[daveman]

There's been a lot of people going over to the chat, but we're all missing each other.

Maybe announce here or even arrange a time on the chat itself. If you leave a message on chat, the last 10 stay on the board. So you could leave a message, "back in X time".

Chat's help a lot to know the other better.

[jferr]

Daveman and Kurtosis, thank you for your responses.

I have never been able to have more than one orgasm every few weeks, but with this fairly new treatment regimen I have been on I have been able to have about one each week. I recently took too much niacin accidentally and nearly passed out, this happened one other time also by accident and the results that time were positive. This time, however, I feel run down, fatigued, and mentally drained with no alertness, and my neurological facial expression problems seem to be coming back.. Even with the new regimen of chlorella, spirulina, vitamin c and fish oil afterwards. I even go to the gym 5 days a week and take zma before bed.

I don't think my body is building a tolerance to the medication because I have been cycling a bit. I have even held off on the medication after 3 or 4 days post orgasm just so the effect will be greater for my next orgasm. The only things that have come up in my bloodwork are an inconsistent Growth hormone and a fairly low FSH. I'm not sure why my body seems to have stopped responding to my treatment regimen and I feel as though I'm falling back into the depths. I will be looking to try Imitrex since it has proven to help others but I really don't know what else to do. I will be donating to help our research and such but my problem is consistent and very debilitating. If anyone has any ideas I will undoubtedly listen.

We won'e give up,

Jon.

[daveman]

Daveman and Kurtosis, thank you for your responses.

I have never been able to have more than one orgasm every few weeks, but with this fairly new treatment regimen I have been on I have been able to have about one each week. I recently took too much niacin accidentally and nearly passed out, this happened one other time also by accident and the results that time were positive. This time, however, I feel run down, fatigued, and mentally drained with no alertness, and my neurological facial expression problems seem to be coming back.. Even with the new regimen of chlorella, spirulina, vitamin c and fish oil afterwards. I even go to the gym 5 days a week and take zma before bed.

I don't think my body is building a tolerance to the medication because I have been cycling a bit. I have even held off on the medication after 3 or 4 days post orgasm just so the effect will be greater for my next orgasm. The only things that have come up in my bloodwork are an inconsistent Growth hormone and a fairly low FSH. I'm not sure why my body seems to have stopped responding to my treatment regimen and I feel as though I'm falling back into the depths. I will be looking to try Imitrex since it has proven to help others but I really don't know what else to do. I will be donating to help our research and such but my problem is consistent and very debilitating. If anyone has any ideas I will undoubtedly listen.

We won'e give up,

Jon.

At least with niacin, our most long time niacin member, Victor, indicates that after 2 yrs. it is still faithful and consistent. It is tricky it seems too much or too little and it loses it's effectivity, and of course fasting before, at least 3 hrs, both food AND alcohol is very important.

Perhaps, if you are going to make any changes, change one thing only at a time and give it at least two sessions to see the change. I think the spirulina and chlorella could interact with niacin so too many changes at once won't let you see what's happening. Also don't take anything within several hours of the niacin on either side.

Sometimes the smallest of changes can make big differences.

[jferr]

Daveman, Thank you for the response.

I don't feel that the niacin has become ineffective, i have been using it consistently for months now, and it has helped the worst of sufferings Inused to experience. The real breakthrough came about a month ago when I added chlorella, spirulina, and vitamin C to my treatment regimen right after orgasm. This allowed me to return to the family business because I have been, once again, been able to mentally and physically function. It just seems to be helping to replenish less and less and this time hardly at all. I have tried cycling these products and things like that. I have not tried waiting hours until the orgasm because I'm worried about the first crucial hours of recovery.

[kurtosis]

Daveman, Thank you for the response.

I don't feel that the niacin has become ineffective, i have been using it consistently for months now, and it has helped the worst of sufferings Inused to experience. The real breakthrough came about a month ago when I added chlorella, spirulina, and vitamin C to my treatment regimen right after orgasm. This allowed me to return to the family business because I have been, once again, been able to mentally and physically function. It just seems to be helping to replenish less and less and this time hardly at all. I have tried cycling these products and things like that. I have not tried waiting hours until the orgasm because I'm worried about the first crucial hours of recovery.

