[carlitto]

just a quick update:
I decided not to do the *****-test by myself but I have an appointment lined up end of the week at a universitary andrology center near me. let us see if they heard of POIS.

[horizon]

Im as white as it gets (in appearance, not political stance []).

[hurray]

I started a few days ago with a 12mg [Silodosin] "one-off" dose, waited a few hours, had an O with no fluid leakage and no POIS.

What was the climactic feeling-intensity. Low? Moderate?

In each instance, the intensity was less than if I had not taken Silodosin. Intensity was much nearer normal when the O involved a partner.

Quoting from the study that wikipedia references when it mentions Silodosin's ability to prevent ejaculation:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2834370/?tool=pmcentrez

Baseline ejaculatory profiles were collected by masturbation after 72h of abstinence (from Days 0 to 3) before administration of silodosin or the placebo. In the study, 4mg of silodosin or a placebo consisting of lactose with a dosage identical to that of the drug was given twice daily to participants for 3 days. We evaluated the ejaculatory volume and sperm count in the urine after ejaculation. We defined anejaculation as a 100% decrease in ejaculation volume compared with the baseline ejaculatory profile as in earlier reports.

All that they proved was that orgasm remained without ejaculation after a mere 3 days of abstinence. From my own experience, I think that it probably works perfectly for the few days following an ejaculation, but not so over the course of a few weeks or longer (when seminal fluids and sexual tension build up), but that is only my theory, with only my own experience to back it up.

At least my experiences have been in line with Dr Waldinger's research, which is encouraging.

[Guthrie]

OK, another update on the Silodosin.

I started a few days ago with a 12mg "one-off" dose, waited a few hours, had an O with no fluid leakage and no POIS. Had gf assisted O that night, pre-ejaculate leakage but no semen resulted.

Took the standard 8mg dose the following day, another O, no fluid leakage.

Took another 8mg dose the following day. By now I was feeling very "highly strung", sexually tense, I don't know the correct term. I could feel that my body (and brain) REALLY wanted to get rid of some semen. Sure enough, my next O resulted in a small amount of semen leakage. Another unplanned gf O later that night resulted in pre-ejaculate but not semen.

My experience of Silodosin so far is that if your mind/body is desperate to ejaculate, Silodosin won't do enough to stop it, although it will greatly decrease the volume of semen ejaculated. Keep in mind that I have not properly ejaculated now for a 3-4 weeks, which is probably an all-time record for me.

Every time I have had an O when I have felt reasonably relaxed, it's worked perfectly. It's only the occasions when I felt tense that Silodosin didn't do its job.

Hurray,

Thanks for the update!  You described 5 different O's, with varying amounts of semen/pre-ejaculate in each one.  But, you only told us about "no POIS" for the first O.  Could you describe whether you had POIS symptoms following the other O's?

[daveman]

OK, another update on the Silodosin.

I started a few days ago with a 12mg "one-off" dose, waited a few hours, had an O with no fluid leakage and no POIS. Had gf assisted O that night, pre-ejaculate leakage but no semen resulted.

Took the standard 8mg dose the following day, another O, no fluid leakage.

Took another 8mg dose the following day. By now I was feeling very "highly strung", sexually tense, I don't know the correct term. I could feel that my body (and brain) REALLY wanted to get rid of some semen. Sure enough, my next O resulted in a small amount of semen leakage. Another unplanned gf O later that night resulted in pre-ejaculate but not semen.

My experience of Silodosin so far is that if your mind/body is desperate to ejaculate, Silodosin won't do enough to stop it, although it will greatly decrease the volume of semen ejaculated. Keep in mind that I have not properly ejaculated now for a 3-4 weeks, which is probably an all-time record for me.

Every time I have had an O when I have felt reasonably relaxed, it's worked perfectly. It's only the occasions when I felt tense that Silodosin didn't do its job.

And no POIS throught, or did you get a little POIS with the light leakage.

Edit: Anyways, if I had that many "O"s in that short period of time I'd be greenish grey on the floor twitching.

[daveman]

alright guys, i tried dicoflenac and nsaid antiinflammatory drug in one of the research papers, i used it at night so i can go right to sleep i woke up the next day no fatigue.

What research paper?

Postorgasm Illness Syndrome—A Spectrum of Illnessesjsm_1707 1976..1981
Jane Ashby, MRCP, and David Goldmeier, MRCP
First Case.

