[Itsthatskater]

I have to say guys, This is great considering everyone is trying to help eachother. I dont know what to do anymore, This feels like its killing me knowing that I have to pay everytime I ejaculate, My symptoms only last 48 hours. I feel great without POIS. I honestly dont think its an allergy but i would try any type of medicine made to help.

[makrofag]

I've stumbled onto an interesting piece about Niacin, Adrenaline and a substance called Adrenochrome which is claimed to be hallucinogenic (people's experience with it confirms its effects). That kind of gave me an idea for the origin of the brain-fog and the whole batch of psychological effects (feelings of being disconnected from reality, problems with social contact and etc).

http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1990/pdf/1990-v05n01-p032.pdf [nofollow]

The paper is mainly about schizophrenia but the main idea is that under certain circumstances the adrenaline in the blood breaks down into Adrenochrome which if present in higher amounts can cause certain effects on the human brain (possible brain-fog origin).

It sounds wild I know but what is interesting that I've seen many times results of POIS people that many had abnormal noradrenaline levels (this maybe requires a proper search the forums). From what i've read in the paper and elsewhere the noradrenaline breaks down to adrenaline and that breaks down to adrenochrome. This is also very interesting because I personally felt that POIS was a very strong and long lasting flight-or-fight response to my orgasms but I grew used to the feeling so I've kind of forgot about the flight-or-fight aspect of it and just focused on the brain fog. But still the flight-or-fight base always manifested itself when I was eating food and my mouth was overly salivating or when I touched a hot object my body would react in an extreme manner. Does anyone else also felt or feel that there's a flight-or-fight aspect to the POIS?

Anyway Niacin according to the paper is a substance that can protect the brain tissue against the effects of adenochrome.

Victor kons. if you're reading this - could this be the reason while you were trying with your doctor other vasolidators that only Niacin or Xanthiol Nicotinate really worked in preventing onset of the POIS symptoms??? It's kind of suspicious that other pro vasolidators were not really working.

[Quasar]

I've stumbled onto an interesting piece about Niacin, Adrenaline and a substance called Adrenochrome which is claimed to be hallucinogenic (people's experience with it confirms its effects). That kind of gave me an idea for the origin of the brain-fog and the whole batch of psychological effects (feelings of being disconnected from reality, problems with social contact and etc).

http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1990/pdf/1990-v05n01-p032.pdf

The paper is mainly about schizophrenia but the main idea is that under certain circumstances the adrenaline in the blood breaks down into Adrenochrome which if present in higher amounts can cause certain effects on the human brain (possible brain-fog origin).

It sounds wild I know but what is interesting that I've seen many times results of POIS people that many had abnormal noradrenaline levels (this maybe requires a proper search the forums). From what i've read in the paper and elsewhere the noradrenaline breaks down to adrenaline and that breaks down to adrenochrome. This is also very interesting because I personally felt that POIS was a very strong and long lasting flight-or-fight response to my orgasms but I grew used to the feeling so I've kind of forgot about the flight-or-fight aspect of it and just focused on the brain fog. But still the flight-or-fight base always manifested itself when I was eating food and my mouth was overly salivating or when I touched a hot object my body would react in an extreme manner. Does anyone else also felt or feel that there's a flight-or-fight aspect to the POIS?

Anyway Niacin according to the paper is a substance that can protect the brain tissue against the effects of adenochrome.

Victor kons. if you're reading this - could this be the reason while you were trying with your doctor other vasolidators that only Niacin or Xanthiol Nicotinate really worked in preventing onset of the POIS symptoms??? It's kind of suspicious that other pro vasolidators were not really working.

Interesting...I also feel sometimes that fight-or-fly response. We already know the Niacin flush and vasodilation happens because of a release of peripheral serotonin, and this seems to be helping us. However, if it is true that Niacin also has adrenaline-protective properties to the brain, then this is very interesting, because we know that alpha and beta blockers are medicines that can protect us from the adrenaline effects.

In fact, some posts ago, i recommended the use of 3rd generation beta-blockers, for their migraine preventive actions(they reduce serotonin in the brain), and their vasodilating actions.

So, it could be, that Niacin has this double-effect that is helpful for us: the antimigraine effect, and the adrenaline protective effect.

