[martin88]

It seems endogenous opioid peptides (EOP) are able to produce irregular hormonal secretion.
I assume EOP are released at orgasm.
-EOP decreases GnRH (from hypothalamus to stimulate LH and FSH release to produce testosterone and sperm)
-EOP are usually increased by stressant situations.
-An abnormal LH pulsatile secretion has been related to an increased opioid activity

Opioid control of gonadotrophin secretion in humans:
http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/8/suppl_2/151

Naltrexone effects on male sexual behavior, corticosterone, and testosterone in stressed male rats:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19027764

[horizon]

going back to that progesterone/pregnancy/pois article.
this tv show suggests that men go through hormonal changes during child birth
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rvv6t
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couvade_syndrome

5.18mins - prolactin

3.16mins testosterone

Im baffled then if the person in the original article felt less POIS during his wifes pregnency since testosterone goes down and prolactin goes up.

[daveman]

This is compatible to my situation. The vasectomy reversal left the "sperm ducts" hard (scar tissue) and restricted, although apparantly open.

What were your options? can you get them fixed?

I have contemplated the possibility of having a reversal reversal.... but can't be sure that such would fix the problem. In any case, my healthy sperm count is effectivly zero so a reversal reversal in the sense of fertility would not have aa negative impact.

I have not had the $$$ to even see the specialist, so don't know what his opinion is, however, we all know that it seems that urologists aren't that informed with respect to POIS. There is the possibility though that he may know something about side effects of reversals (which could be very similar to POIS). I remember he had some warnings, which at the time seemed light....

I'm negotiating the sale of a new GPS business, and until it goes through, I'm very strapped. If you find out something about your narrow vas, let me know, meantime if things go through here, I'll be going to the doc as soon as possible and I'll let you know.

[bokonon]

Progesterone lotion/cream?

I'm 28 (male) and I've suffered from the symptoms mentioned in this forum for quite some time now (3-4 years). Having read about the successful use of progesterone I've been looking into ways of increasing my progesterone levels. Apart from prescription drugs, there's a variety of progesterone lotions or creams, marketed mainly for women. Has anyone tried any of these? And if so, how much would one need to apply to experience any difference?

Any info anyone has on this topic would be very much appreciated.

P.S. I recently ordered a tube of progesterone lotion and will give it a try when it arrives. Will post if it makes a difference.

[daveman]

The milky pee saga.

I've been working on "orgasm control" to control reverse flow during orgasm.

At times I have high libido but can't always achieve a solid erection. In this case, I find that it double up on me and as such produces greater reverse flow. In those cases, I have milky pee 24 hrs later. I suffer heavy symptoms for 24 hrs which drop of drastically after the elimination of the milky pee.

Other times, I may loose synchronization with the orgasm, and also have reverse flow with milky pee 24 hrs later. (Synchronization: lost when trying to last longer and the orgasm sneaks up on you. I have found that there is an optimal time when you can "push" during the controlled rise just before the orgasm. This push seems to assure a fuller cycling of the orgasm to folow.)

A good cycle doesn't seem to produce milky pee, and POIS symptoms are light and last only about 3 days.

Today was strange though. I had a morning woody which I felt I had to take advantage of!!
The "O" was fairly fluid, although I have had better. It was also on a full bladder. After the "O" I had milky pee! This was a first time, usually it's 24 hrs later. Perhaps the full bladder controlled to some extend the reverse flow and permitted a capture that subsequenly could be expelled.

I have light symptoms but also have taken something else which I feel has helped greatly in the past to reduce symptoms.

I take a hot lemon flue remedy just after the "O". this remedy has tylonol and noscapine. It seems that this remedy contributes to the shortening the POIS period...

[demografx]

Reply from Dr Rajfer's assistant

I will write Linda back and ask her to please give us another researcher to contact -- demo



Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 29, 2010, at 11:13 AM, "Hang, Linda" <LHang@mednet.ucla.edu> wrote:

Hi Mr. [demo]

After seeing your messages, Dr. Rajfer has asked that I send you a warm message on his behalf to express his appreciation towards your kind and enthusiastic efforts.  THANK YOU so much, says Dr. Rajfer, for your invitation and offer.  Unfortunately, at this time, he is unable to participate in this due to an overwhelming schedule.  He wishes you the best as you continue your work on the issue.



