[demografx]

I've had some great results using a US-brand of Rhodiola (Mind Body & Spirit). I combine it with an adaptogens blend called ENERGY RESERVES, which works great to supplement the Rhodiola.

JonJen, congrats!

Can you please tell us more about how Rhodiola affected your POIS? (Before and after would be nice)

[PRZ]

Hi guys! I'm new here and would like to share my opinion which is probably quite unique.

It's a great thing that such forum exist. It's an amazing contribution not only to solving POIS problem but also to expanding knowledge about sexuality of men, which in my opinion is still very poor around the world

(Please forgive me if I use some wrong words, I'm from Europe and my English may not be perfect. Hope you understand me)

Anyway, here's my background.

I'm now 23. I think I started masturbating very early. Not sure what age exactly but probably somewhere around 8-9. I remember first time I accidentally saw some "Playboy" in TV and it happened. What is important, I didn't have to touch myself at all. There was unintended erection and feeling of powerful orgasm, much longer than ones I have later. And the most important thing - THERE WAS NO EJACULATION. Not even a small leak of sperm. And obviously no POIS at that time. I loved the energizing feeling so much that I became addicted to masturbation.

I did it almost every day and for some time there was still great orgasm and no ejaculation at all. I think after few years I began to notice a small leak of liquid in my underwear. I don't even know if it was pre-ejaculatory fluid or sperm. Anyway, it was a time when I started to talk about this with my buddies and everyone was talking about how he do it and how great the final spurt is. So I began to masturbate in a common way. Always ending with ejaculation. For several years till about few months ago.

What I remember about first years of ejaculatory orgasms is that I could do it three times a day and still have enough energy to go and play basketball till the evening. No POIS symptoms. Throughout the years I gradually start to notice change in energy level after masturbation. Little by little, it was getting worse. But still I couldn't grasp what was really going on. When I was 17 I started training martial arts and fighting in the competitions. It was stressful for me so I masturbated every time day before competing. I wanted to feel more relaxed. And I was losing many times with very poor style of fighting. Of course, masturbation wasn't the only cause but I'm pretty sure that I was capable of much more.

When I reached 19-20 it was already hardcore. I became much more introverted, very sleepy all the time, not focused etc. Brain fog, tiredness, poor complexion. All POIS symptoms were there. And it was still getting worse. Until last winter when I reached level, which can be described as "nightmare".

I must have been so blind. Still I wasn't connecting masturbation and symptoms. I thought it was all in my head. That it's just the way I am. Truth is, I always thought that I'm addicted to masturbation (I couldn't stop doing it for a longer time that would show me the difference) and that there was some powerful feeling of guilt involved. Not only I felt terrible but I didn't accept myself and my sexuality. And winter 2008 came. Daily masturbation was there and I was lying on my bed all day. No motivation to do simple things in my life. Even struggling to go and do a meal for myself. I was sick very often. Then I started to have severe headaches and many sleepless nights since I was weak and very anxious. I tried to work out more, but no progress and no motivation to do it next time. I don't know what would happen if I didn't get myself together.

But something hit me. Last effort to get my life back. Except masturbation I always thought I have a strong will. I didn't do alcohol, drugs or cigarettes. I didn't think I need a strong will for masturbation. I didn't even try abstinence since everyone was saying it's so healthy. But I just wanted to get rid of the guilt and feeling of being enslaved. I wanted to achieve at least as much. "Maybe I'm not like everyone else and can't masturbate or have sex as often as I want". Actually this statement it's true, but it's not about sex or masturbation. IT'S ALL ABOUT EJACULATION

Many of you probably feel where I'm going with this but please don't stop reading since results of my efforts are mind-blowing.

My first challenge was one month without masturbation. Without touching myself, watching porn, looking at sexy girls on the street.
It was tough. I was very horny and got myself to the point where the need to do this was so powerful that I decieved myself. It was after probably two weeks when I looked at porn, thinking that I will just look, don't touch myslef. Yeah right. It was the hardest errection I've ever had till then. My first realization was that almost every time I touch myslef I reach powerful pleasure. Not like in a low quality daily masturbation when you only feel good few second before and during the ejaculation. Still it wasn't feeling that gave me satisfaction. I still thought I need ejaculation. Somehow I managed to win the temptation. Porbably one of the biggest in my life and I was very proud of this. During this month level of my energy increased significantly. I only need to sleep 6-7 hours a day (before it was 10-13). I became out-going, talkative. No problems with complexion. No POIS symptoms at all. There was one problem. This underlying anxiousness. Like sometimes I wanted satisfaction so much, I didn't know what to do with myself.