Here you can see the comparison between the adrenergic receptors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenergic_receptor#Comparison

The problem is that we still don't know what alpha/s or beta receptor/s are the most damaging to us. But one very interesting to try would be Carvedilol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carvedilol , because it blocks both alpha and beta receptors. Another one that i would recommend is Nevibolol, because improves the release of nitric oxide, but it is more selective that Carvedilol.

Take a look at this sentence i've found from someone in the Internet: "This cardiologist is willing to prescribe the nitro pills as needed, but thought that carvedilol/coreg would help these episodes longer term because it would address my elevated norepinephrine levels (it's an alpha1, beta1&2 blocker)."

Also, a natural alpha-2 blocker is Yohimbine, but it is also selective.

[Habibou]

I tried some alpha blockers and my POIS was even worse  [] but never beta blockers !

[victor.kons]

I've stumbled onto an interesting piece about Niacin, Adrenaline and a substance called Adrenochrome which is claimed to be hallucinogenic (people's experience with it confirms its effects). That kind of gave me an idea for the origin of the brain-fog and the whole batch of psychological effects (feelings of being disconnected from reality, problems with social contact and etc).

http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1990/pdf/1990-v05n01-p032.pdf

The paper is mainly about schizophrenia but the main idea is that under certain circumstances the adrenaline in the blood breaks down into Adrenochrome which if present in higher amounts can cause certain effects on the human brain (possible brain-fog origin).

It sounds wild I know but what is interesting that I've seen many times results of POIS people that many had abnormal noradrenaline levels (this maybe requires a proper search the forums). From what i've read in the paper and elsewhere the noradrenaline breaks down to adrenaline and that breaks down to adrenochrome. This is also very interesting because I personally felt that POIS was a very strong and long lasting flight-or-fight response to my orgasms but I grew used to the feeling so I've kind of forgot about the flight-or-fight aspect of it and just focused on the brain fog. But still the flight-or-fight base always manifested itself when I was eating food and my mouth was overly salivating or when I touched a hot object my body would react in an extreme manner. Does anyone else also felt or feel that there's a flight-or-fight aspect to the POIS?

Anyway Niacin according to the paper is a substance that can protect the brain tissue against the effects of adenochrome.

Victor kons. if you're reading this - could this be the reason while you were trying with your doctor other vasolidators that only Niacin or Xanthiol Nicotinate really worked in preventing onset of the POIS symptoms??? It's kind of suspicious that other pro vasolidators were not really working.

Hi Markfrag!

Interesting idea. I think flight or fight reaction is natural to being in uncomfortable state.

Personally, when I have some kind of pain or discomfort I become aggressive, no matter in POIS I am or just have a pain, and I overreact when in pain or discomfort, this is also true. I generally overreact to discomfort.

When in POIS its somehow becomes twofold. From one side I overreact, from the other side the reaction is DELAYED, or its absent, because it is SLOWED DOWN.

Regarding vasolidators. Yes, we have tried a bunch of different vasolidators and they didn't help. I can think only of one another vasolidator that helped, but it was far far overdosed, this vasolidator is Vinpocetine(kavinton). The doctor tried this vasolidator when I was in POIS and she tried to return me back to normal state quickly and she succeeded one time. I don't know maybe it was a placebo, maybe not, but it was only one time. As I said the doctor tried very high one time dose and she said this is not really a solution, because its dangerous in such doses at the same time with normal doses it didn't have an effect. But when she injected me kavinton, I remember that I was really thrown away from POIS in a matter of seconds and returned back to normal state. This sounds like a tale, I know, but I was very very surprised of this effect and I really started to believe that cure against POIS can exist after this incident!

Hm, actually, I recalled. There was another drug that helped. I've tried it several times and it really worked. But it is dangerous because it has the negative effect on "man's health". I don't remember the name of the drug, but it was prescription-type drug and it was used to help those people that have schizophrenia Recalled the name! It was eglonil! It had the stable effect and I injected it before O the same way like XN. I've tried 5-10 times and had no POIS after injection.

Warning! Don't take any of these drugs without consultation of your doctor. They can be dangerous!

Victor

[Quasar]

I tried some alpha blockers and my POIS was even worse  [] but never beta blockers !