Sincerely,


Linda Hang
Administrative Assistant to Jacob Rajfer, M.D.
Tel:  310-206-8164
Fax: 310-206-2369
Email: lhang@mednet.ucla.edu

Mailing Address:
10833 LeConte Ave
Box 951738 CHS 66-131
Los Angeles, CA 90095-1738

Clinic Address:
Frank Clark Urology Center
200 Medical Plaza, Suite 140
Los Angeles, CA 90095

________________________________
From: [demo]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 8:15 AM
To: Hang, Linda
Subject: EMAIL

Since this is my first time corresponding with you, would you please let me know if you received my other emails? Sometimes they get trapped in "filters". Many thanx, [demo]

________________________________
IMPORTANT WARNING: This email (and any attachments) is only intended for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. You, the recipient, are obligated to maintain it in a safe, secure and confidential manner. Unauthorized redisclosure or failure to maintain confidentiality may subject you to federal and state penalties. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately notify us by return email, and delete this message from your computer.

[horizon]

Animus,

I am pursuing further surgery to remove the seminal vesicles, reduce the prostate, and cauterize the ejaculatory ducts. The aim is to achieve a minimum of semen production, and dry ejaculation.
 

Is this what you had performed?

Hi John,
Yes, I did have the seminal vesicles removed by surgery. That was the longer and more challenging operation because they are located deep in the pelvis- but the urologist said he had no trouble doing it. Usually the seminal vesicles are removed at the same time as a full Prostatectomy, I think because they are somehow behind the prostate. So it is less common to remove them independently of the Prostate.

I also had a "TURP" which reduced the size of my prostate, while leaving it in place. My prostate was fairly enlarged. This surgery is fairly common for people with BPH, and is effective, and pretty low-risk.

As an extra measure, we also cauterized the ejaculatory ducts, which prevents any remaining seminal fluids from leaving the body.

Before these operations I took care of the problem of high levels of testosterone- I had enlarged testicles and elevated testosterone. In that process, I ultimately stopped Sperm Production. Also I was able to reduce my Testosterone levels to a healthy level.

Testosterone levels vary a lot among individuals, and the "acceptable range" chart is very broad.
I found it too broad to be helpful in terms of getting a "right T number", but it could be a vital clue. I think it's a great idea to chart the hormone levels pre- and post O, and get a sense of how much the changes are.

Animus,

I am curious,
did you have your testicles removed?
if so, what is it like without any testicles and seminal vesicles?
who's idea was it? yours or the doctors?

do you think differently, feel different without them?

did you need therapy or were pretty philosophical about it all?

although im not at all tempted,
i am curious.

[lauracostis]

Progesterone lotion/cream?

I'm 28 (male) and I've suffered from the symptoms mentioned in this forum for quite some time now (3-4 years). Having read about the successful use of progesterone I've been looking into ways of increasing my progesterone levels. Apart from prescription drugs, there's a variety of progesterone lotions or creams, marketed mainly for women. Has anyone tried any of these? And if so, how much would one need to apply to experience any difference?

Any info anyone has on this topic would be very much appreciated.

P.S. I recently ordered a tube of progesterone lotion and will give it a try when it arrives. Will post if it makes a difference.

i have some p creme, but has not shown any results, its to bad because its over the counter. it appears that you need a progestin(synthetic progesterone) like norethisterone.

[Animus]

(quote from "milky pee saga" did not appear)

have you talked to your doctor about what the milky pee might be all about?
what is synchronization. reverse flow, and "it" ?
obviously there is a link between your pois symptoms and milky pee. but I don't understand it.

[Animus]

Animus,

I am pursuing further surgery to remove the seminal vesicles, reduce the prostate, and cauterize the ejaculatory ducts. The aim is to achieve a minimum of semen production, and dry ejaculation.
 

Is this what you had performed?

Hi John,
Yes, I did have the seminal vesicles removed by surgery. That was the longer and more challenging operation because they are located deep in the pelvis- but the urologist said he had no trouble doing it. Usually the seminal vesicles are removed at the same time as a full Prostatectomy, I think because they are somehow behind the prostate. So it is less common to remove them independently of the Prostate.

I also had a "TURP" which reduced the size of my prostate, while leaving it in place. My prostate was fairly enlarged. This surgery is fairly common for people with BPH, and is effective, and pretty low-risk.

As an extra measure, we also cauterized the ejaculatory ducts, which prevents any remaining seminal fluids from leaving the body.

Before these operations I took care of the problem of high levels of testosterone- I had enlarged testicles and elevated testosterone. In that process, I ultimately stopped Sperm Production. Also I was able to reduce my Testosterone levels to a healthy level.

