[Hoping]

why does it take around 7 days to recover from POIS?

My theory - but far from fact - is that very slow sperm regeneration time (SRT) causes the long recovery.

Since TRT, my SRT is now very quick, and POIS is vastly reduced. When I'm "full" (again), I'm fine.

Anyone agree/disagree?

I agree... I think it has to do with sperm and semen regeneration too. I was looking up the time it takes to make sperm, and found that it takes about 74 days, and is being done all the time, but it takes 2-6 days for the sperm to make their final journey and mature fully... the article is here:  http://www.ehow.com/about_5503589_long-sperm-mature.html

So I found that interesting because it seems to match the time it takes to recover...

i disagree... i can get POIS symptoms without ejaculating sperm, simply from the "feel good" contraction one gets during orgasm. A person familiar with kama sutra and tantric sex practices knows how to do this. I just learned it when I was a kid "experimenting".

This is why i believe POIS (at least mine) has to do with the histamine released from the mast cells in the genitalia. my theory is that for w/e reason my brain is unable to break it down properly and in a timely manner, and it causes my POIS (which is mainly mental dysfunction 3-5 days.)

Interesting.

I agree with Defsync...
Although I have also pondered the role that sperm production plays in POIS, I have also experienced orgasm without ejaculation by flexing my PC muscles prior to climaxing. This allows you to orgasm without ejaculating. I'm not sure what "happens to" the seminal fluid in this process (if it is never released, or if it is released within the body and disposed of unnoticed through urination). I have experienced POIS symptoms following these "dry orgasms." In fact, I would say that symptoms tend to be worse if I do not ejaculate.
I don't say this to completely dismiss the idea that there is a connection between POIS and semen production. I am simply sharing my own personal experience.

info on PC muscle technique: http://www.kegelexercisesformen.com/

[John21 (OP)]

Update

I haven't had any NEs lately so things have been quiet for me on the POIS front, not a bad thing. I am posting to mention something that I observed after making cookies: nutmeg has a profound antidepressant effect on me.

I had read before that nutmeg can have psychoactive effects, and that it can act as an antidepressant. I believe it is reported to work as a weak MAOI (monoamine oxide inhibitor). But for me it is a VERY small amount of the spice that I have to take to get a very noticeable reaction. When I say small I mean so little that it is hard to measure. What I do to tritrate the proper amount is wet the tip of a small jackknife blade and stick it in the container. I now only consume a small dusting on the blade tip daily. I would really like to have a mircogram meter to measure it, it is so small. It is typical of my system to be very sensitive to some substances.

The antidepressant effect reduces anxiety and allows me to feel like my natural self, it is not like some synthetic happiness like I used to feel years ago on SSRIs. I haven't noticed any side effects. One effect I experience on nutmeg is that I dream more, and my dreams are quite vivid. The intensity of this has reduced as I have reduced the amount that I take daily. My insomnia has improved significantly on it. I still often wake at night but I always get back to sleep easily and feel rested the next day. Insomnia has been a big struggle for me for many years now so this is very welcome relief.

Perhaps us POIS people have similar chemistry, maybe nutmeg would have a powerful effect on others here as well. I should also note that I did not consider myself depressed. Mild chronic anxiety would be a much better description of my typical state which is now much improved.

[demografx]

Here's a letter I sent before you posted the inquiry letter, demo. Yours is a little more to the point. But I thought I'd post this anyway. I'll keep working on this.

Greetings Dr.Munarriz,
...

Excellent letter!

[demografx]

I'm traveling for a few more days, it's clumsy to send/file correspondence on iPhone. Anyone care to send an email to horizon's contacts? (2nd post above). Thanks!!

Yes, I'll look into contacting them based on the info H posted...thanks.  Good luck on your trip...

Thanks for writing them!

[demografx]

John, very interesting about nutmeg!

[demografx]

EDS, great to hear about your testosterone patch experience.

[demografx]

mmac06, I went through a very similar experience. I think the PC muscle technique diverts semen to the bladder, then urinates out. Not really "dry".

[John21 (OP)]

John21 : Myristicin seems to be the cause of anti-anxiety effect of nutmeg. What about your Pois ?

I haven't been sexually active so the POIS monster is safely chained up. I will be interested to see if there is a benefit to POIS from taking nutmeg. Is it possible that POIS mignt be connected to orgasm while in an anxious state, messing up the natural neural/hormonal symphony? Just a thought.

[ad75]

Hi All,

I have not posted for ages, so I thought I'd pop by to let you know how I'm getting on!

As you may recall, I had really bad POIS which was affecting me a great deal. I started to try Relora but, although it seemed to help initially, it began to make me feel unwell after a few weeks.

After reading the post by 'ophicus1213' on 13/03/10, in which he described taking a 4*24 hour hormone salivary test for adrenals and sex hormones, I decided to get a test done too.

My test showed: low noon cortisol level of 3.5 (range for my age should be 5.0 - 9.0); high pm DHEA level of 1.98 (range for my age should be 0.40 - 1.47); high Secretory IgA of 569 (outside of the optimal range of 130 - 471). Diagnosis was a degree of adrenal hypofunction with decreased adaptive response.

I then focused on ways to nourish the adrenals and settled on boosting my levels of Vitamin B, as well as taking a good multivitamin to bring any other possible imbalances into line.

