POIS and out-of-POIS test-comparison.

[demografx]

I have been getting some positive feedback lately from my experiments with frozen cherries from Trader Joe's. They are great for snacks and desserts. Very tasty anti-inflammatories.

Yes, cherries have a strong inflammatory effect like most of berries (anthocyanin). A study show cherries are very effective to reduce myalgias after sport. I read cherry is 10 times better than aspirin to reduce inflammation. And cherries may be rich in melatonin (for a natural source). A great natural med.

Underwater, and B_Jim, I recently discovered the following treat, cherry cordials creme kisses from Hershey. Anti-inflammatory or not: YUM! []




AND FROM B_JIM'S PRE-POIS-TREATMENT PRIVATE STASH!!>>>>>>

[demografx]

Hi B_Jim,

If I took an "adrenal fatigue" approach to my POIS, instead of testosterone deficiency, do you think my treatment might be very different?

[Counterpoints]

Ambient,
Like B_Jim, I think you should take the first test(s) when you are feeling most symptomatic.

[Counterpoints]

There may be a critical connection between testosterone and androgens and the so-called "adrenal"/cortisol approach.

I was thinking about testing an anti-androgen, to see how it affects my symptoms (and to decrease my sex drive).  So I read more about them.  And it turns out they significantly lower cortisol!. Very significantly.  This is extremely interesting.

This, together with the fact that the pituitary both regulates sex hormones and cortisol levels, suggests there may a strong adrenal/androgen connection that has escaped most people/research.

Also, the adrenals themselves produce small amounts of testosterone.

[underwater]

I've been pursuing the autoimmune thesis with a focus on histamine release at orgasm.
This essentially derives from my efforts to combat my GAD. I now suspect that my anxiety condition may find its ultimate trigger in excess histamine production.
Thus, I hope that both conditions derive from the same source. There is a lifetime of connections suggesting this - as well as my current symptoms. I have been personally observing/experimenting with histamine reduction. If I can solve GAD with this approach, I'm cautiously optimistic that it will translate to my cure of POIS. It's kind of like a unified field theory. Of course I've fallen flat in the past, and this may be an illusion. But I've gotten tiny glimmers of hope. Are any of you working on the inflammatory cause of POIS? Interesting acticle published in 2005 on Gallic Acid:
http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/91/1/123

[demografx]

Hi B_Jim,

If I took an "adrenal fatigue" approach to my POIS, instead of testosterone deficiency, do you think my treatment might be very different?

No your approach is good. I don't oppose the different hormones strategy we have suggested. All hormones are linked each other. Testosterone is probably safer and easy to use than DHEA and hydrocortisone/pregnenolone.
As CP wrote, testosterone release by adrenals too and all is down-regulated.

Thanks, B_Jim. Yes I noticed that DHEA is not the safest thing to take.

[nTonic]

Hi everyone,

It's really nice to find this forum. Having gone through some of the posts here, I realise that I'm not alone in suffering from POIS and attempting to find a solution to this problem.

I'm in my late 20s and have been suffering from POIS since I was a teenager. While my symptoms aren't as severe as other members here, it still affects my life quite a bit.

After my "release" (day zero) I don't feel anything abnormal immediately, but for the whole day after (day 1) sleep I will have headache, sore eyes, lowerback pain, general fatigue, a lack of concentration, a mild depression and a mild diarrhea. Fortunately, after that day (day 2) it goes back to normal again, until the next ejaculation.

Like a lot of the members here, I have tried many different things, like energy pills, loads of tea (as I'm not a fan of coffee), and herbs. But what has so far been effective is exercise. If I get myself to sweat on day 1, then the symptoms is lessened. I tried getting myself to sweat during sleep (by sleeping with more duvets) and it has a mild effect too. But it still bugs me as I don't sweat too easily and only vigorous sports allows me to do so.

What I also find is that my sleep after day zero is of very bad quality. Even if I've slept for 12 hours I still feel as if I have not slept for 3 days. Also, as a person who usually sleep without moving much, I often find myself waking up with my duvets all over the places on day 1 morning. I am suspecting that, in my case, something that happens in my body during the post-orgasm sleep has gone wrong, so I might try melatonin and see whether it works.

It's great to know that I'm not alone. Like many members here, I've consulted different GPs and they had no clues what is going on. So hopefully, together, we can find a way out of this POIS.

[underwater]

Since histamine triggers orgasm, perhaps some of us suffer from the unanticipated/excessive effects that histamine has on other proinflammatory neurochemicals (proteins) such as cytokines and prostaglandins. These may act like neurotransmitters throughout the central nervous system causing proinflammatory reactions in different places with different symptoms. These responses may circulate all through the HPA axis and into the spinal cord. I know that quite a few sufferers have low back pain. Some of us have burning in perineum area. Most are exhausted as if they have had a massive allergy attack. I don't recall the number of sufferers who may have itching or skin irritation. This would be VERY interesting if some of you have this? I certainly know that many sufferers have stuffed sinuses.

[demografx]

nTonic, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!



Thanks for sharing your experiences. I and others here have also experienced your symptoms, including excessive yet nonrefreshing sleep. We look forward to more of your posts.

The consensus at this forum to heal your POIS, is to start with hormonal bloodtesting, preferably with an endocrinologist.

Here are some POIS forum resources which may be helpful to you:

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send "Pyropeach" a Private Message with your regular email address and he'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, e.g., "pyropeach".

New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse


In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community.

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for over 2 years, which has attracted over 100 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 250,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!