Testosterone levels vary a lot among individuals, and the "acceptable range" chart is very broad.
I found it too broad to be helpful in terms of getting a "right T number", but it could be a vital clue. I think it's a great idea to chart the hormone levels pre- and post O, and get a sense of how much the changes are.

Animus,

I am curious,
did you have your testicles removed?
if so, what is it like without any testicles and seminal vesicles?
who's idea was it? yours or the doctors?

do you think differently, feel different without them?

did you need therapy or were pretty philosophical about it all?

although im not at all tempted,
i am curious.

hi horizon,
I hope you don't mind if I answer obliquely.
testicles "essentially" produce testosterone and sperm. If you remove the testicles you will not produce either. It is possible to do TRT to replace the lost T levels, and it functions as far as I know identically to the T produced by the body. T levels must be just right to do the most benefit- if they are too high or too low there are "irregular" symptoms. some people seek those types of symptoms so they alter their T levels. Orgasm also seems to alter T levels in the body.

As far as decisions- personally one has to decide what will do the most good and weigh the risks. I do not know of many ways of reducing T levels in the body. It's easier to increase them than decrease as far as I know.

[martin88]

Reply from Dr Rajfer's assistant
I will write Linda back and ask her to please give us another researcher to contact -- demo

Good effort Demo. At least this doctor answered. I sent a few emails to researchers this year and had no reply. They're probably all busy with something else (if my emails were not blocked) so it can be good to contact directors who can decide what to search for.

I hope one day we'll have a group of POIS sufferers located near the same town who will be able to visit the same doctor (that's what happened with Dr Waldinger).

[demografx]

2nd test with fish and I feel good. Placebo ? we'll see.

B_Jim, this doesn't sound fishy to me at all!  []

[demografx]

Reply from Dr Rajfer's assistant
I will write Linda back and ask her to please give us another researcher to contact -- demo

Good effort Demo. At least this doctor answered. I sent a few emails to researchers this year and had no reply. They're probably all busy with something else (if my emails were not blocked) so it can be good to contact directors who can decide what to search for.

Thank you very much for that thoughtful comment, Martin. Once again, I'm disappointed, but I didn't say that in my reply letter:


Dear Linda,

On behalf of the entire POIS Forum and its visitors, I want to thank you and Dr. Rajfer very much for your thoughtful consideration and for your kind well wishing!

Linda, we have been searching for expanded medical research for a very long time. We are not experienced in this arena - but you and Dr. Rajfer most certainly are! Can you please consider giving us any pointers: some direction or guidance as to whom to contact? We would be delighted to simply begin with an intern who can study our case.

If you prefer, I'd be happy to make a formal paid medical appointment with Dr. Rajfer to discuss this.

Many thanks again for all your support!

Best regards,

[demo]
Moderator
POIS Forum

[demografx]

I hope one day we'll have a group of POIS sufferers located near the same town who will be able to visit the same doctor (that's what happened with Dr Waldinger).

That would be useful, but I think we're too spread out. And Dr Waldinger has been a highly specialized sexual medical researcher in a hospital setting. With patient referrals, I imagine, throughout Europe.

But even then, Martin, Dr Waldinger only saw 5 POIS cases in 5 years. And it's even possible that they came from all over Europe.

I think that our computer age allows us to rapidly analyze cases worldwide. For example, I can envision an fMRI study begun with Defsync in Ohio, and confirmation testing done by other laboratories around the world. Also, we have a tremendous amount of centralized data here at the forum to keep researchers busy for at LEAST a week  []

[demografx]

I sent a few emails to researchers this year

Hello Martin,

Thank you very much for doing that! In my opinion, this is the most important task for our forum at this time!

Best regards,
demo

[demografx]

Animus, once again I want to thank you for discussing publicly something that is such a personal and difficult issue, but you have decided to share your experience altruistically for the benefit of all!

[Limejuice]

If anyone reading lives in Colorado I can recommend a primary care doctor that will treat POIS.  Please PM me.

[demografx]

Limejuice, that's teriffic! I wonder if he would be willing to help the forum to expand beyond Waldinger's 2002 POIS study? We have about $5,000 pledged from Forum members.

[CertainlyPOIS]

If anyone reading lives in Colorado I can recommend a primary care doctor that will treat POIS.  Please PM me.

I dont live in colrado in the future probably pretty soon i will be taking you up on that.

[demografx]

CCconfucius, I want to thank you for having sent outreach email to recruit a POIS researcher!