Hi jferr,
Send me a PM letting me know how much of these you're taking and when. I've never been able to take too much niacin as I get a flush after about 100mg and wouldn't take much more than that. I've modified the regime to take a bit less C (as its natural anti-histamine effects were making me drowsy) and more spirulina+chlorella every day as I haven't experienced any ill effects with these. Also, I don't take ZMA every night.

[daveman]

Daveman, Thank you for the response.

I don't feel that the niacin has become ineffective, i have been using it consistently for months now, and it has helped the worst of sufferings Inused to experience. The real breakthrough came about a month ago when I added chlorella, spirulina, and vitamin C to my treatment regimen right after orgasm. This allowed me to return to the family business because I have been, once again, been able to mentally and physically function. It just seems to be helping to replenish less and less and this time hardly at all. I have tried cycling these products and things like that. I have not tried waiting hours until the orgasm because I'm worried about the first crucial hours of recovery.

Just a thought that's passed my mind, and who knows, maybe has some bearing here. I've wondered if perhaps once the first BIG relief comes (like with the niacin for me) you just can't believe it, it seems impossible, life has finally changed, but with a bit of time you start to notice smaller symptoms. I started to wonder if the effect was wearing off, but then I realized that I was just more sensitive to the littler stuff now.

Also. BN (Before nicain), I had harder sessions and I had easier sessions. And I think even with the niacin, this is true. Some times it lasts a day and sometimes it doesn't even appear. Maybe for you it's just fluctuating and it's in a low at this minute and will improve again in a bit.

[daveman]

Daveman, Thank you for the response.

I don't feel that the niacin has become ineffective, i have been using it consistently for months now, and it has helped the worst of sufferings Inused to experience. The real breakthrough came about a month ago when I added chlorella, spirulina, and vitamin C to my treatment regimen right after orgasm. This allowed me to return to the family business because I have been, once again, been able to mentally and physically function. It just seems to be helping to replenish less and less and this time hardly at all. I have tried cycling these products and things like that. I have not tried waiting hours until the orgasm because I'm worried about the first crucial hours of recovery.

Hi jferr,
Send me a PM letting me know how much of these you're taking and when. I've never been able to take too much niacin as I get a flush after about 100mg and wouldn't take much more than that. I've modified the regime to take a bit less C (as its natural anti-histamine effects were making me drowsy) and more spirulina+chlorella every day as I haven't experienced any ill effects with these. Also, I don't take ZMA every night.

Or post here, it could be useful to some others of us.
Thanks

[kurtosis]

Daveman, Thank you for the response.

I don't feel that the niacin has become ineffective, i have been using it consistently for months now, and it has helped the worst of sufferings Inused to experience. The real breakthrough came about a month ago when I added chlorella, spirulina, and vitamin C to my treatment regimen right after orgasm. This allowed me to return to the family business because I have been, once again, been able to mentally and physically function. It just seems to be helping to replenish less and less and this time hardly at all. I have tried cycling these products and things like that. I have not tried waiting hours until the orgasm because I'm worried about the first crucial hours of recovery.

Hi jferr,
Send me a PM letting me know how much of these you're taking and when. I've never been able to take too much niacin as I get a flush after about 100mg and wouldn't take much more than that. I've modified the regime to take a bit less C (as its natural anti-histamine effects were making me drowsy) and more spirulina+chlorella every day as I haven't experienced any ill effects with these. Also, I don't take ZMA every night.

Or post here, it could be useful to some others of us.
Thanks

I don't mind either way
I think Daveman is right about getting over POIS. For me, I realised that POIS had prevented me from making a lot of progress and in the effort to make up for lost time I got quite stressed. I also realised that I was anxious about lots of activities requiring intense concentration and had developed terrible work habits as a result.
This is the POIS fallout and even if you were POIS free in the morning I think you'd suffer from symptoms associated with being in a  very stressful situation for many years, while struggling to cope.

