[prism]

demo,
have you ever been tested for 'hypogonadism'?
(appologises if this has been talked prev on forum)

"Men in their 30s and 40s also fall prey to low testosterone counts. It's a disorder called hypogonadism, and it can be caused by an undescended testicle, a testicular injury, a pituitary gland disorder or even prescription drugs."

http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/boosttes.htm
http://www.nowloss.com/ways-to-increase-testosterone-levels-naturally-without-using-steroids.htm

[daveman]

Men in their 30s and 40s also fall prey to low testosterone counts. It's a disorder called hypogonadism, and it can be caused by an undescended testicle, a testicular injury, a pituitary gland disorder or even prescription drugs.

Hmmm, made me wonder. It seems then, that there must be others out there with low testosterone, but that don't have POIS...

So then is the low T a side effect of something else?

Interesting point Daveboy.

[CertainlyPOIS]

Rob


"I have generally stopped ejaculating for two years now in order to heal my body but have seen very little improvement. I've also improved my diet and avoid eating anything unhealthy. Right now I'm taking royal jelly powder and olive leaf extract to treat my condition but haven't seen any effects so far."

Welcome.
How much olive leaf extract do  you use and  how long hav you been using it.
I calculated pablo's 50ml per day is equal to 250 mg of pure olive leaf extract and
the extra 30ml is equal to 150mg of pure olive extract tablet wise.

[demografx]

Hypogonadism and POIS

demo,

have you ever been tested for 'hypogonadism'?
(appologises if this has been talked prev on forum)

"Men in their 30s and 40s also fall prey to low testosterone counts. It's a disorder called hypogonadism, and it can be caused by an undescended testicle, a testicular injury, a pituitary gland disorder or even prescription drugs."

http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/boosttes.htm
http://www.nowloss.com/ways-to-increase-testosterone-levels-naturally-without-using-steroids.htm

Hmmm, made me wonder. It seems then, that there must be others out there with low testosterone, but that don't have POIS...

So then is the low T a side effect of something else?

Interesting point Daveboy.

Written below, this might answer some questions, from an old post of mine:

Do I have Hypogonadism or POIS?

My endocrinologist writes "hypogonadism" in his labwork orders for my bloodtests. (If he wrote "POIS" - an unrecognized malady - I'm sure that would create undesirable questions in the lab).

Hypogonadism means that the body produces insufficient levels of testosterone. Which is exactly what they found in my blood testing: low testosterone (along with very high prolactin).

I was prescribed testosterone relacement therapy (TRT), which, most happily, cures my POIS 90%+.

What is confusing to me is that TRT is also the treatment for hypogonadism. But my symptoms are clearly POIS, and I don't see a symptom-similarity between POIS and hypogonadism.

Does this make sense?

ps - About 2 hours after writing the above, I found John's old post below. Now my question is "Do hypogonadism symptoms sometimes last for DAYS or weeks after orgasm?" If they do, maybe this is a new discovery! Do I (and others "with POIS" who are primarily affected by low testosterone) simply have a form of hypogonadism and not POIS?

Some interesting discussions we've had here about hypogonadism and POIS!
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&rlz=1W1DAUS_en&q=hypogonadism+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=467c3568f2eec009

And I'll repeat my mantra: I believe, starting with my POIS-and-testosterone talks with Dr Petr Weiss in the Czech Republic 10 years ago (I found him through 2 top U.S. sex researchers, one who was interviewed on Larry King Live and referred me to the the 2nd one) that higher-than-average levels of testosterone are needed for the drug to work on POIS (which is my personal theory from my own personal testing - for those who respond to that form of treatment). But if you're tempted to test that theory, work closely with a physician to monitor your blood levels, preferably an endocrinologist.

[robb23]

Rob


"I have generally stopped ejaculating for two years now in order to heal my body but have seen very little improvement. I've also improved my diet and avoid eating anything unhealthy. Right now I'm taking royal jelly powder and olive leaf extract to treat my condition but haven't seen any effects so far."

Welcome.
How much olive leaf extract do  you use and  how long hav you been using it.
I calculated pablo's 50ml per day is equal to 250 mg of pure olive leaf extract and
the extra 30ml is equal to 150mg of pure olive extract tablet wise.

Hi CCconfucius,

I'm following his recommendation and taking 50 ml each day mixed with 500 ml water. I've taken it for a week so far but seen no effects.

[robb23]

I took some blood tests last year and discovered I had low total testosterone, 407 ng/dl on a scale of 400-1080 ng/dl. Results from two later tests were even lower, 9.056 nmol/L and 9.682 nmol/L (on a scale of 6.07-27.1 nmol/L). Doctors said these levels were all "within normal range" but they look very low to me.

Robb, my testosterone treatment has been very successful against POIS. My theory is that for those who testosterone can help with POIS, higher-than-average levels of testosterone are needed. Here are some posts relating to my treatment:
newbielink:http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=demografx+testosterone+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&rlz=1W1DAUS_en&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=467c3568f2eec009 [nonactive]

Best wishes and welcome again!

