[demografx]

FinalPanic, this post will help you find information about POIS that we have already discussed, by tailoring a Google search to this forum:


SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: 3 years' worth of posts (over 7,000 posts!) from 150+ Forum members, and an additional 150 POIS sufferers found elsewhere on the Internet by Member B_Jim.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
demografx POIS site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

and 1,000+ results came up for "demografx" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.

[demografx]

it has beeen interesting to read about dopamine/prolactin balance. I read about this here: http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_and_addiction

FP, I showed your post to the website's owner-consultant-author. Her reply:

"For some reason this post inspires me to share something I just wrote on our forum in a thread where several men were complaining about general angst.

If you think it's worthwhile, feel free to share."


Maybe the vast majority of us are really not cut out for celibacy or lots of isolation in front of computers. Most of you know my song by now, "Humans are tribal, pair bonding primates...with the brains that reward us for socializing and falling in love (at least for a while)."

If you read "Addiction as an Attachment Disorder" (Flores), you'll see a good collection of scientific support for the idea that humans don't do a good job of regulating their moods while on their own. This is why solitary confinement was so dreaded. People can go nuts when they get stuck in a forest of their own projections, without the balancing influence of their tribemates/mates. If you think about it, this makes perfect sense evolutionarily. We had to "need" our tribes at a limbic brain (emotional) level, or we were much less likely to survive.

So there may be *nothing* wrong with you that reconnecting with others in a more satisfying way [perhaps with careful management of sexual desire via karezza or Daoist lovemaking] won't solve. The biggest hurdle may be the silly "myth of self-sufficiency" propounded by our culture these days.

[demografx]

Oh and if it is depletion from being overactive sexually - how much do you need to do - surely every porn star and nightclub nympho would be suffering a life of abject hell by now!

Yes but POIS may sometimes be caused by overactive sex while premature. Some of us have wondered if it might be due to excessive sex (usually masturbation) during early childhood development, before the system is ready.

Makes perfect sense to me.

[CertainlyPOIS]

Oh and if it is depletion from being overactive sexually - how much do you need to do - surely every porn star and nightclub nympho would be suffering a life of abject hell by now!

Yes but POIS may sometimes be caused by overactive sex while premature. Some of us have wondered if it might be due to excessive sex (usually masturbation) during early childhood development, before the system is ready.

Makes perfect sense to me.

I dont know, i didnt start till like 8th grade whichi is kinda late, i did excesseviely but what young boy do you know didnt.

[demografx]

I think maybe the Chi thing may help more with coping than curing.

Excellent perspective, in my opinion.

[demografx]

Oh and if it is depletion from being overactive sexually - how much do you need to do - surely every porn star and nightclub nympho would be suffering a life of abject hell by now!

Yes but POIS may sometimes be caused by overactive sex while premature. Some of us have wondered if it might be due to excessive sex (usually masturbation) during early childhood development, before the system is ready.

Makes perfect sense to me.

I dont know, i didnt start till like 8th grade whichi is kinda late, i did excesseviely but what young boy do you know didnt.

CC, good point. We don't really know yet if early excess is a genesis-culprit for many POIS sufferers or not. Certainly not all!

[demografx]

B_Jim, you have certainly analyzed an incredible amount of data for the last 3 years on 300 POIS cases! Which gives you an amazing, unique perspective on POIS! Just think, Dr. Marcel Waldinger, the "Grandfather Of POIS", only studied...2!!!

[daveman]

I think maybe the Chi thing may help more with coping than curing.

Excellent perspective, in my opinion.

Over the years I have considered many reasons for this unhappy situation, including similar theories to the Chi thing. I have considered that I made same grand error in my youth (started too early), or I am being punished for misdemeanours in a previous life

 [] I think that we should not look great metaphysical theories. Pois is just a temporary imbalance of hormones after ejaculation.

Exactly, whether or not there is a spiritual underlay, it's a physical world!

There are tons of things that can't be fixed with metaphysics. A hormonal/chemical imbalance is just that! The only solution with luck is a re-balance.

[prism]

I think this one-or-the-other way of thinking is absurd. You can still seek to improve physically and mentally whether your on drugs or not. And visa versa.

It is of my view that it is a physical impossibility that POIS can be totally cured via a drug-only approach. Although I respect anyones decision where it comes to a point where treating/dealing with the symptoms with whatever drug/steroid available is the best workable option.

I think its fair to say the success stories are few and far between whatever people have tried.

It lingers on my mind how I was talked out of going to going to reflexology when i was 18, which pretty much cost me 10 years of living hell with pois/rsi.
But I dont want to sound like someone talking anyone out of HRT. In fact Im pretty much of the opinion someone should try T with gp analysis even ifs its average levels tested because anything is better than pois.