I only used dicoflenac, but according to wiki it is strongest nsaid accross the board.
I have tried over the counter naproxen with no help, in a weeks time i will try again without dicoflenac but right now i wanna see if i heal quicker.

NIGHTNALE; it is okay if i contact greer lab to see if they have similar lab closer to where i live, am asking because i dont to mess up what you have going on then.
I think i have at least two doctors that will be willing to call it in for me.
Does insurance cover something like that.

For me Iboprofen works best, but it just masks the symptoms. And I have to repeat my warning about liver damage with prolonged use. (for ALL of the NSAIDs)

[daveman]

We've all talked about the horrendous POIS symptoms that last forever...have we found any information on what "normal" orgasm does to people...afterwards?

Is it just a short-lived drowsy glow, or is there more to it than that?

Could you repeat the question in other words???  []

[carlitto]

what most bothers me are my red itchy and tired eyes for three days after O. Is anyone of you using eye drops to calm the redness and make the eyes look OK?

[hurray]

OK, another update on the Silodosin.

I started a few days ago with a 12mg "one-off" dose, waited a few hours, had an O with no fluid leakage and no POIS. Had gf assisted O that night, pre-ejaculate leakage but no semen resulted.

Took the standard 8mg dose the following day, another O, no fluid leakage.

Took another 8mg dose the following day. By now I was feeling very "highly strung", sexually tense, I don't know the correct term. I could feel that my body (and brain) REALLY wanted to get rid of some semen. Sure enough, my next O resulted in a small amount of semen leakage. Another unplanned gf O later that night resulted in pre-ejaculate but not semen.

My experience of Silodosin so far is that if your mind/body is desperate to ejaculate, Silodosin won't do enough to stop it, although it will greatly decrease the volume of semen ejaculated. Keep in mind that I have not properly ejaculated now for a 3-4 weeks, which is probably an all-time record for me.

Every time I have had an O when I have felt reasonably relaxed, it's worked perfectly. It's only the occasions when I felt tense that Silodosin didn't do its job.

Hurray,

Thanks for the update!  You described 5 different O's, with varying amounts of semen/pre-ejaculate in each one.  But, you only told us about "no POIS" for the first O.  Could you describe whether you had POIS symptoms following the other O's?

Hi Guthrie,

The Os involving no semen/pre-ejaculate were genuine none-POIS orgasms. The ones involving pre-ejaculate gave me the usual mild POIS symptoms that I would get from arousal but not ejaculation. The ones involving a small amount of semen gave me POIS symptoms that seemed lighter than normal.

My main problem when establishing exactly how much POIS each one gave me were the side-effects from the Silodosin (making me feel sleepy in a non-POIS manner), plus the fact that I continued to consume fairly large quantities of fenugreek during my tests, and my other main precaution (a large meal after an O).

Many issues related to "real life" meant that I could not risk allowing myself to feel as bad as possible by not taking my usual precautions. In an ideal world, I would have given myself a few weeks in isolation to do this, but my job makes such draconian measures impossible.

My main disappointment with the experiments was that the non-POIS Os left me feeling fine in the short-term, but within 12-24 hours I would still be feeling intense sexual urges. Going 2-3 weeks without full ejaculation isn't easy  [] I had hoped that the Os with dry ejaculation would "reboot" my sexual urges, but it didn't work like this for me, sadly.

Everybody on the forum has different symptoms and experiences, so Silodosin may be the answer to the prayers of some people. I can see it being particularly helpful for those who abstain entirely from ejaculation and wish to avoid NEs - Silodosin might well do a good job for these people.

And yes, usually 5 orgasms would completely floor me for several days, with or without fenugreek, so it has certainly proved itself as an interesting option. Just be wary of any side-effects, and consult with your physician before taking any further steps.

[martin88]

My main disappointment with the experiments was that the non-POIS Os left me feeling fine in the short-term, but within 12-24 hours I would still be feeling intense sexual urges. Going 2-3 weeks without full ejaculation isn't easy  [] I had hoped that the Os with dry ejaculation would "reboot" my sexual urges, but it didn't work like this for me, sadly.

Interesting Hurray. The way you describe this, it seems the stored semen is what is causing sexual urge and tension. I always wanted to know that. I often feel that this tension is stimulating for me and this helps to cure my POIS after 2 weeks (or more) of abstinence. Perhaps with enough time this tension would be replaced by something better, more relax.