Total abstinence wasn't the solution. I tried to do it as rarely as possible. But I lost so many times. And those of you who tried it probably know that if you ejaculate after long time of abstinence, the next day you are even more horny. Of course, POIS symptoms are back and very overwhelming, but doesn't stop you from wanting to do this again, which result in even more terrible feeling.

So it was a time of struggle. Week or more of normal life followed by week of POIS symptoms. Until I found the book "The Multi-Orgasmic Man" by Mantak Chia. I advise no to judge this book and methods presented there before reading it and trying it by yourself. Actually I ask you to do this with an open mind, because I'm sure that it can help many people here. It not only helped me but changed my whole view of sexuality of men.

I'm not some kind of a religious yoga-maniac who try to promote this book. I just tried it out of curiosity, being very sceptical just like many of you probably are. I'm pretty amazed it's not so popular since the results for me are mind-blowing. I think the reason why many people think it's useless is not being persistent enough with the practice.

The main idea of the book is that EJACULATION IS NOT THE SAME AS ORGASM. We are conditioned by society, doctors etc. to believe that we can only release sexual tension through ejaculation. Our bodies are programmed through masturbation and porn to achieve satisfaction only after release of the sperm. It's simply not true.

Ater 3 months of practice, I just hate ejaculation. I don't need it. I don't want it. Now, I don't even see a reason why a man should ejaculate if most of the time he doesn't have a purpose to impregnate woman. We are not the primitive man whose main purpose was spreading the seed. We are looking for pleasure. And IT'S EJACULATION THAT CAUSES THE POIS SYMPTOMS, NOT ORGASM. Try it and you will see.

I agree that it's unhealthy not to release sexual tention. That's what most people probably think about this stuff. Even on this site ( newbielink:http://sites.google.com/site/poiswebsite/test-page/successful-methods/masturbation-without-ejaculation [nonactive]) it is said that masturbation without ejaculation involves sexual stimulation until just before achieving orgasm. It's not what it is about. You can achieve orgasm without ejaculation and without POIS symptoms and, guys believe me, IT'S SUCH A POWERFUL FEELING. MUCH LONGER AND MUCH BETTER than typical ejaculatory orgasm. And MUCH MORE SATISFYING. That's why I don't even think about ejaculating right now. All it gives me is a mess, terrible feeling, all POIS symptoms and yes, few seconds of good orgasm but nothing compared to what I'm telling you about.

Let me explain how it feels. It's like someone would put electricity through your body. Every touch of your penis gives you pleasure, which strength can be compared to normal ejaculatory orgasm, until you reach a level of much greater pleasure. Sometimes it's so powerful I just have to scream like a woman. I begin to think that the same way woman feel orgasm. Not the short pleasure but more like a slowly builidng and then flowing pleasure. And after that you feel satisfied (no overwhelming need to achieve next orgasm) but you stay energised and still have healthy appetite for sex. I don't know what really happen to sperm during this but it feels like it's released through your whole body (in book i think they call it ejaculating up the spine). Therefore the feeling of great relaxation after this kind of orgasm. Since I feel great physically and mentally I don't think there's anything unhealthy goin on in my body.

I tell you, ejaculation control is a powerful thing. It has been three months since I had the last full ejaculation. Since then I'm in a great shape. Mentally and phsyically. I'm going regulary to the gym and gainend 10 kg of muscles. No problems with complexion. This season I played in one basketball match and scored more points than the whole previous season. I feel stronger mentally (no more changing moods), more focused, more active, more creative. I feel like I overcome the biggest problem in my life. Also I masturbate regulary (the way I explained), every one or two days. It's much more fulfilling and I totally embraced my sexuality. Month ago I lost my virginity and we had sex for almost two hours. Powerful orgasms and no ejaculation, but I must say it's more difficult to control it in real sex. Anyway, I saw it in her eyes that she had amazing experience. I'm in great sexual shape (when I masturbate I can mantain erection for 4 hours - no joking). I feel more confident socially and with women.