[daveman]

I've had changes in my protocol. It's interesting, because what I've been doing has improved my situation greatly, even though it may not have entirely been for the right reasons.

Whereas I have reduced the severity of my POIS down to about 20% of what it was, I still have sessions that fail me (like yesterday). But those have lead to insights, especially in light of things happening here and new investigations I'm doing with progesterone and immune system interactions.

Yesterday was day 0 and today day 1, and last night was quite heavy! Usually I can tell how the POIS will develop by the reactions of the first couple of hours after the "O". And more precisely I can tell by the nature of the orgasm. Because of the "forced ejections", I am very aware of the subtlties of the orgasm, it's development, flow and fullness. Yesterday was intersting because by the orgasm I felt it would be a bad one, but most of day 0 was fairly calm. But the night of day 0 was bad. General joint pain, ringing ears, sweats, nightmares and frequent urination not to mention the underlying and almost undescribable POIS discomfort.

But rounding out all of the sessions, bad and good, the most consistant indicator is the nature of the orgasm (for me). The "O" of this last day 0 caught me by surprise. First of all I was marginally aroused, it was rather quick and the "O" jumped up on me. Rather than build, it was fairly flat and then "boom". And the pulsations were fast and shallow. two or three per second. I couldn't get behind them to do the "forced ejections" They where shallow and incomplete. I mean I "O'd" and in all other ways it could have been considered normal.

But what I conclude, is that whenever the "O" is properly developed, builds and follows through to a robust and well cycled (approx 1 per sec) and complete ejection, my POIS is very light.

It seems possible to control how and when this happens. Firstly as I said before, during or within the week after her ovulation almost always is successful. Most likely the pheromones provide the proper stimulation. Progesterone is more prevelent in her balance then too. Second, but much more difficult to control, is if the first part of the sex isn't developing correctly, STOP!! She doesn't like that.... and of course is difficult to do! And third, don't block or fight the orgasm. Become involed in its development instead of trying to stifle it. Try to take time to help it build (difficult).

All of the mecanisms I don't have clear yet. I'm leaning away from thinking that my case is entirely unique to the vasectomy reversal, but leaning towards an overall immune system malfunction that could involve (the lack of) progesterone.

But I can reduce my symptoms greatly, and so far without medicine. Once I am clearer on the cause, I will look into more of a medical cure.

[demografx]

Dr Waldinger has studied more cases (maybe 20-30?) but only wrote a paper for two ones, very severe. But our forum made a great job in addition to his work. The third major step was Selwyn Dexter's work with progesterone.

I remember reading that Dr Waldinger saw 5 POIS patients at his hospital in 5 years, including the 2 that he wrote up in great detail.

B_Jim, I think you know more than Waldinger by now. Maybe we should send YOU the recruitment letter for our POIS researcher!  []

[demografx]

I think this one-or-the-other way of thinking is absurd. You can still seek to improve physically and mentally whether your on drugs or not. And visa versa.

I wish I could agree with you, but there has been very little solid, reliable evidence of significant POIS improvement in the non-pharma world.

I do agree with you that one-or-the-other-way of thinking is limited.
 
But I do think that most of us here who have been studying POIS hard, I mean really hard, for years, have concluded that it's at least 80% pharma and the rest non-pharma.

[demografx]

Forcing Sleep

I experimented this morning with forcing sleep to fight POIS...and it worked great!

I know this sounds simplistic and naive, but just a little twist to the tried-and-true sleep method made a big difference for me today, so I wanted to report it.

Even after a long night's slumber, I awoke to a 2nd Day Zero in 3 days - predictably not feeling well. But I had an appointment and also wanted to read. The mind was racing somewhat.

But I thought I would experiment anyway to see if it would work, and it did!

I cancelled my appointment. I put aside the reading material. Not easy for me. And it took a long time to nod off (2 hours?), using a TM meditation technique of repeating the same mantra over and over, gently pushing aside "thoughts of the day".

Normally I would wait out the hours or the day and then take a nap, which would usually restore me to full force.

But those usual hours in activity would be "POIS-strenuous"...so why not feel better sooner rather than later?

Forcing the sleep was difficult, so next time I might even try some Benadryl, which was given to me in the hospital and makes sleep easier.

I also increase my dosage of testosterone and stimulants on Day Zero.

This now brings me closer to a 90% POIS-free experience more often than before.

It's been a year and a half on this successful treatment. And I have no doubt that this simple new "early sleep" addition will make it even better.

As I discussed with another forum member yesterday privately, immersing ourselves in this forum really helped us both tremendously. At first I resisted the group wisdom of being bloodtested hormonally, but I decided that my methods for 30+ years hadn't worked, so why not study hard all the posts written here and try what this forum suggests as it best applies to us?

