[GoingCrazy]

So had one of those "O" things after almost 3 weeks and noticed something. I felt crap this morning. Brain not functioning, inability to remember facts etc. Took 100mg of niacin (as I've been doing) and noticed no flush after a few hours. Another 100mg and no flush. Another 50mg 3 hours after that and the flush started. Post flush, I could think more clearly. This suggests that I was undergoing some kind of b3 depletion (and/or related b vitamins as described in the theory at http://www.poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=197.0)
Has anyone else had a similar experience and how much niacin are you guys taking to relieve the symptoms?
Also had another thought, is there any female analogue to POIS?

I'm taking the Sloniacin, something I found at Walmart, its composed of 500mg niacin and is formulated to reduce flushing.  It's definitely a remedy to help relax the brain and improve symptoms.  But unfortunately for me it only works for a limited amount of time.  Like I can get POIS, than take niacin, feel better, the niacin wears off, than I feel POIS again.

Right now I have crazy POIS, I O'd 6 times yesterday...

[Guitarninja2]

Hi jake, could you please let us know, by using your 'drink water before sleep' method, how long have you managed to prevent a wet dream from happening?

Thanks

Hmm.. well.. I've been drinking a full bottle of water, and I've noticed that perhaps when the body has pressure on the bladder during sleep, it seems to prevent the body from having an O. In this case, during sleep. It worked for a while, until I started going to the bathroom half way through my sleep patterns. It seems that after I do this, I go back to sleep and it happens. Maybe it's linked somehow.

[kurtosis]

I'm taking the Sloniacin, something I found at Walmart, its composed of 500mg niacin and is formulated to reduce flushing.  It's definitely a remedy to help relax the brain and improve symptoms.  But unfortunately for me it only works for a limited amount of time.  Like I can get POIS, than take niacin, feel better, the niacin wears off, than I feel POIS again.

Right now I have crazy POIS, I O'd 6 times yesterday...

Hmm, having 6 O's in one day might wear anybody out Interestingly, since the O, I've only had 1 flush despite doubling my dose. Whereas in my state of O-lessness (over 3 weeks) I was flushing every day after 150mg.

[cornelius]

I've updated my post about newbielink:http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=226.0 [nonactive], to reflect my current thinking on what caused my case of POIS and what I did to escape the ejaculation->collapse cycle. Follow the link if you're interested.


I'm also selling quite a lot of newbielink:http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=245.0 [nonactive], which proved quite beneficial to me when I was in the depths of POIS, but which I no longer take, as I am no longer suffering from POIS.


I now believe that my POIS case was caused by acute depression, and that the Fenugreek and Saw Palmetto either helped with the depression or had a placebo effect -- either way, I saw positive effects from taking them, effects which went away if I missed taking them for a day. It's from Vitacost.com and is all unopened and sealed. I wouldn't sell it on to you guys if it hadn't helped me out.


If you're interested, contact me on the other forum.

[kurtosis]

I've updated my post about how I got out of the POIS nightmare, to reflect my current thinking on what caused my case of POIS and what I did to escape the ejaculation->collapse cycle. Follow the link if you're interested.

I now believe that my POIS case was caused by acute depression, and that the Fenugreek and Saw Palmetto either helped with the depression or had a placebo effect -- either way, I saw positive effects from taking them, effects which went away if I missed taking them for a day. It's from Vitacost.com and is all unopened and sealed. I wouldn't sell it on to you guys if it hadn't helped me out.


If you're interested, contact me on the other forum.

I read through your post. To be honest about this, I think you were understandably depressed AND that you had POIS. If POIS is a disease which affects someone as soon as they start having orgasms then you'd probably always remember having POIS but its severity may worsen as you grow older and it takes a greater toll on your nervous system. Indeed it may indicate that the catch all "ADD" describes illnesses that affect catecholamine levels in a similar manner to POIS. People who first start experiencing ADHD during puberty may actually have POIS and this illness may not be as rare as we believe. Some There's been significant discussion on this group positing that catecholamine depletion could be what's effecting our nervous systems. Every treatment that people are reporting has a benefit seems to raise our levels of dopamine and/or norepinephrine. Strattera will absolutely affect your levels of norepinephrine. If this works for you then that's great and we should all consider it.