I know it almost sounds like a fairy tale. Some kind of magic. But that's how it really is for me. Perfect solution. Also for every guy out there who wants to be in a great sexual shape. And especially for people with POIS. But it requires some disciplined and persistent practice. Many times in the beginning I didn't manage to stop ejaculation. There was POIS symptoms and therefore discouragement. But it was worth it and I finally learned how to do this properly.

I have many deeper thoughts about this. For example, I think everyone to some extent have POIS symptoms. I talk to many of my friends and nobody feels energised after ejaculation. Rather empty. Some for few minutes. Some for days and days. If one of our main purposes in life is reproduction then it seems logical that every release of semen force us to grow old faster (since the purpose is fulfilled). Hence the symptoms.

I'm really curious what do you think about it and if you're interested in the topic I will be glad to share few advices on starting this practice to achieve desired results faster.

      

    

        

    

[John21 (OP)]

PRZ,
So how do you orgasm without ejaculation? What technique do you practice to achieve this? ... sounds bizarre, like learning to breathe without oxygen.

[demografx]

PRZ, congratulations on avoiding POIS with Mantak Chia's program. I followed him for years and read his books and spoke to him and his asst several times, in NY and Thailand. I worked on it for years, with great hopes, yet...no success in the end.

It didn't work for me. I did succeed, after incredible effort, in "avoiding ejaculation", as you described, but I still experienced FULL-BLOWN POIS.

You said yourself that you don't know where the sperm goes (I read all about "ejaculating up the spine" and believe it's really nonsense).

I'll tell you where the sperm goes. At orgasm,, it simply gets diverted to the bladder, and empties out at the very next urination. It LOOKS like there's no ejaculation, but there most definitely is.

After only 3 months' testing, PRZ, I caution you to be very careful about the placebo effect. I've had a placebo effect with some treatment for a long time. I have looked at just about every serious anti-POIS method for the last 30 years.

PRZ, you are most welcome here, but since your very first post here was about a "POIS method that works", that does trigger concerns about a promotional agenda surrounding Mantak Chia's products and services. That is forbidden here by the owners of Naked Science Forum.

I apologize in advance if this is not a promotional agenda, but as I mentioned, this has been our experience with many, BUT NOT ALL, first time posters who express great enthusiasm about a product or service that "works".

On another note, some of us  believe that the "feel good" chemicals at orgasm (with or without ejaculation, if in fact that's really possible) trigger chemical reactions that create POIS.

We have found that there are many forms of POIS. Perhaps your method applies well to your case, though honestly, I would still want to know where the sperm goes, I.e., how do you REALLY avoid ejaculation?

Would you like to learn more about what WE have learned over the last 3 years? My welcome letter contains much of the resources we have. In the past, those with a promotional agenda showed no interest in exchanging information, only interest in their specific form of "success".

Again, my apologies, if my concerns are unjustified.

[demografx]

"Vana"

Some, or all, of you may have received a Private Message from "Vana", who signs her name, "Niki", and quotes a "Hilary Putnam".

She asks that you join her philosophy discussion group.

I discussed this with other Naked Science Forum moderators, and it was agreed that she should be banned, as I did yesterday.

In the interest of unbiased scientific discussion, promoting an agenda, or "spamming", is forbidden at Naked Science Forum, whether by forum posting or Private Messaging.

Further, when I asked "Vana" questions, all I got was deceptive, untruthful replies.

[europe]

Hello guys.

I have POIS for a long time now.
I found your topic after a (lucky) web search.
I was happy to see that those sympthoms could have a medical explanation , and instantly I was curious to see if there is a efficient cure. But, .... not really .

I will read all the pages and links and I will write again.

Till then,
Regards.

[PRZ]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I don't know how to convince you that it's not a promotional agenda. I'm from Poland and don't know the author personally. Never met him. All I want to promote is method that not only helped me get over POIS but gave my life a whole new quality. Anyway, I won't mention any titles again

When it comes to your resources I didn't receive a welcome letter. I have much respect for all your work and I love the fact that there is a place like this and also this whole effort to make knowledge about POIS more common. I didn't try any medicine treatment I read about in this discussion since most of them are not accessible in my country. I was thinking about buying Relora from my friend abroad in case I accidentaly ejaculate and have to deal with this terrible condition again.

