[demografx]

MARTIN, I want to take this moment to thank you very much for your teriffic work with our Email Outreach efforts! Both the communication and contact efficiency have been greatly increased!

With no budget, we should all be very proud of our combined effort against the scourge of POIS!

Any doubts and just look back to where we ALL were when John first posted here in 2007!

MY DEEP GRATITUDE TO EVERYONE!

[demografx]

Martin, I'm doing better than you. My brain fog is ALWAYS 110%.

[demografx]

PRONOBIS, thank you very much for following up with WHO. And thank you for not giving up on the bureaucracy which can be so frustrating to deal with!

[Defsync]

alright gents, i decided on my day off to kick back with some brews and watch the Travel Channel... didnt make it to the library.... (later this week hopefully)... but as I was sitting there in my semi-drunken stupor, i did a little brainstorming.

I've always noticed after drinking milk I suffer a really minor POIS-like affect (brain fog).

Looking into milk, it contains an opiod called casomorphin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin

from the page:

"Casein has been documented to break down in the stomach to produce the peptide casomorphin, an opioid that acts as a histamine releaser."

hmmm... histamine... as I noted form the wiki histamine page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histamine

"Research has shown that histamine is released as part of the human orgasm from mast cells in the genitals."

still looking around, but have found some interesting tidbits:

"Some experts believe that individuals who may be allergic to histamines are deficient in a certain enzyme that breaks down the histamines. That deficiency, combined with alcohol, can cause headaches."

further research, that enzyme is Amine Oxidase (Copper-Containing)

whoa, what do you know, copper?

from:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/cgi/mesh/2009/MB_cgi?mode=&term=Amine+Oxidase+(Copper-Containing)

wiki page (not very informational):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amine_oxidase_(copper-containing)

also known as diaminooxidse (DAO).

Okay guys, im thinking if any1 can, see if you can get tested for DAO deficiency "Amine_oxidase_(copper-containing)"

so far I cant find too much information on DAO deficiency. im still scouring the net as I type this, I'll report more back later if I find anything else out.

okay histamine intolerance as it applies to DOA deficiency:

http://www.labmed.de/en/uploads/labmed_letters/dao-engl.pdf

now DAO seems to work mainly in teh intestines... okay then... remember Histamine N-methyltransferase is the enzyme that breaks down histamine in extra-cellular spaces.

Research studies on amitriptyline, a chemical that helps those 2 enzymes better break down histamine:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=19186701

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1J-4P7R8C6-4&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=987166214&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ed946670b1f739dbfb3f36231c8fd7f7

Turns out, this amitriptyline is a anti-depressant avilable through prescription.


okay, changing gears hear, looking at the H3 histamine receptors (responsible for neurotransmitter releases)


alpha-fluoromethylhistidine and immepip: (from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9379777)

"Depleting neuronal histamine with alpha-fluoromethylhistidine, a specific inhibitor of histidine decarboxylase, and the administration of immepip, an H3 agonist, had no effect on basal- and thioperamide-induced GABA release. In addition, an infusion of clobenpropit, the most specific H3 receptor antagonist available, did not alter the basal release of GABA. On the other hand, histamine release was decreased by immepip and increased by thioperamide and clobenpropit."

more later....

[demografx]

Interesting. Don't know if it's related, but I had trouble with milk, GI disturbance, now only drink lactose-free milk.

You might be interested in some of our previous discussions about histamines:
http://www.google.com/search?q=histamines+POIS+site:http://thenakedscientists.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

[CrazyFox]

Hi everyone.  Just found this forum and have been reading this thread for hours.  Have been suffering from POIS probably from mid-teens.  I have mostly suffered from the cognitive symptoms and lethargy.  I really should go through and read all the posts first before I post, but I am quite excited and it might take a couple days to get through all the pages of posts.  POIS has definitely affected my life, ruined relationships, and influenced my philosophical outlook.  A common pattern was for me to not be in a relationship, feeling good and confident, go "out on the hunt" for women, find one, and then it is great at first. Then when the sex gets consistent I would lose interest in being with the person, feel more and more depressed, anhedonistic, and eventually I would leave the relationship.  In retrospect, I can clearly see how it was simple biochemistry causing all this, but I really thought something was wrong with me.  I have thought a thousand times that my life would be far improved to just be celibate.  I have practiced non-orgasmic and non-ejaculative sex from the Taoist/Tantric traditions with some success, but if I don't practice the muscle control exercises with intense determination and frequency I eventually slip up and orgasm and then I fall down the hole again.  I know that if I could just not orgasm that it would be fine.   When I do successfully practice non-orgasming sex, there are unwelcome side effects including congestion in the plumbing, pain in the lower abdomen, etc. which can be somewhat abated by practicing prostate self-massage.  I don't feel back to normal for up to a week or more sometimes after I orgasm.