[martin88]

In POIS some people have weak legs and lower back pain. These are very significant symptoms for me.
Weak legs to the point my legs are shaking when climbing a ladder.
When I was a teen, constantly in POIS, I couldn't climb a very high ladder and walk on a sloped roof.

Also I very clearly have weak legs DURING an orgasm.

Interestingly there is a disease called "Transverse Myelitis" causing weak legs, lower back pain and other symptoms including bladder dysfunction. Scientists say it's caused by spinal cord inflammation  (nerve linked with orgasm). Some diseases are associated with transverse myelitis: Lyme disease, viruses, autoimmune or vascular conditions (blood flow), there is more in the first link below. One third of patients have flu-like symptoms.

http://www.myelitis.org/tm.htm
http://www.brainandspine.org.uk/information/publications/brain_and_spine_booklets/transverse_myelitis/tests_and.html

I don't say POIS have this disease but I now think POIS or a part of it has to do with spinal cord inflammation.

[daveman]

what most bothers me are my red itchy and tired eyes for three days after O. Is anyone of you using eye drops to calm the redness and make the eyes look OK?

Yeah eyes... I use drops which help a bit, I'll have to look up the ingredients.... here in Chile the medicines aren't the same as there.

What I'm looking for are butt drops!!

If you get my drift.

Edit: How would the spec sheet on that one read??

Lie on your back, remove pants..... no, no, I just don't know...!

[daveman]

OK, another update on the Silodosin.

I started a few days ago with a 12mg "one-off" dose, waited a few hours, had an O with no fluid leakage and no POIS. Had gf assisted O that night, pre-ejaculate leakage but no semen resulted.

Took the standard 8mg dose the following day, another O, no fluid leakage.

Took another 8mg dose the following day. By now I was feeling very "highly strung", sexually tense, I don't know the correct term. I could feel that my body (and brain) REALLY wanted to get rid of some semen. Sure enough, my next O resulted in a small amount of semen leakage. Another unplanned gf O later that night resulted in pre-ejaculate but not semen.

My experience of Silodosin so far is that if your mind/body is desperate to ejaculate, Silodosin won't do enough to stop it, although it will greatly decrease the volume of semen ejaculated. Keep in mind that I have not properly ejaculated now for a 3-4 weeks, which is probably an all-time record for me.

Every time I have had an O when I have felt reasonably relaxed, it's worked perfectly. It's only the occasions when I felt tense that Silodosin didn't do its job.

Hurray,

Thanks for the update!  You described 5 different O's, with varying amounts of semen/pre-ejaculate in each one.  But, you only told us about "no POIS" for the first O.  Could you describe whether you had POIS symptoms following the other O's?

Hi Guthrie,

The Os involving no semen/pre-ejaculate were genuine none-POIS orgasms. The ones involving pre-ejaculate gave me the usual mild POIS symptoms that I would get from arousal but not ejaculation. The ones involving a small amount of semen gave me POIS symptoms that seemed lighter than normal.

My main problem when establishing exactly how much POIS each one gave me were the side-effects from the Silodosin (making me feel sleepy in a non-POIS manner), plus the fact that I continued to consume fairly large quantities of fenugreek during my tests, and my other main precaution (a large meal after an O).

Many issues related to "real life" meant that I could not risk allowing myself to feel as bad as possible by not taking my usual precautions. In an ideal world, I would have given myself a few weeks in isolation to do this, but my job makes such draconian measures impossible.

My main disappointment with the experiments was that the non-POIS Os left me feeling fine in the short-term, but within 12-24 hours I would still be feeling intense sexual urges. Going 2-3 weeks without full ejaculation isn't easy  [] I had hoped that the Os with dry ejaculation would "reboot" my sexual urges, but it didn't work like this for me, sadly.

Everybody on the forum has different symptoms and experiences, so Silodosin may be the answer to the prayers of some people. I can see it being particularly helpful for those who abstain entirely from ejaculation and wish to avoid NEs - Silodosin might well do a good job for these people.

And yes, usually 5 orgasms would completely floor me for several days, with or without fenugreek, so it has certainly proved itself as an interesting option. Just be wary of any side-effects, and consult with your physician before taking any further steps.

Anyways, in all, very positive results. All the documentation pointed to the side effects yet, the reduction in POIS symptoms is very positive support for the Dr. Waldinger theory.

There are at least 2 other male contraceptive methods that need to be proven. I am in high favour of the T/P process. Hope to work my financial situation to where I can try it. Are there any others ready to jump in on other parallel processes?