What I gain from this discussion is knowledge about the hormones and the fact that what you actually feel after ejaculation is anxiety. When I had sleepless nights becasue of POIS I always thought I'm too relaxed. It's like I misinterpret the feeling because of general weakness. I also have a friend who doesn't have POIS but claims that every time he ejaculate he is easily irritated by little things for a day or two. The fact that most of the medicine you wrote about is making you calm, less nervous made me think. I recognised that it's really anxiety and what's more important that you can be anxious while being low energy (very bad shape) and also you can be very relaxed being high energy (very good shape).

Anyway, if you want me to stop writing more about the method I learned, well just let me still have my account so that I can answer private messages for those who are intrested.

Demografx, I'm quite suprised with your results of this practice. Did you really achieve orgasm without ejaculation? Because I have a hard time believing that you did and now still orgasm through ejaculation. The quality of non-ejaculatory orgasm is so much better that even if I still would have POIS symptoms, I wouldn't ejaculate at all. Maybe you did it in a different way than me. Since you work with the guy, I can't argue. Maybe there really are different kinds of POIS. Anyway, for me POIS was always connected with release of the sperm. ALWAYS. And probably I'm not the only one. Personally I don't believe in ejaculating up the spine either. But I'm pretty sure the sperm doesn't go to my bladder since I urinate always after practice and don't have any bad symptoms. I would really like to know what is happening to sperm. All I can say is I trust my intuition that there's nothing bad going on. I feel healthy. No pain, no blue balls, no anxiousness. I can't guarantee that there are no bad long term effects for example. But to be honest I don't see any other way for me. Quality of my life with POIS was so bad that I don't want to feel it ever again. Though I will probably have to if I want to have children in the future which I do. Also, I did some research on the web and found some statements of people without PIOS and not connected with the book who haven't ejaculate for years, being in great shape and encourage the ejaculation control.  

And one thing I'm 100% sure. It's not placebo effect. Yes, it's only three months but preceded by periods of ejaculating and not ejaculating. The difference is like heaven and hell. I said in my previous post that my whole journey with this problem was about "It's all in my head". And know I'm sure it's not. All the results in my life I wrote about are true. Let me describe the difference more clearly.

This is how I feel when I fully ejaculate:
- extreme brain fog
- tiredness
- lack of focus
- anxiousness
- blushing
- changing temperature of body
- no motivation for even simple tasks
- no motivation for social meetings
- need to sleep for 10-13 h
- changing moods
- feeling of emptiness
- poor complexion (few days after one strong ejaculation or few of them I always have a nasty pimple on my face)
- problems with hygiene of penis (bad smell for few days)

And the main difference I see is a result in my sport performance. Especially at the gym. My result in bench pressing when I'm in good shape is 60 kg, 6 repetitions in last 4th serie. I love excersising at the gym and my mental approach is that I always want to press as much as I can. When I was still learning to control ejaculation and didn't manage to avoid it, day after ejaculation I only manage to do 1-2 repetitions. For those who go to the gym, you understand the difference. It's clearly not in my head. Also I mentonied my baksteball performance which is all true.

All these symptoms after the ejaculation lasts for about two weeks. Then I reach some kind of normal shape but nothing compared to shape when I masturbate without ejaculation.

Also when I was during the process of learning this it happened few times that I didn't manage to avoid ejaculation but also I didn't have full ejaculation. Kind of very disturbing feeling because the urge to ejaculate fully was very strong. But knowing how bad symptoms can be and being commited to learn this I just stopped touching myself. What's interesting that POIS symptoms were also there but not for so long and not so strong. Like after 2 days I regain balance. So it's obvious that POIS symptoms for me are all about how often and how strong I ejaculate.

When I don't ejaculate at all the best way to describe the feeling is being full of life. Complete opposite of the symptoms I wrote. For 3 months I didn't even have a small pimple on my face. And there wasn't a single night were I slept more than 8 hours. Also because I feel sexually satisfied there's no nocturnal emission, which happened before when I wasn't releasing sexual tension in any way. If it's placebo and all in my head, then it would really have to be some extremely strong belief which I'm sure is not.