Hi demo,

I'm considering testosterone treatment but don't know if it would shut down my body's own testosterone production. Would it be too early to start treatment at 25?

I've been looking at herbs that might increase testosterone naturally and I found this website with several listed; this guy claims he raised his testosterone from 240 to 800 by cycling these herbs

newbielink:http://www.boost-your-low-testosterone.com/testosterone-herbal.html [nonactive]

has anyone here tried these with positive results?

[Guthrie]

I'm following his recommendation and taking 50 ml each day mixed with 500 ml water. I've taken it for a week so far but seen no effects.

Hi robb23,

Just so we're all on the same page here, when you say that you're taking 50 ml per day, doesn't that basically come out to a whole 2-ounce bottle per day?  That seems expensive--how much does that cost you per day?

[robb23]

I'm following his recommendation and taking 50 ml each day mixed with 500 ml water. I've taken it for a week so far but seen no effects.

Hi robb23,

Just so we're all on the same page here, when you say that you're taking 50 ml per day, doesn't that basically come out to a whole 2-ounce bottle per day?  That seems expensive--how much does that cost you per day?

It was expensive, I purchased 4 bottles together for $147 including the shipping

Each bottle contains 500 ml so this would last for 40 days

[prism]

demo,
no i just it was interesting that undescended testicle was listed as a possible cause for hypogonadism.

Robb,
Can you put your low testosterone to any of these (from the article):
undescended testicle, a testicular injury, a pituitary gland disorder or even prescription drugs?

"Would it be too early to start treatment at 25?"
difficult to answer, remember we're not doctors...

but there's 307 pages of good advice and stories.

[robb23]

Doctors said these levels were all "within normal range" but they look very low to me.

Seems that's not surprising at all from what I've heard here.... I still have to take my tests, but when I do, I'm going to bring them straight here, much more apt to get a better diagmostic than most doctors will give.

Personally this hormone stuff is way over my head, almost scarey to me, not to be able to get my mind around it. But I feel a lot of good support and knowledge (and SYMPATHY) here.

So good luck.

Yes, you almost have to self diagnose yourself because the doctors won't do it properly. Going to see doctors for POIS has been unsuccessful and frustrating, when they simply blow you off and tell you there's nothing wrong with you. It's also difficult to see a specialist or an endocrinologist without a GP referring you first.

The hormone stuff is confusing at first, but I got a better understanding of it from following this forum and doing some research on my own. 

[robb23]

demo,
no i just it was interesting that undescended testicle was listed as a possible cause for hypogonadism.

Robb,
Can you put your low testosterone to any of these (from the article):
undescended testicle, a testicular injury, a pituitary gland disorder or even prescription drugs?

"Would it be too early to start treatment at 25?"
difficult to answer, remember we're not doctors...

but there's 307 pages of good advice and stories.

I've never suffered any testicular injuries or had an undescended testicle

It wasn't caused by prescription drugs either

I don't think I have any pituitary gland disorder, but I'm not sure

[demografx]

Hi demo,

I'm considering testosterone treatment but don't know if it would shut down my body's own testosterone production. Would it be too early to start treatment at 25?

Excellent question. And a very personal decision, to be made between you, family, friends, and physicians. When I asked my endocrinologist about that, his reply was that my body simply doesn't manufacture enough T on it's own. That, plus my age (I'm much older than you) and the fact that I would do almost anything to get rid of my worst enemy, POIS, drove my decision to risk TRT (testosterone replacement therapy).

I've been looking at herbs that might increase testosterone naturally and I found this website with several listed; this guy claims he raised his testosterone from 240 to 800 by cycling these herbs

http://www.boost-your-low-testosterone.com/testosterone-herbal.html

has anyone here tried these with positive results?

I would be extremely careful. There is no solid evidence of serious increasing of testosterone levels with "alternative therapies" such as herbs.

My impression of the above ad is that of a worthless scam. That opinion comes from 35 years in the advertising business plus a fair amount of experience from reading and working with GP's, urologists, endocrinologists, and "the herbal/supplements world".

[demografx]

Made it to the chat room last night. Demo was there. It's a great parallel to the forum, we were talking about how deceiving internet interactions can be. You can "know" someone for years on internet, and not really KNOW them.

The chat opens a depth to the personality, and also permits a more fluid interchange of spontaneous feelings and understanding. You see things that you don't see on the forum.

It was fun too!

daveman, thanks for your endorsement of the Chat Room. It helps to hear it from someone besides the guy who started it! []

[daveman]

[xx(]

Sorry Jim, get well soon!