Habibou, good to know that! I think some alpha/beta blockers are not going to work, because they are a lot of differences between them. They are some that have quite side effects. But the new ones have less side effects, and they help in releasing nitric oxide. Also, some are useful for migraine prevention, and some are not. I think that for being useful for migraine prevention they need to block the B1 receptor: "The action of migraine preventive drugs is uncertain, but it is believed to result from the inhibition of β1- mediated mechanism. β- blockade results in inhibition of 5-HT release from the monoaminergic nuclei (raphe nuclei) and of the NE from the locus coeruleus to prevent disturbances in vascular control systems."

Also, here it says that alpha blockers are usually less effective than beta blockers to prevent migraines:

"Commonly known as Catapres, clonidine is an alpha blocker that also protects the blood vessels. Not as effective as beta-blockers, but it does seem to be of special help if you suffer a lot from migraine attacks"

So, we don't know if Niacin protects from the action of alpha, beta, or both adrenergic receptors...but i believe Nebivolol and Carvedilol would be two meds very interesting to try, because they have few side effects, they don't cause erectile dysfuncion, they have potential to prevent migraines, and both improve the release of nitric oxide.

Don't forget that beta-blockers need weeks/months to start working...

[POIS-SUFFERER]

You need 60mg of tryptophan to synthetize 1mg of niacin.(other co-factor for this synthesis : B6, B2 and magnesium. This is very interesting for me because I have a chronic magnesium deficiency and I have fasciculation, especially hours after orgasm )

Wow very interesting, I am very glad I Googled "fasciculation" as I get this also! I always wondered why.....

Fasciculation is a "twitching" under the skin basically....

It mainly appears on my lips, but can also show up at the bottom of my nose, and sometimes the back of my hand, usually the right one.

I also just read that Fasciculation can be caused by Benzo withdrawal, I do take often every 1-2 days 1mg of ATIVAN, however this is a very low dose.... and I ONLY take it when feeling very POISY, so not sure on this one.

PS.

[Itsthatskater]

Alright guys i figured out the feeling i get after ejaculation. Everyone here knows the feeling of an orgasm so after i get that feeling i literally feel my strength being sucked out of me. Similar to the feeling after vomiting where you feel the life sucked out. It might just be a mental thing that makes us feel physically weak during POIS.

Anyway the next day when i woke up I felt weak and undermotivated. So i thought a big breakfast will help me out. When i woke up this is what I had

-2 large glasses of water to rehydrate myself (that could be a causing factor in POIS)

-1 banana (health wise and bananas give energy )

-1 large glass of Milk

-My two multivitimans (If those who have POIS arent on Multivitimans, Definitly try them out because they contain most things your body does not get normally including niacin)

-Grapes (healthy)

-Macoroni (why not? )

After the meal i felt great, I didnt get my physical strength but i felt little if any brain fog and felt motivated as well.

I dont know if this can help but just some interesting information.

[Vincent M]

okay I've taken Niacin 2 times in a row. The first night I took 100mg right after dinner and an hour before orgasm. I didn't notice a flush, but I seemed to have more energy around the afternoon of the next day.

The night after I took 200mg of Niacin about 10hrs after eating anything and an hour before orgasm. I definitely got a flush about 30min after I took the pills. My arms were completely red and hot and itchy all over as were my ears and feet. I had an orgasm right when the flush was wearing off and while I did feel tired right after I orgasmed, after I laid down for a couple minutes I noticed I could still think somewhat clearly, which I'm never able to do immediately after orgasm. I felt okay today, but I had another orgasm or two during the night so I'm not 100% yet. I do notice that today my physical energy and stamina are greatly increased. For instance my arms feel a lot lighter if I lift one up and all movement simply happens so much easier than usual. If these results happen every time I take niacin I will conclude that it is definitely worth taking regularly, perhaps once a week so my body doesn't get too used to it.

[Mer]

Has anyone seen this? http://www.herballove.com/article.asp?art=171 [nofollow]
Serotonin level!

[demografx]

Has anyone seen this? http://www.herballove.com/article.asp?art=171
Serotonin level!

Mer, herballove.com has been thoroughly discredited here numerous times.

[victor.kons]

okay I've taken Niacin 2 times in a row. The first night I took 100mg right after dinner and an hour before orgasm. I didn't notice a flush, but I seemed to have more energy around the afternoon of the next day.