Now, answering John21 question. Achieving orgasm without ejaculation is all about balancing on the edge of ejaculation. Beacuse your body is conditioned to experience both of them together. When you practice, your aim is to grasp the feeling of orgasm (overwhelming release of dopamine with no POIS symptoms) before ejaculation. In the beginning it's like, one more touch and I'm done. That's why it's not easy. It requires fighting the urge and temptation, but after some time your body is slowly reprogrammed to seperate orgasm and ejaculation. This way you are able to reach full satisfaction without release of semen. It's the short description.

Demografx, let me know if I can write more details on how to begin the process and how I did it step by step.

It would be great to see anyone progress with this





 
  

[demografx]

PRZ, and europe, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum and thank you for your very kind words of introduction!




Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:

Our new POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send me a Private Message with your regular email address (use "AT" instead of "@" ) and I'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around my name, i.e., "demografx".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community. This can help fight the immediate reaction of some: IT'S NOT "ALL IN OUR HEADS"!

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for nearly 3 years, which has attracted over 150 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus nearly 500,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!

[demografx]

PRZ, and europe, this post will help you find information about POIS that we have already discussed, by tailoring a Google search to this forum:


SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: over 2 years' worth of posts from 150+ Forum members, and an additional 150 POIS sufferers found on the Internet, but not on this forum.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
demografx POIS site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

and 1,000+ results came up for "demografx" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.

[demografx]

Demografx, I'm quite suprised with your results of this practice. Did you really achieve orgasm without ejaculation?

That was the promise, and it certainly looked like one without the other (it was "dry"), but it turned out to simply be a fluid diversion to the bladder. I used Mantak Chia's method on Page 120:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2656200/Mantak-Chia-Taoist-Secrets-Of-Love-Cultivating-the-Male-Sexual-Energy

Demografx, let me know if I can write more details on how to begin the process and how I did it step by step.

Please do. Your second post was reassuring. Thank you.

[demografx]

All I want to promote is method that not only helped me get over POIS but gave my life a whole new quality.

Can you please explain why you want to do this?

[mellivora]

Hi,
I mentioned a while back that I had an appointment with an endocrionologist. What I really went there hoping to do was to establish a working relationship with the endo so that we could do a series of tests including before and after orgasm and try to detect anything unusual. At first the consultant seemed like he was up for helping in this way but unfortunately, after conversing with a senior consultant, the verdict was that, at least on state-funded healthcare as this was, there wasn’t much they could do. Infact, the senior consultant came in and told me quite bluntly she thought its just something I have to live with. (I was a little riled by her manner on this but stuck to polite conversation!) She didn’t believe before and after tests would help saying there are too many things we don’t know about what goes on. I can see some sense in that perhaps but still believe the tests are worth doing if only to rule out detectable abnormalities. I have a respect for medical doctors but one should remember that in most cases they are not scientists in the sense of proposing a hypothesis and then testing it experimentally.

However, they did in the end give me some tests even if they are not before/after tests. I don’t know the details of all of them (the doctor’s writing on the lab form was too illegible!) but I know they included another batch of more comprehensive thyroid tests, sugar levels and urine tests for catecholamines amongst other things. I’ll pass on the details of anything significant.

In my last lot of tests that I mentioned on the forum, everything was normal except my LH was “slightly low”. I’ve now seen the actual measurements (normal ranges in brackets). These tests were done whilst feeling well (non-POIS).

FSH 2.2 IU/L (<6.0)
LH 1.8 IU/L (2-12)
PL 79 mIU/L (<700)
SHBG 42 nmol/L (10-71)
T 20.9 nmol/L (10-35)
Cortisol 687 nmol/L (138-690)

My endo said cortisol was normal. Well if you ask me its pretty close to being a bit high. An increase in my cortisol of less than half of 1 per cent would have put me out of range which  leads me to believe it might be worth retesting. Having said that I’ve had a slightly stressful time lately workwise and otherwise so that might have pushed it up a bit.There’s been a bit of discussion on the forum about the practical usefulness of the normal ranges when readings are near their extremes. I’ve read some of the normal ranges seem to be based on a sample size of around 200 people.
I did ask about the possibility of pituitary adenoma - counterpoints and others here found they have one - but the consultant wouldn't entertain the possibility saying I'd be ill all the time if I had one - not sure about that...
I’ve come away from my endocrinologist visit thinking that I really need to put more effort into helping to get some research funded. I think it is our best chance of narrowing down the cause of our illness and linking together our shared experiences. I hope to put more time into finding suitable researchers. In the meantime I wait for my latest results and go from there.
Happy thanksgiving to all those who are celebrating it.