Two and a half months later, I feel great! I can have up to two O's a night without suffering serious symptoms if I take a multivitamin in the morning, a Supermalt in the morning and another Supermalt in the evening, just before bed. Three O's start to make me feel pretty rough the next day, but my recovery time is vastly improved compared to before.

Additionally, upping my intake of Vitamin B has helped my chronic insomnia enormously. I also don't feel cold all the time, like I did before, and my craving for carbohydrates and sweets is vastly reduced.

I am not totally cured. I still feel fatigued the following day after sex, even after just one O, but nowhere near as bad as it used to be. My mental acuity has improved a lot.

If any of you are considering getting a saliva test done, I would encourage you to go for it because it might help you to take control of your symptoms and improve them. Has anyone else taken high doses of vitamin B complex (I am taking about two to three times the RDA in different forms to aid absorption) and how have you got on?

Best of luck to all of you!!  []

[horizon]

interesting links found between fatigue and newly discovered virus called XMRV.
http://www.dana.org/news/features/detail.aspx?id=23984

[demografx]

ad75, thanks for reporting, glad to see you again.

[John21 (OP)]

Update

I haven't had any NEs lately so things have been quiet for me on the POIS front, not a bad thing. I am posting to mention something that I observed after making cookies: nutmeg has a profound antidepressant effect on me.

I had read before that nutmeg can have psychoactive effects, and that it can act as an antidepressant. I believe it is reported to work as a weak MAOI (monoamine oxide inhibitor). But for me it is a VERY small amount of the spice that I have to take to get a very noticeable reaction. When I say small I mean so little that it is hard to measure. What I do to tritrate the proper amount is wet the tip of a small jackknife blade and stick it in the container. I now only consume a small dusting on the blade tip daily. I would really like to have a mircogram meter to measure it, it is so small. It is typical of my system to be very sensitive to some substances.

The antidepressant effect reduces anxiety and allows me to feel like my natural self, it is not like some synthetic happiness like I used to feel years ago on SSRIs. I haven't noticed any side effects. One effect I experience on nutmeg is that I dream more, and my dreams are quite vivid. The intensity of this has reduced as I have reduced the amount that I take daily. My insomnia has improved significantly on it. I still often wake at night but I always get back to sleep easily and feel rested the next day. Insomnia has been a big struggle for me for many years now so this is very welcome relief.

Perhaps us POIS people have similar chemistry, maybe nutmeg would have a powerful effect on others here as well. I should also note that I did not consider myself depressed. Mild chronic anxiety would be a much better description of my typical state which is now much improved.

I should add that it is possible that I am having side effects from taking this. My right arm has been having pins and needles like it is falling asleep. It is common for this type of thing to happen at night during sleep due to sleep position, but for me it is happening in the day for no known reason. It may be a a pinched nerve in my shoulder or something, but I thought I should mention it because there is a possibility of it being connected to nutmeg. At first I dismissed this possibility, but myristicin is apparently a neurotoxin that is used as an insecticide. Considering the strong reaction I have to it I have to wonder if there is a connection. To be safe I am going to stop using it for a while.

[horizon]

We should get in touch with these guys!
http://www.whydomenfallasleep.com/about-authors.html
Authors of Why Do Men Fall Asleep after Sex.
Billy Goldberg, M.D. is a practicing physician at Bellevue Hospital and NYU Medical Center.
Mark Leyner.
Their theory of 'tiredness after sex' involves being caused by loss of Glycocen stored in muscles.

[Animus]

re. John21's post:


Wow, that's amazing! Thanks for sharing your findings!
So it's a microscopic amt. of nutmeg that helps you. It reminds me a little of homeopathy, which also uses very small amounts... I don't know if that is a good comparison though.
So this is outside of POIS? or does it help pois too...

[Limejuice]

Hi John, do you ingest nutmeg before sleeping or during the day?  Thanks.

[pauliebaby61]

I have been doing testosterone injections 2x a week for 1 year and sorry to say it does not make any difference in my POIS.
My T level is 800+ now.The symptoms are the same as when my T level was 150.Only difference is my mood is better and i have bulked up. Wear the same clothes but my weight went up 20 lbs.

[John21 (OP)]

re. John21's post:


Wow, that's amazing! Thanks for sharing your findings!
So it's a microscopic amt. of nutmeg that helps you. It reminds me a little of homeopathy, which also uses very small amounts... I don't know if that is a good comparison though.
So this is outside of POIS? or does it help pois too...

It is just barely enough to taste it that I take. When I was using it in cookies I was taking more than that, perhaps as much as 1/16 a teaspoon. I reduced this because the effect was too intense. This is nothing like homeopathy, which is pure bunk in my opinion.  It remains to be seen if it affects POIS.

Hi John, do you ingest nutmeg before sleeping or during the day?  Thanks.

I have been taking it in the morning but I don't think it matters. It seems to remain in the body for quite a while. BTW, I have already stopped taking it a couple of times and when I was on a stronger dose it gave me withdrawl effects, a slightly depressed state.

[mister_z]

I was wondering if anyone here experiences this:

When I am aroused I start to feel unwell before orgasm and this keeps on for a while sometimes even if I dont orgasm.
By unwell I mean: feeling weak, nausea and even abdominal cramp with diarrhea.

Didn't use to happen before, it seems to happen more and more as I grow older. (I am 30)

Sigh, meanwhile I am still trying to find an endocrinologist who will look into this seriously.

[Limejuice]

Thanks

[lauracostis]

Thanks

hows the norethisterone going