The night after I took 200mg of Niacin about 10hrs after eating anything and an hour before orgasm. I definitely got a flush about 30min after I took the pills. My arms were completely red and hot and itchy all over as were my ears and feet. I had an orgasm right when the flush was wearing off and while I did feel tired right after I orgasmed, after I laid down for a couple minutes I noticed I could still think somewhat clearly, which I'm never able to do immediately after orgasm. I felt okay today, but I had another orgasm or two during the night so I'm not 100% yet. I do notice that today my physical energy and stamina are greatly increased. For instance my arms feel a lot lighter if I lift one up and all movement simply happens so much easier than usual. If these results happen every time I take niacin I will conclude that it is definitely worth taking regularly, perhaps once a week so my body doesn't get too used to it.

Good to know, Vincent. Thank you for your report!

I feel okay when have multiple O's after taking Niacin. I take Niacin 2-3 times a week and the effect on POIS still the same, but the flush is lighter now.

Victor

[horizon]

Pinhole glasses are good for POIS.

Horizon, can you please elaborate on that?

yep, i get about 50%+ relief wearing them..until i take them off

[Itsthatskater]

Has anyone thought about allergy tablets?

I have also been reading about a drug called Fexofenadine, its an allergy fight drug that says it takes away some of the symptoms we suffer from. I will take it and let you guys know how i feel.

[CertainlyPOIS]

Has anyone thought about allergy tablets?

I have also been reading about a drug called Fexofenadine, its an allergy fight drug that says it takes away some of the symptoms we suffer from. I will take it and let you guys know how i feel.

I think for cognition problems(if that is one of your main problems) you will  one that cross blood brain barrier eaisily like these ones, brompheniramine, carbinoxamine malate, chlorpheniramine, and diphenhydramine .

fexofenadine might stop physical symptoms but i doubt it will affect mental symptoms.

[CertainlyPOIS]

Dont forget to Post on the other forum if you want your topic to be discussed in greater detail.

[demografx]

Dont forget to Post on the other forum if you want your topic to be discussed in greater detail.

CC, thanks for the reminder!

[demografx]

Pinhole glasses are good for POIS.

Horizon, can you please elaborate on that?

yep, i get about 50%+ [POIS] relief wearing them..until i take them off

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinhole_glasses

[daveman]

Pinhole glasses are good for POIS.

Horizon, can you please elaborate on that?

yep, i get about 50%+ [POIS] relief wearing them..until i take them off

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinhole_glasses

That's cool about the pinhole glasses. Makes a lot os sense. When we are in Brain Fog, lessening the confusion aby way possible has got to help.

When I need to read something, or a night when I need to see what time it is, I make a small hole with my fingers, and look through that, much easier to focus.

[B_Daniel]

I wanted to try T-therapy, but to see an endocrinologist you've first got to see your primary and get lab work done.  So I had some blood lab-work performed finally. 

The doc had me get a whole bunch of things tested but there were the only 3 i thought that matter to us.  Here are my results:

Testosterone, serum:         540 ng/dL      Reference interval 249 - 836
Free Testosterone (direct): 13.3 pg/mL    Reference interval 9.3  - 26.5
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy:      43.0 ng/mL    Reference interval 32  - 100

So none are low.  The Vitamin D may just be normal bc just 2 weeks prior I had been in the sun for 2 weeks straight.  The testosterone though I was surprised about, given all the discussion we have on this site about pois closely correlating with low T - I had all but assumed mine was low. 

Anyway, so I asked my primary about putting me on T-therapy.  He said NO given my normal levels.  I then asked him to refer me to an endo to discuss this with.  He was hesitant to do so bc he said he greatly advises I dont take an unnecessary risk with T-therapy (he thinks there's a 0% chance it'll help me), but begrudgingly agreed.  I asked him to refer me to one of the best doctors in the area... the supervising physician in UCSF's endocrinology dept, whose name is Dr. Blake Tyrell.  My doctor sent him an email, which he didn't let me see.  But here is Dr. Tyrell's response:   

... I have heard of this once (POIS) before but could find no evidence that it is an endocrine disorder.
Given that his testosterone is 540, I would agree that androgen therapy is not indicated.
So-we would not see him."

I can't say I'm surprised by that.   But I thought I'd share.  I have found an internist who also has a phD in sexology - so I have an appt with that guy in a month.  hopefully that yields better results