[daveman]

Something interesting, it's the beginning of the cold and flu season here and I just came down with a doozie. I'm also in day 2. Day 2 should have been fairly light based on the numbers for day one, but I woke up in the morning saying "oh, oohhh", a day 2 flare up! But then I started to realize that it was the "cold" I was feeling more than POIS. (Heavy cold, light POIS, so I'm not sure how relevant all this is) But on other occasions, I've noticed that the cold or flu sort of masks the POIS and sometimes, even though you still feel like sh*t, POIS sympotms even seem to drop.

I know it's hard to distinuish which symptoms are from what and many of us aren't even sure of when their POIS started because they had mistaken the POIS symptoms as something else initially.

So any feedback on this? How other passing illnesses effect POIS?

[daveman]

[xx(]

Sorry Jim, get well soon!

Sorry Jim if this post was confusing, didn't see the comment about not being able to delete posts before, just the YUCK face. I thought the Yuck face was saying.... "bad day in POIS"

[longwalkhome]

Hi everyone. I wrote a few posts a long time ago, but I became so busy with work that I just didn't have the time to write anything. Just to summarize, I have pretty much the same symptoms as most people on here, and I've had them for a very long time now, starting around the age of 21 (though I can't tell the exact year... as they say, 'it's been a long time coming'). I'm 28 now. I also have an auto-immune disease called ITP (idiopathic thrombocytopenia), which affects the time it takes blood to clot after an injury. But since nobody else on here seems to have that kind of disease, I take it that it is a separate phenomenon.

It seems to me that things have become much worse POIS-wise over the last couple of months. It all started around February last year. I was graduating from university, and I was experiencing a very hard time. I was going through a bad break-up, didn't get much help from my friends, and I guess the final examinations did the rest. I had a pretty good grip on myself when it came to controlling my libido and keeping my hands off myself, but after what I was going through, I kind of broke down. I masturbated four times to drown out the sorrow (I never was much of a drinker) over a bit more than one day, and I came to regret that very soon afterwards. This time around it wasn't just flu-like symptoms, it was a full-blown 'flu', and it kept me in bed for almost two weeks, which I take is a bit longer than the time it usually takes to recover.

Symptoms didn't wear off properly, and I had a running nose, bad cough and a shot voice for around four weeks, after which I took to bed with something that felt a great deal like the flu once more. After that I was on three or four different kinds of antibiotics. They all killed the symptoms for a week or two, but all hell would break loose again after that. Things gradually became a little better, but I was suffering from a chronically sore throat up until September that the doctors couldn't quite explain. They said my throat looked like that of a chain smoker, only that I've never even touched a cigarette in my whole life. I got a bit unlucky after that - I got hit by swine flu and spent a whole week in hospital trying to get rid of that - the first two days were worst, things picked up againg quickly after that. But I think that over the last year I only masturbated around seven or eight times, just because I was so afraid of being hit by the flu again. I had only just started a new job, so not being able to concentrate and being off sick felt like a deadly mix to me.

The main point is that now it seems that I'm really going into a state of the 'flu' or pseudo-flu whenever I'm sexually active. Has anybody else experienced aggravated symptoms? It feels like by doing it too often early last year, I made the whole situation even worse.

[demografx]

longwalkhome, Welcome Back!

I'm terribly sorry to hear about your awful, extended malady-miseries - - all apparently started by our #1 Enemy, Mr POIS!

Do you have Dr Waldinger's paper (he was the first physician to formally study and publish his findings on POIS)? Flulike symptoms were a chief POIS characterization in his research. If you don't have the paper, send me a PM; if you send me your email address I'll send you the PDF; if you don't want it by email, I'll just send you a text version embedded in your PM (100% same info, just text isn't as pretty [])

We have had numerous discussions here about flulike symptoms and POIS....and with some relief obtained! B_Jim (and others here) have compiled a lot of information on the subject, have firsthand experiences such as you, and have detailed similar experiences on the Web outside this forum:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

Here are quite a few discussions about flulike symptoms and POIS:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&rlz=1W1DAUS_en&ei=LJW6S4LnGI-wswPyh53rBA&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CAUQBSgA&q=flu+like+POIS+flu+site%3Ahttp%3A//thenakedscientists.com&spell=1&fp=467c3568f2eec009

longwalkhome, pull up a chair and chat one-on-one with another member(s) at our new Chat Room (realtime chat). In fact, I'm going there now......great way to swap ideas spontaneously and simply get to know each other better! Just post or PM if you feel like chatting and maybe someone or two or three will show up!
http://forums.delphiforums.com/POIS/chat

longwalkhome, you have my deepest sympathy for your recent travails, and I hope 2010 turns around for you. There is a lot of optimism for all of us in the coming months, I think!

[Limejuice]

I want to thank everyone for the ongoing support of providing a community where we can discuss this topic.

For what it's worth, I also want to raise my monitary contribution amount to $2,000 for organized POIS research (provided that I'm a test subject if we can find a reasonable professional.

Thanks again!

[prism]

demo,
do you monitor your PSA levels (with home kits?) now your on TRT?

I guess that would be one of things Robb should look into if researching TRT?