[PRZ]

 Hi! It's me again

Can you please explain why you want to do this?

 First of all, I want to share my glory. The joy of overcoming this problem is great. I feel like I got back to life. Few days ago thinking about this journey I said to myself "Why not share it?". I have a feeling that are many people who are similar to me when it comes to POIS. I hope it can help them. If it would be only one person. Well, still cool. Since it would feel like saving someones life. I'm not some kind of "Mother Theresa" type of man. I'm pretty sure that there are people who suffer from this longer than me and the consequences are much worse, so knowing that they achieve the same results would be great. It would also be a significant contribution to solving the problem of POIS.

I understand that most of you are very sceptical. I'm cool with it. I remember myself having quite similar approach. The only thing that convinced me in the beginning was my memory of having "dry" orgasms as a kid. I thought that maybe if I could do this back then , I can do this now without suffering from bad symptoms.

That was the promise, and it certainly looked like one without the other (it was "dry"), but it turned out to simply be a fluid diversion to the bladder. I used Mantak Chia's method on Page 120:
newbielink:http://www.scribd.com/doc/2656200/Mantak-Chia-Taoist-Secrets-Of-Love-Cultivating-the-Male-Sexual-Energy [nonactive]

 

This is something new for me. I read different one. Never heard about the method from page 120. I went through it briefly and it seems like there are some similarities. Anyway, in my next post I will finally present my own guide of this practice. I would like it to be as detailed as it can be.

[JonJen99]

I've had some great results using a US-brand of Rhodiola (Mind Body & Spirit). I combine it with an adaptogens blend called ENERGY RESERVES, which works great to supplement the Rhodiola.

JonJen, congrats!

Can you please tell us more about how Rhodiola affected your POIS? (Before and after would be nice)

Before: my POIS actually made me afraid to have sex. I didn't want what would happen afterwards. I became an expert in the intercourse part, and always faked (yes, I am sure others do this) the orgasm part and put it away without actually having the joy of it. I tried Rhodiola and some other herbs before, with no result. Then, I changed brands and bought something more expensive that I had read about. Ten days or two weeks later I went "all the way" and found that I wasn't getting the same POIS reactions afterwards. I was actually recovering in an hour or two. While I still have some very big issues to work out, I am more confident now as well. And I believe that the herb has also increased my desire. I thought that was a bad side effect at first, but with diminished POIS, desire is not a bad thing.

[Pablo445]

That was the promise, and it certainly looked like one without the other (it was "dry"), but it turned out to simply be a fluid diversion to the bladder. I used Mantak Chia's method on Page 120:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2656200/Mantak-Chia-Taoist-Secrets-Of-Love-Cultivating-the-Male-Sexual-Energy

I'll write more about my positive and negative experience with this type of technique later when I have time but for now I just want to mention the issue of retrograde ejaculation (ejaculating backward in the bladder) is discussed on page 24 / 25 of "The Multi Orgasmic Man". Basically it explains that if this happens you are not doing it properly but it has no negative consequences any more than a regular ejaculation (which for us POIS sufferer is already dramatic). You know this happened because you lose your erection after a retrograde ejaculation (like with a regular ejaculation for most people) and also you can notice cloudy urine afterwards (filled with sperm from the bladder). It is just an ejaculation like the regular one with all its negative consequences.  If the orgasm is reached without ejaculation (retrograde or otherwise), the erection is not lost at all, rather it reaches its maximum potential and of course there is no sperm in the bladder since there is no ejaculation. Keeping the erection for as long as desired is what allows for "multi orgasm".