[daveman]

My main disappointment with the experiments was that the non-POIS Os left me feeling fine in the short-term, but within 12-24 hours I would still be feeling intense sexual urges. Going 2-3 weeks without full ejaculation isn't easy  [] I had hoped that the Os with dry ejaculation would "reboot" my sexual urges, but it didn't work like this for me, sadly.

Interesting Hurray. The way you describe this, it seems the stored semen is what is causing sexual urge and tension. I always wanted to know that. I often feel that this tension is stimulating for me and this helps to cure my POIS after 2 weeks (or more) of abstinence. Perhaps with enough time this tension would be replaced by something better, more relax.

This sort of ties in with what Demo says.... and even Dr. Waldinger..

At first, there's the period where the sperm level says "OK, time to find a reciever!" (We're ready) Then,  once the system realizes that that isn't going to happen, it starts disposing. Once that begins, the urge flattens out. Libido may remain high, but flattens. At this point we are absorbing sperm naturally and in balance.

If we loose our sperm (finding the recipient, or a helping hand so to speak), we naturally want to replenish it. But, we also begin POIS (because of this allergy we have). In POIS the whole auto-immune system is on alert. We see this, as whatever sensitivity we migh have flares up more easily. So we are highly sensitive to the new production phase of POIS. And this accentuates the Type IV reaction. With Type IV we are now into a cell mediated process that works more universally.

If the recuperation process is fast, we nip the Type IV process in the bud. This process eliminates the original offenders rapidly. And we move to the begining of the cycle where we want to find that "recipient" again. Oh my, those are beautiful eyes you have...!!

Chapter II (Alice goes to Wonderland!)....  no wait.. I'm wandering.

[CertainlyPOIS]

[/quote]

Hello gentlemen
I do not have that phobia to light or sound... but this may be because I am used to the sun on the mediterranean; as a matter of fact I cannot live without sun. Does anyone have any sort of statistics related to POIS and skin color? Are there any dark-skinned memebers of this forum?
[/quote]


yeah i am very dark skinned. pois dosent spare you by skin color.

[/quote]

[CertainlyPOIS]

alright guys, i tried dicoflenac and nsaid antiinflammatory drug in one of the research papers, i used it at night so i can go right to sleep i woke up the next day no fatigue.

For me Iboprofen works best, but it just masks the symptoms. And I have to repeat my warning about liver damage with prolonged use. (for ALL of the NSAIDs)

Yeah those sideeffects are scary.  I dont intend on using it every week like in the paper,am going to do once a month(ask doctor if that is safe for longterm use) and try to prevent NE and Dreams for the remaining thee weeks.
I continue using diclofenac 2 days after orgasm, so i hope by doing that  is stoping type iv inflammation from happening and hopefully not just masking the problem.

[CertainlyPOIS]

In POIS some people have weak legs and lower back pain. These are very significant symptoms for me.
Weak legs to the point my legs are shaking when climbing a ladder.
When I was a teen, constantly in POIS, I couldn't climb a very high ladder and walk on a sloped roof.

Also I very clearly have weak legs DURING an orgasm.

Interestingly there is a disease called "Transverse Myelitis" causing weak legs, lower back pain and other symptoms including bladder dysfunction. Scientists say it's caused by spinal cord inflammation  (nerve linked with orgasm). Some diseases are associated with transverse myelitis: Lyme disease, viruses, autoimmune or vascular conditions (blood flow), there is more in the first link below. One third of patients have flu-like symptoms.

http://www.myelitis.org/tm.htm
http://www.brainandspine.org.uk/information/publications/brain_and_spine_booklets/transverse_myelitis/tests_and.html

I don't say POIS have this disease but I now think POIS or a part of it has to do with spinal cord inflammation.

I used to get really bad burning lower back sensations, there is still there now but not as bad.

[daveman]

Hello gentlemen
I do not have that phobia to light or sound... but this may be because I am used to the sun on the mediterranean; as a matter of fact I cannot live without sun. Does anyone have any sort of statistics related to POIS and skin color? Are there any dark-skinned memebers of this forum?

I'd say it has more to do with Vitamin D than skin color. I'm not sure who's more apt to accumulate vitamin D from the sun, someone with darker, or lighter skin.

My Mom's a Brit. pink (white you could say) skin. Here in Chile with it's mediterranean climate, I suffer much less in summer. No (zero) systems no (zero) clouds for 3.5 months solid.