However, (& I don't intend any offense) ADD is one of the vaguest diagnosis as the disposal of psychiatrists YET the treatment may improve or alleviate POIS symptoms. For example, would you label everybody with "brain fog" as suffering from POIS? I doubt it as it's not yet an approved diagnosis but that's how strattera is being prescribed to kids (mostly young adults) suffering from concentration problems. I'm confident that being prescribed Provigil would improve your focus and concentration issues but that doesn't mean it's a "cure" or that the prescription of it implies any nuanced knowledge of the condition that's causing our neurotransmitter problems. Therefore, I don't think it's fair for you to suggest that people who are experiencing severe negative symptoms post orgasm are simply deluding themselves when the alternative you're suggesting is a diagnosis that basically says "your brain isn't working right".

[Defsync]

/bow
i stand on the cusp of a societal change, but somehow i remain possible

anyways, 1) what is the name of the show and episode from the Learning Channel about POIS. 2) i have a new theory. after orgasm, our serotonin levels drop dangerously low. and not just in the brain. serotonin affects MANY different biochem functions within the body, as is located ALL throughout the body, like near nerve endings in muscle, where a lack of it can cause serious issues.

I challenge, if anyone has not done so already, to orgasm multiple times. Then have their serotonin levels checked. This is done by some online labs, for a few hundred, and also by hospitals but usually to check for specific ailments.

I am betting that our serotonin levels drop, not just or solely in the brain, but also in other areas of the body. Zoloft annihilates the chemical "depression" caused by low serotonin levels, but does not help against memory/cognitive loss. So maybe not a complete answer, but helpful for people like me who are constantly shrouded in sadness (not like i normally care, its just very distracting) that get severe anxiety after an O and have to deal with people.

Low serotonin elsewhere can mean muscle stiffness/numbness. And also flu like symptoms =)

Food for thought. And I am hungry.

[Defsync]

Cornelius

These statements by you below and your ready acceptance of "diagnosis" by "doctors" who never actually tested your neurochemcial levels by Gas chromatography and mass spectrometry, imho, discredit pretty much your entire thesis on a research level. You have a good charisma, but I dont think your science is too sound. Also the "compendium" for POIS is this forum. Your statement

"regular, intense exercise, these sufferers also"

quotes these sites:
sites.google.com/site/poiswebsite/test.../exercise-and-enhanced-diet
poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=111.60
poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=226.0

None of which would classify as a compendium. Naked Scientists is THE compendium. One thing on this forum is you have to be careful how you word things. Our research carries a lot of weight if its scientifically sound. If you are truly POIS free, that is is awesome.



---------------------------------------------------------------
My experience has caused me to question the idea of POIS as a condition - and to view it more as a set of negative symptoms which predictably and consistently get much worse following sexual activity.
(a set of negative symptoms qualifies as a medical condition)

I am completely POIS-free
(but then you explain that you are actually not "completely" free. if you have to include an asterisk next to that statement, i wouldnt bother saying it)

[badgerstripe]

3) I've also noticed that sometimes if I feel particularly 'given to' in the sexual process i get NO negative symptoms - I can't explain this one!

hi badger, can you please explain what you mean by #3?  I'm not sure what you mean by "given to".  Thanks

Hi GoingCrazy

Without going into lots of detail(!) some interchanges with people, sexual or otherwise, can leave me feeling drained, other times they can leave me feeling quite energised. One way of saying this is that its not good to be doing all the work!

The connection with histamine in all this is fascinating i think as i get quite bad tree pollen allergy in the spring and i believe i have had some relief with taking niacin and that hot prickly feeling all over with the pollen allergy has reduced. These hayfeverish symptoms with tree pollen allergy are very similar to POIS symptoms for me except that i dont get sneezing, itchy eyes, stuffed sinus with POIS.

[GoingCrazy]

I'm taking the Sloniacin, something I found at Walmart, its composed of 500mg niacin and is formulated to reduce flushing.  It's definitely a remedy to help relax the brain and improve symptoms.  But unfortunately for me it only works for a limited amount of time.  Like I can get POIS, than take niacin, feel better, the niacin wears off, than I feel POIS again.

Right now I have crazy POIS, I O'd 6 times yesterday...

Hmm, having 6 O's in one day might wear anybody out Interestingly, since the O, I've only had 1 flush despite doubling my dose. Whereas in my state of O-lessness (over 3 weeks) I was flushing every day after 150mg.

Yeah, that's just how I am I "O", not really on purpose but when I do, I say "the heck with it", than just do it over again.  It's just too frustrating to keep this all bottled up.

3) I've also noticed that sometimes if I feel particularly 'given to' in the sexual process i get NO negative symptoms - I can't explain this one!

hi badger, can you please explain what you mean by #3?  I'm not sure what you mean by "given to".  Thanks

Hi GoingCrazy

Without going into lots of detail(!) some interchanges with people, sexual or otherwise, can leave me feeling drained, other times they can leave me feeling quite energised. One way of saying this is that its not good to be doing all the work!