 I am really amazed that it is all this simple.  I found this forum by searching "Why do I feel depressed after sex?"  I used to get even more depressed when I came because I thought I was losing vital energy, as the tantric/taoist systems of thought believe.  But those beliefs also didnt make logical sense....it makes much more sense now that I have read some of this thread. 

Guess I will start by listing some of my health issues which are possibly related to POIS:

-Age 33, caucasian
-Diagnosed ADHD, social anxiety disorder, mild paranoia, mild schizophrenia, chronic mild-moderate depression since early teens and probably before.
-Lactose intolerant AND lab verified allergies to all milk products (High IgG allergic reaction to casein, cheeses, milk/goat milk, whey, yogurt; moderate IgE reaction to whey, high IgE reaction to milk and cottage cheese)
-History of chronic low back pain since mid-teens
-History of traumatic sexual experiences in childhood, early sexual experiences, shame & guilt over sexuality/masturbation during youth
-Lifelong history of insomnia
-History of poor nutrition growing up, diets high in simple carbs/sugars, excessive ratios of carbs to fat and protein
-History of poor exercise habits growing up; poor core musculature control
-Diagnosed with chronic abacterial prostatitis around age 23...still have excessive urge to urinate, wake up 1-2x/night to urinate (used to be worse)
 
Saw this chart on a few posts, will try to rate my experience, although this is hard because it varies depending on frequency of sex, nutrition habits, etc. 

Overall symptoms
-Physical tiredness : 2
-Mental tiredness: 2-3
-Lethargy/Derealisation: 3-4
-Lack of concentration/Brain fog: 2-4
-Sweating and heat feelings: 0
-Cold feelings/cold hands/cold body: 2-3
-Myalgias: ??
-Anxiety 3-5
-Depression 3-4
-Agoraphobia/Social phobia: 3-5
-Not motived: 1-5
-Memory problems: 1-3
-Difficult to speak/communication: 2-5
-Insomnias/sleep problems : 3-5
-Headaches 1-3
-Stomach aches: 0
-Restless/agitation: 2-5
-Blurred vision: 1
-Buzzing ears/tinnitus: 1-3
-Dizziness: 0
-Muscle tremors: 0-1 
-Diarrhoea: 0-2
-Hair problems: ?? lifelong dandruff
-Mouth problems:  0
-Skin problems: 0-1 dry skin
-Eyes problems: blurry vision, feeling of pressure, floaters, blue flashes of light
-Short breathing 0
-Premature Ejaculation: 0-5
-Sexual pain after sex: usually only after long or intense sessions
-Erection problems: occasionally...have slight Peyronie's disease
-Libido problems: 0-4

Very excited to try out some of the suggestions I have found so far.  Definitely going to cut the milk out as I should have long ago...has anyone else had a food allergy test?  I have been taking Wellbutrin for a few months and have noticed some mild improvement in post-orgasmic symptoms.  Also used to take Effexor and Cymbalta at various times and was able to have sex to orgasm more often. 

I am really interested in the relationship between prolactin/dopamine and finding a way to avoid extreme spikes of prolactin.  Are there any prolactin antagonists out there?

Glad to have found this site!

[hurray]

Welcome to the forum! I have tried Cabergoline which is supposed to suppress prolactin production http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabergoline without much success, however since I purchased it from an internet pharmacy I don't feel 100% confident that it was genuine medication. Would be interesting to see if other people had more success with it!

My current anti-POIS regime is 50mg of DHEA and 500mg of Solgar Fenugreek when I wake up. It helps me get out of POIS much more quickly, and really assists with the problems with socialising with others that POIS can bring about.

The newly created POIS website has a good summary of the different remedies people have found for POIS http://sites.google.com/site/poiswebsite/. Make sure you clear them with your doctor first though  []

[Finally]

"Some experts believe that individuals who may be allergic to histamines are deficient in a certain enzyme that breaks down the histamines. That deficiency, combined with alcohol, can cause headaches.

That is interesting, beause I developped an intolerance to alcohol where the symptoms were very similar to POIS especially the pain in neck and shoulders.

[Pronobis]

That is interesting, beause I developped an intolerance to alcohol where the symptoms were very similar to POIS especially the pain in neck and shoulders.

Same with me

Welcome CrazyFox

[demografx]

CrazyFox, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!




Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:

Our new POIS Information Website is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/poiswebsite/

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send me a Private Message with your regular email address and I'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around my name, i.e., "demografx".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community. This can help fight the immediate reaction of some: IT'S NOT "ALL IN OUR HEADS"!

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for over 2 years, which has attracted over 100 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 350,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!