Thanks, everyone, for helping to turn my life around!

As a followup, I tried to do this an hour ago, very early afternoon, and couldn't get to sleep. I even took 2 Benadryl. And used TM meditation.

But when I clambered out of bed soon afterward, and resumed my day, I was incredibly POIS-relieved! (Day Zero)

So forced rest apparently works for me, too!

[demografx]

Our little pharma vs non-pharma "debate" here

I say "little" above, because from where I sit, I don't think anyone here is disagreeing that much with the other(s)!

I think that it's just a question of degree of one approach vs another.

Or am I wrong? Please think about this for just a moment and reply if you wish: is anyone here still thinking that the solution to ending POIS is only-one-way-not-the-other?

[lauracostis]

All of the mecanisms I don't have clear yet. I'm leaning away from thinking that my case is entirely unique to the vasectomy reversal, but leaning towards an overall immune system malfunction that could involve (the lack of) progesterone.

i don't think imbalanced hormones are the problem. my progesterone was well over the normal range when i had it tested about 36 hours after an NE.  i think my body was trying to suppress my own immune system by cranking up progesterone which helps suppress the immune system. only taking a monster dose before sex will help suppress the immunological cascade which follows. when i took a dosage of progesterone after an O, it was to late to stop the effects, which tell me that progesterone levels are not the problem.  the articles i have read about androgenic steroids say that they are involved with suppressing the immune system, which include testosterone and progesterone.  demo may be a testimonial for this since his t levels were fine but he had increased success against pois after taking extra testosterone.  demos aderall besides producing norepinephrine, which makes you feel good also causes the body to produce adrenaline and cortisol, which lower the immune response.

[Defsync]

as far as Mayo Clinic goes, let it be known I am 2 hours away from there, and offer myself for any physical / mental testing, including exploratory surgery or anything else that might be somewhat risky.

ive also come to the peace of mind that if, for some reason i become terminally ill, i'm going to do something drastic, something like offing myself in a public place with tons of ppl around, just to get on the national news, with letters sent to news stations that I did it because i couldnt handle my POIS any longer. maybe that would finally get someone's attention, eh? if this bothers you, i apologize but i find it rather noble of me. ppl have died before for their causes and i should be allowed to do the same.

1000 years of medical advancement... they can splice genes together to form new lifeforms, but because of the arrogance of doctors educated by a medical community that is uncomfortable with admitting what they dont know, we are still suffering and will probably go to our graves without POIS even being recognized for the serious condition that it is.

having your brain raped for days, from an otherwise normally bodily function, just might impact your quality of life, eh?

i wonder how many countless relationships were destroyed because the POIS sufferer didnt even know they had POIS and attributed their "mental degeneration" after sex to something psychological having to do with the relationship.

i wonder if having a forum on a website called "naked scientists" brings a slight amount of discrediting to this discussion. i can tell you this: having the word "naked" in the http address, when linked in emails to professional, probably gets the email removed by spam n porn filters. just an fyi.

[strawberryman]

Has anyone experienced pois symptoms while having jet lag ?

[demografx]

demo may be a testimonial for this since his t levels were fine but he had increased success against pois after taking extra testosterone.

My T levels weren't fine, they were clearly deficient, shown by repeated testing. Bringing my T-levels to low normal worked very well on my POIS, but bringing the T-levels even higher (my idea) worked even better.

But I do think it worthwhile to do careful experimentation with a physician, preferably an endocrinologist, to see if an "extra" boost of testosterone can work for many POIS sufferers, regardless of what their T-reading is, as long as it's not already high.

But TRT RISK FACTORS - including the possibility of losing one's ability to re-start T on their own - must also be carefully weighed!

i don't think imbalanced hormones are the problem.

Huh? Testosterone is a hormone!

[demografx]

Has anyone experienced pois symptoms while having jet lag ?

Very glad you asked. When I brought it up before no one seemed to respond. The similarities have puzzled me for decades.

Jet lag has been very severe for me, which hurt my consulting work significantly because I finally gave up flying. Not sure if the symptoms are exactly the same, but with jet lag they are very bizarre.

Extreme fatigue lasting for days characterizes both my POIS and jet lag.

[demografx]

as far as Mayo Clinic goes, let it be known I am 2 hours away from there, and offer myself for any physical / mental testing, including exploratory surgery or anything else that might be somewhat risky.

Thanks much, Defsync, your availability could really help us if Mayo Clinic shows a positive response!

So far, the President of Rochester, Minn. facility declined because he is brand new in his job and needs to acclimate.

But his assistant said that since we wrote to many physicians at Mayo, it's up to them to respond now.