[bastianb]

I don't mind either way
I think Daveman is right about getting over POIS. For me, I realised that POIS had prevented me from making a lot of progress and in the effort to make up for lost time I got quite stressed. I also realised that I was anxious about lots of activities requiring intense concentration and had developed terrible work habits as a result.
This is the POIS fallout and even if you were POIS free in the morning I think you'd suffer from symptoms associated with being in a  very stressful situation for many years, while struggling to cope.

Couldn't have put it any better! I also developed terrible 'work' habits indeed. Like, you're fed up from doing the right thing cause it's harder to do and you can't go back to the right way of doing things even when the episode is over.

By the way I've been lurking in and out the forums lately, I just realised I haven't logged in for over 5 months!
Everytime life gets hard I just quickly navigate to this topic without logging in (be it on my mobile or laptop) to see if a cure is found yet or not... fact

[jferr]

Thanks again for the responses guys, Much appreciated.

The niacin has been consistent, I don't question that. I usually take about 1,000 mg Chlorella, 1,000 mg spirulina, 1,000 mg vitamin c, and 2 fish oil capsules immediately after orgasm. I sometimes wash these down with a small protein shake. From there, I take a multivitamin and fish oil daily. The chlorella/spirulina is about every other day and the same with vitamin c. I have experimented with more of each but didn't notice much of a difference.

Daveman, I understand what you're saying about getting used to feeling a bit better and noticing the little symptoms. With me, I have been unable to do the work I was doing a few weeks back and feel a lot worse. It is possible that I am experiencing a few bad ones in a row since every time is different, but the past few weeks have been unusually debilitating, and especially this past week. I have been doing everything I can in that I don't orgasm more than once a week and in that once a week, only every other week can be an ejaculation. Full ejaculation takes so much out of me that I usually have to stay away from it when I orgasm. Sometimes, even though I can't take niacin with it, I feel that late night emissions help if I take the proper supplementation afterwards because it takes a far less toll on my body.

My situation is constant, most symptoms are mental, and it's definitely hard. But I have had some success with these things thanks to Kurtosis' recommendation. I just hope that I continue to be able to function guys.

Thanks for your continued help. This is why I don't mind donating, because there is a great community of people working together.

[kurtosis]

Thanks again for the responses guys, Much appreciated.

The niacin has been consistent, I don't question that. I usually take about 1,000 mg Chlorella, 1,000 mg spirulina, 1,000 mg vitamin c, and 2 fish oil capsules immediately after orgasm. I sometimes wash these down with a small protein shake. From there, I take a multivitamin and fish oil daily. The chlorella/spirulina is about every other day and the same with vitamin c. I have experimented with more of each but didn't notice much of a difference.

Daveman, I understand what you're saying about getting used to feeling a bit better and noticing the little symptoms. With me, I have been unable to do the work I was doing a few weeks back and feel a lot worse. It is possible that I am experiencing a few bad ones in a row since every time is different, but the past few weeks have been unusually debilitating, and especially this past week. I have been doing everything I can in that I don't orgasm more than once a week and in that once a week, only every other week can be an ejaculation. Full ejaculation takes so much out of me that I usually have to stay away from it when I orgasm. Sometimes, even though I can't take niacin with it, I feel that late night emissions help if I take the proper supplementation afterwards because it takes a far less toll on my body.

My situation is constant, most symptoms are mental, and it's definitely hard. But I have had some success with these things thanks to Kurtosis' recommendation. I just hope that I continue to be able to function guys.

Thanks for your continued help. This is why I don't mind donating, because there is a great community of people working together.

I hope I can continue to help.
Your dosages make sense to me based on my experience.

I'd worry slightly about combining vit c and a whey based protein shake as that seems very harsh on your stomach. I take the chlorella+spirulina first and then the vit c about 20 minutes later.

The other changes I've made is that I've mostly replaced the fish oil with krill oil (Neptune Krill Oil by Now) and the multi-vit + separate chlorella is replaced by a breakfast milkshake/smoothie with the following ingredients (some based on P Bickforrd's research) - coconut oil, blueberries, bananas, pineapple, vanilla bifidus yoghurt, honey, a scoop of spirulina and a scoop of chlorella (about 500mg each) . It's a funny looking concoction but even the girlfriend thinks it tastes great. It was inspired by a few articles I read (such as http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16176814) and the knowledge that MCT from coconut oil, the anti-oxidants in blueberries and the multiple ingredients of chlorella + spirulina including tyrosine, GLA & CGF were foods that, whenever I took them, improved my mood and concentration. So I thought, why not take them all at once? It's not coincidence that all these foods are natural ways to boost your dopamine levels.