[demografx]

CrazyFox, this post might help you find information about POIS that we have already discussed, by tailoring a Google search to this forum:


SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: over 2 years' worth of posts from 150+ Forum members, and an additional 150 POIS sufferers found on the Internet, but not on this forum.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
demografx POIS site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

and 1,000+ results came up for "demografx" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.

[demografx]

B_Jim, would my high glucose relate to your findings? This blueberry treatment has given me Blueberry Craving Syndrome!!

[wooder]

Hello my fellow POIS patients. I live in South Africa and masturbated a lot since age 9, and by age 12 it really became a problem. I had a lot of acne, and after ejaculation will have an almost oily skin texture. I was an athlete and found that orgasms also made me tired and short of breath. I became sexually active with partners at age 19.

I could not keep up with the demands of my girlfriends, and could never understand when I read in magazines that some couples do it a few times a day and a few days a week, plus they are feeling great.

I also did a lot of research, and found it has to do with hormonal imbalances.

Specifically the deficiency of DHEA is causing the problems. I found that by taking 50mg of DHEA after sex, and also a protein supplement called L-Tyrosine in the mornings, significantly reduces the symptoms.

Please consult your doctors about this, try it for yourselves and get back to me.

You will find that DHEA production is at its peak during puberty (when we start to masturbate), and decline rapidly after age 20 (when we really feel the effects of POIS).

I assume ejaculation / orgasm has something to do with blocking DHEA.

Cheers and good luck!

DHEA

what chemical is that exactly

[demografx]

DHEA
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dhea/NS_patient-dhea

wooder, care to tell us about your POIS?

[CrazyFox]

Thanks for the welcome everyone.

Saw that one potential issue in POIS is overproduction of cortisol...if that is the case, some of you may be interested in this product:

https://www.emersonecologics.com/Products/EmersonMain/PID-CM30.aspx [nofollow]

C

[CrazyFox]

I remember reading somewhere that orgasm leads to a downregulation of testosterone receptors in the brain and conversely that going without orgasm will lead to an upregulation in testosterone receptors.  Testosterone not only controls libido and sexual appetite, it also can create feelings of positive mood state and confidence.  Keep in mind that if the receptors in the brain are downregulated, you can have normal testosterone levels in the blood, but the testosterone will not bind to the receptors in the brain, thus you wont feel as happy.....bodybuilders who use large amounts of testosterone related substances often become addicted to the high, this is quite verified in the literature.

Given this, I think it is simply imperative not to orgasm frequently as a general rule for most people.  People have known this for thousands of years in cultured all over the world.  Look up 'Karezza' and similar practices.

I see some people in this site who are looking for a chemical or herbal fix to the problem of POIS, but keep in mind that you have to work on all fronts and not just look for the quick fix.  If you dont have the control not to orgasm, then you must gain it by  exercising the musculature that controls the penis.  It is a simple thing to do when you are driving, sitting, lying down, etc.  There are plenty of descriptions of the types of exercises on the internet.  I once did the practices solidly for 3-4 months and I did certainly gain the ability to have sex for hours and I only came when I decided to - they work and there is no doubt about it in my mind.  The only downfall I noticed was congestion in the prostate and probably the vas deferens.  Self prostate massage worked well for this. 

[GoingCrazy]

Hello.  Just checking in.  I NE'd last night and that NE just reminded me that I have POIS.  I was in a terrible mood all day, and had to work at a wedding for 11 hours off of 4 hours of sleep.  Possibly the worst day of my life.

I want to know if anybody experiencing POIS symptoms without orgasm but just with little sleep.

I thought my candida cure had worked... but sadly not yet.  Come to think of it I still am eating as many sugars as I did a while ago.  Maybe I should stop that.

Also,  John21,  are you still non-POiS ?

[John21 (OP)]

GC

Also,  John21,  are you still non-POiS

Yes, I have had more NEs and still zero symptoms. I'm still eating my yogurt/blueberry/cranberry treat daily. I still don't know what is helping me but something in that mix is my best guess.

I have been experimenting with fish oils to help with anxiety, hoping to chip away at sleep issues. So far my mood has improved but sleep hasn't been affected. I have also tried Rhodiola, which was recently mentioned on the forum. It definitely has a relaxing psychoactive effect, although with my sleep issue I have to be careful with any substance, I plan on experimenting more with small amounts of it over time. The brand is Natural Factors 150mg (3.5% total rosavin).

[GoingCrazy]

Anything else for your dietary changes? Are you not eating sugar? on some sort of diet?  Changed sleeping habits?

[GoingCrazy]

Yet again I just O'd at 7 o'clock,  felt POIS, slept until 12 and then O'd and experienced no POIS.  I noticed in between I felt a "good" feeling in my head, as the POIS was going away.  Maybe that is something to think about.