I have practiced this technique for about 7 years in the 80s (largely from a book called "The Tao of Sex"), ejaculating about once or twice a month but having sex few times every day with great success but I was not suffering from POIS at that time so I cannot really say if that would help a POIS sufferer or not.  For me my POIS symptoms started after a huge emotional life shock (I cannot give details and it would not be useful to anyone). But I felt totally depleted after that terrible situation which lasted for a long time. I started being ill, depressed, tired, unhappy... I also lost my ability to not ejaculate, I started having burning urination, and POIS became almost permanent. In my case I strongly believe the cause of my issue has to do with the horrible "burn out" I experienced and how I have not been able to replenish my energy completely ever since. Now one single ejaculation (which I can no longer control properly) empties my life energy and spirit in a very profound and indescribable way (like many of you can understand). But if this technique can help someone, I just want to say it is a possibility for sure - not just a fantasy. The challenge for a POIS sufferer is that at the beginning it is common to "fail" and ejaculate before we become successful. It took me few months before I could consistently control the ejaculation. But during these 2 months I did lose of lot of ejaculate - that would be unthinkable right now.

For the record, I have no connection whatsoever with any person or organization promoting any of these techniques. And I don't sell books either :-)

[greg44]

hi, i'm new here. Found this site searching google. Wondering if my symptoms sound like POIS?

After orgasm my entire nervous system goes to chit. It takes 2 weeks of no sex for me to recover from these symptoms.

Feel very cold a couple min after orgasm, later on I feel strange fluctiating hot & cold spots all over.
Body feels heavy & legs feel weak, get muscle spasm in hamstring, pins & needles in feet
Neck gets very tight & has lots of muscle spasms
Lower back very sore, feel constant vibrating spasm very rapid but not forceful
My throat restricts and find it more difficult to breathe
get random sharp pains a couple times a day feels like sudden shock of electricity
Hyper sensitive to sound, & touch. For example if I bump into something unexpectedly my body jolts very severely.
Get horrible sinking feeling in chest which feels like the start of a panic attack
Can't think properly, brain fog, mind racing ect
Emotionally I feel very depressed and regret having orgasm
All of the above symptoms start out mild in the morning and get worse towards the evening
When I first started experiencing symptoms I experienced my first panic attack which then spiraled out of control into more panic attacks. Only when I accepted I was screwed and gave up doing anything was I able to recover.
 
Basically, I've given up on sex now. It's not worth it, the cost is to great.

[CertainlyPOIS]

I've had some great results using a US-brand of Rhodiola (Mind Body & Spirit). I combine it with an adaptogens blend called ENERGY RESERVES, which works great to supplement the Rhodiola.

JonJen, congrats!

Can you please tell us more about how Rhodiola affected your POIS? (Before and after would be nice)

Before: my POIS actually made me afraid to have sex. I didn't want what would happen afterwards. I became an expert in the intercourse part, and always faked (yes, I am sure others do this) the orgasm part and put it away without actually having the joy of it. I tried Rhodiola and some other herbs before, with no result. Then, I changed brands and bought something more expensive that I had read about. Ten days or two weeks later I went "all the way" and found that I wasn't getting the same POIS reactions afterwards. I was actually recovering in an hour or two. While I still have some very big issues to work out, I am more confident now as well. And I believe that the herb has also increased my desire. I thought that was a bad side effect at first, but with diminished POIS, desire is not a bad thing.

what is the name of the company you switched and what is list of herb you use. The you use any particular adaptogen.

[CertainlyPOIS]

Hi,
I mentioned a while back that I had an appointment with an endocrionologist. What I really went there hoping to do was to establish a working relationship with the endo so that we could do a series of tests including before and after orgasm and try to detect anything unusual. At first the consultant seemed like he was up for helping in this way but unfortunately, after conversing with a senior consultant, the verdict was that, at least on state-funded healthcare as this was, there wasn’t much they could do. Infact, the senior consultant came in and told me quite bluntly she thought its just something I have to live with. (I was a little riled by her manner on this but stuck to polite conversation!) She didn’t believe before and after tests would help saying there are too many things we don’t know about what goes on. I can see some sense in that perhaps but still believe the tests are worth doing if only to rule out detectable abnormalities. I have a respect for medical doctors but one should remember that in most cases they are not scientists in the sense of proposing a hypothesis and then testing it experimentally.