The connection with histamine in all this is fascinating i think as i get quite bad tree pollen allergy in the spring and i believe i have had some relief with taking niacin and that hot prickly feeling all over with the pollen allergy has reduced. These hayfeverish symptoms with tree pollen allergy are very similar to POIS symptoms for me except that i dont get sneezing, itchy eyes, stuffed sinus with POIS.

thanks for clarifying.





BTW, I had a bad experience taking niacin at night, it seems to prevent me from sleeping.  Anybody else experience this?  I've had this experience before while taking vitamin B complex, it seems to excite me rather than relax me.

[GoingCrazy]

Regarding sleep... I can say I only have a good nights sleep (what I refer to a good nights sleep is sleep that I used to have before POIS, and actually refreshing, good feeling, tired, awesome sleep) about maybe 3 times a year.  Every single night I toss and turn and never really feel "tired".  I do fall asleep, but while asleep I do not really feel relaxed, I have dreams, but these dreams are draped by a feeling of hyper uneasiness.  Is anybody else like this?  I wish I could have a good nights sleep every single night.  Every so ofter one of these nights happen I am a completely different person the next day, and I actually feel like accomplishing something, it's like the whole world is turned rightside up, when I get one of these nights.  Can anybody else relate?

Also I find that waking up early is best for happiness and actually feeling tired at night.  I try to wake up at most by 9:30 am even on weekends.

[demografx]

My experience is that _anything_ that requires a) significant working memory such as mental calculations or mathematical operations b) recollection of a fact or concept is impaired.

Yeah, I'd agree with that.  Quick story:  I live in SF now and moved here from Dallas.  So last Wednesday a manager of mine asked me what my plans are for thanksgiving.  I told him that besides the normal festivities, I was looking fwd to watching the Cowboys game as I don't get many of their games in SF.  So I walk into work this morning, and he asks me how the Cowboy game was - a game in which I watched all 3 hours - and I said good.  Then he asked me who won.  I couldn't remember!  I had to say I couldn't remember, and then it took me sitting at my desk thinking about it for 30 seconds to remember.  I mean, that's even a low for me, but it's not the first time.  Every once in a while I'll watch half a game and the next day not be able to even quickly recall both teams I watched play.  There's no way that's normal, unless you're a heavy drug user perhaps.  It's just a tough way to live your life.

The shining light here is that loss of working memory isn't permanent. At least for me. When POIS is "over", I assume that your working memory is ok.

[demografx]

What is the name of the show and episode from the Learning Channel about POIS?

The Learning Channel's (TLC) feature TV presentation on POIS, featuring our member here at this forum, "Animus". It was aired on May 22, 2011. Here is a link to the YouTube file for the POIS  TV documentary, "Desperate Measures":

[demografx]

B_Jim, excellent idea. I PM'd "Poischannel" about this, thank you!

[kurtosis]

My experience is that _anything_ that requires a) significant working memory such as mental calculations or mathematical operations b) recollection of a fact or concept is impaired.

Yeah, I'd agree with that.  Quick story:  I live in SF now and moved here from Dallas.  So last Wednesday a manager of mine asked me what my plans are for thanksgiving.  I told him that besides the normal festivities, I was looking fwd to watching the Cowboys game as I don't get many of their games in SF.  So I walk into work this morning, and he asks me how the Cowboy game was - a game in which I watched all 3 hours - and I said good.  Then he asked me who won.  I couldn't remember!  I had to say I couldn't remember, and then it took me sitting at my desk thinking about it for 30 seconds to remember.  I mean, that's even a low for me, but it's not the first time.  Every once in a while I'll watch half a game and the next day not be able to even quickly recall both teams I watched play.  There's no way that's normal, unless you're a heavy drug user perhaps.  It's just a tough way to live your life.

The shining light here is that loss of working memory isn't permanent. At least for me. When POIS is "over", I assume that your working memory is ok.

Good question and the answer isn't straightforward. My working memory improves as I work through a state of O-lessness. But this can take weeks and then accidents happen. I also suspect that the mental impairment and fatigue resulting from the O makes me anxious and depressed. This, in turn, makes the problem worse.
What's going on, I don't know but large amounts of protein & b vitamins lessen the symptoms.