Well it gives me a fast mood lift and improves my sleep. I've drank it twice a day now for the past 10 days. Not long now but I'm happy the results so far and haven't missed the multi-vit. A cheaper alternative might be a multi-vit with less b6 than the Quest platinum & tyrosine powder to help regulate the amount but there's something, to me anyway, that feels intrinsically better about trying to get the nutrients from food & I include algae in that category. Actually seaweed was popular as a food source in Ireland & Scotland for many years. It also stops me skipping breakfast which was something I was prone to doing.

But as I've gotten better and better since xmas (mostly by assuming this was a catecholamine cycle problem and trying to treat that myself) I've started to see just bad things had gotten in my working life and some of my relationships due to POIS. And it's tough not to dwell on all that wasted time.

[jferr]

Kurtosis, That's some great advice.

I will deifnitely look into making that drink as well as it sounds like you're benefiting from it. And catecholamine consistency is something that i could deifnitely use. Tell me.. Is it difficult to make? I'm sure other in this forum are reading this as well because it seems you are very knowledgable. how much of each item do you take? Do you blend it?

[kurtosis]

Kurtosis, That's some great advice.

I will deifnitely look into making that drink as well as it sounds like you're benefiting from it. And catecholamine consistency is something that i could deifnitely use. Tell me.. Is it difficult to make? I'm sure other in this forum are reading this as well because it seems you are very knowledgable. how much of each item do you take? Do you blend it?

Thanks Jferr. Well I had an O yesterday night and feel pretty good. What's odd about this is that I haven't had any niacin in a week. So what I took to recover was 2 tablets of sprirulina and 2 capsules of krill oil.
See http://www.nowfoods.com/Supplements/Products-by-Category/Nutritional-Oils/Fish-Omega-3-Krill-Oils/061193.htm for EPA/DHA/Astaxanthin estimates

I then took the ZMA when I wanted to go asleep. I felt clear enough 10 minutes after taking this to read 10 pages of a technical book which I remember this morning and decided to read another 30 pages. So when you want to read 40 pages of statistics then it's not the average POIS day

Then the ZMA ended up making me tired and I fell asleep. I always get this effect with it.  Now ZMA is just zinc, magnesium and b6 so, as I've said before, I'm not advocating this for sports use or making any claims about free testosterone. I just feel it helps replenish some of what's lost after an O and that there's a certain replaceability of b6 and b3 as was pointed out during the famous post about the child with tourettes.
http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/neur-sci/1996-February/022416.html

This clarity the following morning is NOT my normal POIS experience. If I had to boil it down I believe that the key nutrients & minerals that have made a big difference are:
- astaxanthin
- Omega3s in phospolipoid form in krill oil.
- zinc
- b6
- tyrosine
- probiotics

 but there's something extra when they all get combined together. I'd be really interested to learn what anybody else's experience is of tyrosine. Mine is that it improves cognitive performance quite quickly (increases dopamine & other catecholamines) but doesn't cure the pain/allergy symptoms of POIS. So you don't feel as POIS-dumb but still feel out of sorts. The allergy symptoms are virtually gone now and they started to improve dramatically when I took krill oil (astaxanthin & omega3s) twice a day.

The smoothie is easy to make. I have a blender with a smoothie setting. I very rarely used it until I had a spirulina smoothie on a business trip and felt brighter for the rest of the day. I make about 2 tall glasses worth of it and drink 4 glasses a day. My POIS-related (or POIS causing, who knows?) digestive problems have improved also.