However, they did in the end give me some tests even if they are not before/after tests. I don’t know the details of all of them (the doctor’s writing on the lab form was too illegible!) but I know they included another batch of more comprehensive thyroid tests, sugar levels and urine tests for catecholamines amongst other things. I’ll pass on the details of anything significant.

In my last lot of tests that I mentioned on the forum, everything was normal except my LH was “slightly low”. I’ve now seen the actual measurements (normal ranges in brackets). These tests were done whilst feeling well (non-POIS).

FSH 2.2 IU/L (<6.0)
LH 1.8 IU/L (2-12)
PL 79 mIU/L (<700)
SHBG 42 nmol/L (10-71)
T 20.9 nmol/L (10-35)
Cortisol 687 nmol/L (138-690)

My endo said cortisol was normal. Well if you ask me its pretty close to being a bit high. An increase in my cortisol of less than half of 1 per cent would have put me out of range which  leads me to believe it might be worth retesting. Having said that I’ve had a slightly stressful time lately workwise and otherwise so that might have pushed it up a bit.There’s been a bit of discussion on the forum about the practical usefulness of the normal ranges when readings are near their extremes. I’ve read some of the normal ranges seem to be based on a sample size of around 200 people.
I did ask about the possibility of pituitary adenoma - counterpoints and others here found they have one - but the consultant wouldn't entertain the possibility saying I'd be ill all the time if I had one - not sure about that...
I’ve come away from my endocrinologist visit thinking that I really need to put more effort into helping to get some research funded. I think it is our best chance of narrowing down the cause of our illness and linking together our shared experiences. I hope to put more time into finding suitable researchers. In the meantime I wait for my latest results and go from there.
Happy thanksgiving to all those who are celebrating it.

I think you should try doing testosterone too when you in pois, my lh is not as low as yours but in lower bracket. In pois my testosterone is way lower than recovery stage.

[PRZ]

Hey Pablo445

Thanks for your post! Maybe it will convince anyone just to try it since you admit that orgasming without ejaculation it's not some bizarre fantasy. Thanks for bringing the information about retrograde ejaculation. I totally forgot it was covered by the book. I went through it and there is an explanation what is going on with the sperm when you do it right!

"WHERE DOES THE SEMEN GO WHEN I DON'T EJACULATE? The semen is broken down and reabsorbed by the body, just as the sperm are reabsorbed in a man who has had a vasectomy. However, the effects of the Taoist techniques on the body are very different from those of a vasectomy. With a vasectomy, the vas deferens is cut just above the testicles and the sperm have nowhere to go. They are eventually reabsorbed, but many men complain about feeling congestion in the testicles and pelvis. If you have had a vasectomy, it is additionally important for you to practice the Testicle Massage exercise (see chapter and to circulate your sexual energy. Both of these techniques help the body absorb the sperm and reduce any feeling of fullness or congestion. The involuntary contractions of the contractile-phase orgasms that you will learn to experience without ejaculation also massage the prostate, which helps to relieve congestion and keep the prostate healthy."

Still I don't know what does it really mean "reabsorbed by the body" but I tell you one thing. It's exactly how it feels like. Like there is some kind of overwhelming pleasent flow in the body.

Also, information about retrograde ejaculation gives an answer to demografx and why he still had POIS symptoms. I think we are really getting into something now

Pablo, I encourage you to practice this thing again. It's exactly how you described. During the process you will probably lose a lot of semen and suffer all this symptoms again. That's why I said it's really tough. Since you could do it before, learning it again can be easier. If you stay on your course and practice persistently, you will achieve desired results. In the end it's really worth it.

I'm finishing my guide. I will probably post it today.

[demografx]

I really need to put more effort into helping to get some research funded. I think it is our best chance of narrowing down the cause of our illness and linking together our shared experiences. I hope to put more time into finding suitable researchers.

Sorry to hear about the difficult experiences. This makes your statement above imperative, I agree!

I've asked before, I'll ask again: everyone, who would you recommend as a researcher for us to hire independently? Doesn't even have to be a specific person, just an idea, e.g., endocrinology researcher, major university. Please respond and prove me wrong that we're not working together as a group here! []