[badgerstripe]

An interesting thing:

For those who are having cognitive symptoms, anyone here feel like there's high pressure inside the head or a disconnect between two sides of the brain, or a feeling like theres an obstruction of blood flow?

It seems for me it almost feels as if POIS causes cerebral vasoconstriction. Every time during the process of recovery, I would feel as if I'm having increased blood flow to the brain.

It's interesting because during POIS when I try rotating my eyes if feels as if theres some sort of resistance behind the eyes in the brain area. From personal experience only, it seems that the mental symptoms and the increased pressure/weird feeling inside the head are completely linked.

Looking to thoughts/experiences/feedback

I definitely have that feeling, its the worst part for me. I rarely have caffeine but whenever i do I get the energy buzz that i assume evryone gets. Afterwards however I get that identical feeling i get with POIS that you describe. The feeling wears off after 12 hours. A migraine can be part of it also. I believe that the caffeine withdrawal and migraine is about reduced blood flow to the brain.

Regarding reduced blood oxygen flow, has any link been found between Polycythaemia rubra vera and POIS? My mother had the condition (PRV that is, not POIS!) Too many platelets are produced resulting in sluggishness and other symptoms. PRV is much more common in men than in women. I have no idea if I have it but its not been picked up on recent routine blood tests.

http://www.medic8.com/blood-disorders/polycythaemia-vera.htm

[demografx]

Thanks, very quick !  []


http://www.contentdeity.com/video/517157040/Orgasm-Flu-in-Men.html

You can add this one.

I think the Pois channel is another fantastic tool !
We have Girlwind video which is a very good introduction to Pois (>13 000 views!).
Two or three TV health clips.
And the documentary on Frank's Pois.

Thanks again, B_Jim!

I'm sending this to "POISchannel" and I am sure he will include this as he has included all of your other recommendations.

[John21 (OP)]

Update:
I'm having interesting results from experimenting with herbal diuretics. I switched from diuretic foods to supplements as it is easier. It is having a profound effect on my sleep. I have had severe insomnia for 10-15 years (I forget when it started). On the diuretics I still wake at night but I am able to get back to sleep and seem to sleep very deeply. It actually feels Iike I'm getting TOO much sleep. This is quite a development for me, I'm thrilled. Herbal diuretics seem fairly safe as long as I don't go way above the recommended doses, and keep my potassium levels up. Presently I have two types: dandelion tincture, and a herbal diuretic blend with Uva Ursi and Buchu leaf. For anyone who is skeptical that something as common as dandelion could have such a profound effect I can assure you that it actually works. The only side effects have been facial twitching and a little dizziness.  So, what is going on and could this have to do with POIS? I don't have a clue, anyone know how this might make sense? My original reason to try it was the notion that increased intercranial pressure might be causing my pulatie tinnitus.  I suppose that is still my best guess, that "subclinical" increased cerebrospinal fluid pressure is being relieved somewhat by the diuretics. This type of problem can also cause double vision, which I also have.

[badgerstripe]

Has anyone on the forum done comparison tests between regular niacin and nicotinamide, to see if the latter has any effect on POIS?

Or also compare Niacin with L-Histidine.

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Histamine
Sexual response
Research has shown that histamine is released as part of the human orgasm from mast cells in the genitals. If this response is lacking this may be a sign of histapenia (histamine deficiency). In such cases, a doctor may prescribe diet supplements with folic acid and niacin (which used in conjunction can increase blood histamine levels and histamine release), or L-histidine.


if L-histidine works too (prior, like niacin) then it could point towards low histamine at orgasm as a feature of POIS, if you get my drift.

Do users of this forum believe low or high histamine is a cause of POIS? I'm confused. I have always thought high histamine was a problem in allergic reactions.

[Defsync]

What is the name of the show and episode from the Learning Channel about POIS?

The Learning Channel's (TLC) feature TV presentation on POIS, featuring our member here at this forum, "Animus". It was aired on May 22, 2011. Here is a link to the YouTube file for the POIS  TV documentary, "Desperate Measures":

first :31 seconds in and he tells me he once had a normal sex life. Am I the only one that was born this way and from the first orgasm to my last its assaulted my brain eliminating the majority of my intelligence?

Oh FYI if you havent watched "Game of Thrones" I oh so highly recommend it. Think Rated-R Lord of the Rings.... epic

[victor.kons]

Hi Defsync,

first :31 seconds in and he tells me he once had a normal sex life. Am I the only one that was born this way and from the first orgasm to my last its assaulted my brain eliminating the majority of my intelligence?

No, you are not the only one. I had POIS since my first O too.

Victor