So the ingredients are:
- a desert spoon of honey for taste. (use less if you want)
- 1.5 desert spoons of coconut oil.
- a banana
- 500 ml of water (it's from our own well, not sure I'd put city tap water into this and expect it to taste OK / be healthy
- 500 ml of pineapple juice
- ~20 blueberries
- ~ 10 pineapple chunks (fresh stuff as oppose to canned)
- a desert spoon of vanilla bifidus yoghurt (or 2 if you like).
- 500mg of spirulina & 500mg of chlorella.
Blend it all up and drink quickly. Don't let it settle or think it can be refrigerated. Within about 1 hour it goes from a greenish froth with a pleasant taste to something that looks very unappetising.

As I've said I believe I could achieve a similar effect with vitamin supplements but I'd rather not. This way, I'm actually getting a meal of smoothies and 2 other meals a day so it's improved my diet.

[daveman]

So are you going to try more time without niacin in the diet?

The worst problem with niacin is it's rigidity respect to fasting before and taking just enough to flush.

I thought about trying this but have no need. But there are many who do, so hopefully it will work for them.

I would really like to see more of you try it and report back, especially those of you who haven't found a good solution yet.

I will see how to include it in a survey. We might be able to see then if there are differences in effectivity 1) between different POIS groups and 2) as compared to other things like niacin or other treatments.

Another point, There are things like fresh blueberries and pineapple that have their seasons, and in some parts aren't always available. Have you found a solution for that?

BTW what is vanilla bifidus yogurt? I'm not sure where I could get half the things in the recipe. I suppose you'd have to look around, and once you could find the sources you'd be OK.

[kurtosis]

Actually I use about 1/2 a tablespoon each of Chlorella and Spirulina in my smoothies. That's about a table spoon of each a day. This is about the same amount that I used to dissolve in water.

[kurtosis]

So are you going to try more time without niacin in the diet?

The worst problem with niacin is it's rigidity respect to fasting before and taking just enough to flush.

I thought about trying this but have no need. But there are many who do, so hopefully it will work for them.

I would really like to see more of you try it and report back, especially those of you who haven't found a good solution yet.

I will see how to include it in a survey. We might be able to see then if there are differences in effectivity 1) between different POIS groups and 2) as compared to other things like niacin or other treatments.

Another point, There are things like fresh blueberries and pineapple that have their seasons, and in some parts aren't always available. Have you found a solution for that?

BTW what is vanilla bifidus yogurt? I'm not sure where I could get half the things in the recipe. I suppose you'd have to look around, and once you could find the sources you'd be OK.

Hi,
I happened to be online at the same time Daveman.
Yes, I'm going to see if I can go for longer without niacin but I still have a bottle of niacin tables here, just in case
It works best with the flush but I must admit, the flush worries me as sometimes the intensity feels great (probably as I've fasted longer) and the red complexion takes longer to clear. I've never come close to passing out from it as JFerr reports.

Bifidis yoghurt is really popular in the UK and much of continental Europe. A popular brand is activia but there are others http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activia
They do a vanilla flavour and I use that but I've also seen other brands that have their own cultures of Bifidobacterium. You can even get similar probiotic capsules in health food shops.
You can also source spirulina and chlorella in health food shops or online. I always use Synergy brand. http://www.synergynatural.com/
Their "premium" has a stronger taste than "organic" and allegedly has a higher concentration of nutrients, including tyrosine.

I'm afraid I don't have a solution to "freshness" as I'm buying imported fruit & I must admit that it doesn't taste quite as good as the fresh stuff I've eaten in warmer climates. However, I don't have any problem in getting fruit all year around from the local supermarkets.

[Pharaoh]

On yahoo today there was an article about "7 Health Symptoms You Should Never Ignore."  Included was:

"4. Headaches: Although we're all familiar with the occasional headache, it can sometimes also indicate a serious problem like a brain tumor or meningitis, says Dr. Gruver. If your headache is accompanied by a fever, stiff neck, or vomiting or lasts an unusually long time (more than a few days), it should be investigated, she says.
Other symptoms that require medical attention: A severe headache that comes on suddenly; a headache accompanied by slurred speech, vision problems, trouble moving your arms and legs, loss of balance, confusion, or memory loss; a headache that gets worse over a 24-hour period; a headache that occurs with a head injury."