Being in day 1 today I noticed that I'm very sensitive to light change, have poor vision, my ears ring and sounds are sort of jumbled. There's a feeling that it's more in my brain than in the eyes and ears..... The signals are poorly processed.

It's strange though, because light is a problem, yet I need more to see properly. I have to read colors on these stupid resistors, but can't tell the difference between one or the other without about 1000 Watts of light. (and a magnifying glass like jewlers use). Out of POIS, I'm normal.

 

[Guthrie]

Hurray,

Thanks for the update!  You described 5 different O's, with varying amounts of semen/pre-ejaculate in each one.  But, you only told us about "no POIS" for the first O.  Could you describe whether you had POIS symptoms following the other O's?

Hi Guthrie,

The Os involving no semen/pre-ejaculate were genuine none-POIS orgasms. The ones involving pre-ejaculate gave me the usual mild POIS symptoms that I would get from arousal but not ejaculation. The ones involving a small amount of semen gave me POIS symptoms that seemed lighter than normal.

My main problem when establishing exactly how much POIS each one gave me were the side-effects from the Silodosin (making me feel sleepy in a non-POIS manner), plus the fact that I continued to consume fairly large quantities of fenugreek during my tests, and my other main precaution (a large meal after an O).

Many issues related to "real life" meant that I could not risk allowing myself to feel as bad as possible by not taking my usual precautions. In an ideal world, I would have given myself a few weeks in isolation to do this, but my job makes such draconian measures impossible.

My main disappointment with the experiments was that the non-POIS Os left me feeling fine in the short-term, but within 12-24 hours I would still be feeling intense sexual urges. Going 2-3 weeks without full ejaculation isn't easy  [] I had hoped that the Os with dry ejaculation would "reboot" my sexual urges, but it didn't work like this for me, sadly.

Everybody on the forum has different symptoms and experiences, so Silodosin may be the answer to the prayers of some people. I can see it being particularly helpful for those who abstain entirely from ejaculation and wish to avoid NEs - Silodosin might well do a good job for these people.

And yes, usually 5 orgasms would completely floor me for several days, with or without fenugreek, so it has certainly proved itself as an interesting option. Just be wary of any side-effects, and consult with your physician before taking any further steps.

Very interesting!  So, even if silodosin was not fully a 'magic bullet' for you, it does seem to demonstrate that it is not orgasm, but fluid release, that causes POIS.

Since you've said:
Orgasm + no pre-ejaculate + no semen = zero symptoms.
And, orgasm + pre-ejaculate + no semen = only the symptoms that you'd have with pre-ejaculate leakage without orgasm.
That is to say, in both of these cases, the orgasm itself causes zero additional symptoms.

Thus, it really does seem like "movement of semen" is the main culprit.  And, for those of us who do not react to pre-ejaculate leakage, a 'dry' silodosin orgasm would mean: no symptoms!

So, even if silodosin is not the ultimate solution in terms of treatment of POIS, it seems like it has been very fruitful in contributing to our understanding of POIS.  Who would have thought that it would be possible to so easily test the effects of orgasm as distinguished from ejaculation? 

It also seems that this could provide a structure for a very easy research study for Dr. Waldinger or another researcher: he could simply have his 45 Dutch patients (or other POIS sufferers) take silodosin for three days, have a semen-less orgasm, and then report the effects.  (Or technically, for a double-blind survey, half the patients could be given silodosin, and half could be given a sugar pill.)  And, voila, another article can be published!

And, beyond just POIS, this could also contribute interesting findings to our understanding of the physiology of male sexuality on a broader level.

[Guthrie]

If we loose our sperm (finding the recipient, or a helping hand so to speak), we naturally want to replenish it. But, we also begin POIS (because of this allergy we have). In POIS the whole auto-immune system is on alert. We see this, as whatever sensitivity we migh have flares up more easily. So we are highly sensitive to the new production phase of POIS. And this accentuates the Type IV reaction. With Type IV we are now into a cell mediated process that works more universally.

If the recuperation process is fast, we nip the Type IV process in the bud. This process eliminates the original offenders rapidly. And we move to the begining of the cycle where we want to find that "recipient" again. Oh my, those are beautiful eyes you have...!

Daveman, can you explain more about why you think that a faster recuperation process is linked to nipping the type IV process in the bud?   By 'recuperation', do you mean the production of new sperm?  How would this stop a type IV reaction that has already been started?