So, although I have found significant relief with Imitrex, I was forced to suspend my use for a couple of weeks.  Reason being that it becomes less effective if taken frequently, i.e. daily or even every few days.  However, following a week or two week break its effectiveness will return.  Moreover, my insurance limits the amount covered to 27 pills per 62 days.  My Dr. has provided a prior-authorization to increase the quantity.  Also, she has recommended I see a neurologist, and in particular a headache specialist.  So, I have an appointment at the Johns Hopkins Headache Center in a few months.  I've been told it's among the best.  I'll be sure to provide an update on my treatment and any progress made.  Best of luck to all of you and we will find a cure soon! 

[jferr]

Kurtosis, That's some great advice.

I will deifnitely look into making that drink as well as it sounds like you're benefiting from it. And catecholamine consistency is something that i could deifnitely use. Tell me.. Is it difficult to make? I'm sure other in this forum are reading this as well because it seems you are very knowledgable. how much of each item do you take? Do you blend it?

Thanks Jferr. Well I had an O yesterday night and feel pretty good. What's odd about this is that I haven't had any niacin in a week. So what I took to recover was 2 tablets of sprirulina and 2 capsules of krill oil.
See http://www.nowfoods.com/Supplements/Products-by-Category/Nutritional-Oils/Fish-Omega-3-Krill-Oils/061193.htm for EPA/DHA/Astaxanthin estimates

I then took the ZMA when I wanted to go asleep. I felt clear enough 10 minutes after taking this to read 10 pages of a technical book which I remember this morning and decided to read another 30 pages. So when you want to read 40 pages of statistics then it's not the average POIS day

Then the ZMA ended up making me tired and I fell asleep. I always get this effect with it.  Now ZMA is just zinc, magnesium and b6 so, as I've said before, I'm not advocating this for sports use or making any claims about free testosterone. I just feel it helps replenish some of what's lost after an O and that there's a certain replaceability of b6 and b3 as was pointed out during the famous post about the child with tourettes.
http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/neur-sci/1996-February/022416.html

This clarity the following morning is NOT my normal POIS experience. If I had to boil it down I believe that the key nutrients & minerals that have made a big difference are:
- astaxanthin
- Omega3s in phospolipoid form in krill oil.
- zinc
- b6
- tyrosine
- probiotics

 but there's something extra when they all get combined together. I'd be really interested to learn what anybody else's experience is of tyrosine. Mine is that it improves cognitive performance quite quickly (increases dopamine & other catecholamines) but doesn't cure the pain/allergy symptoms of POIS. So you don't feel as POIS-dumb but still feel out of sorts. The allergy symptoms are virtually gone now and they started to improve dramatically when I took krill oil (astaxanthin & omega3s) twice a day.

The smoothie is easy to make. I have a blender with a smoothie setting. I very rarely used it until I had a spirulina smoothie on a business trip and felt brighter for the rest of the day. I make about 2 tall glasses worth of it and drink 4 glasses a day. My POIS-related (or POIS causing, who knows?) digestive problems have improved also.

So the ingredients are:
- a desert spoon of honey for taste. (use less if you want)
- 1.5 desert spoons of coconut oil.
- a banana
- 500 ml of water (it's from our own well, not sure I'd put city tap water into this and expect it to taste OK / be healthy
- 500 ml of pineapple juice
- ~20 blueberries
- ~ 10 pineapple chunks (fresh stuff as oppose to canned)
- a desert spoon of vanilla bifidus yoghurt (or 2 if you like).
- 500mg of spirulina & 500mg of chlorella.
Blend it all up and drink quickly. Don't let it settle or think it can be refrigerated. Within about 1 hour it goes from a greenish froth with a pleasant taste to something that looks very unappetising.

As I've said I believe I could achieve a similar effect with vitamin supplements but I'd rather not. This way, I'm actually getting a meal of smoothies and 2 other meals a day so it's improved my diet.

Kurtosis, Very interesting.

It sounds like you really boiled down the list of things you take to some specifics. When after or before O do you take these supplements? And how much of these do you take? And as for the shake, Do you take that after orgasm as well and every day after that? And how much of this as well?

Thanks again.

Jon.

[observercenter]

So, although I have found significant relief with Imitrex, I was forced to suspend my use for a couple of weeks.  Reason being that it becomes less effective if taken frequently, i.e. daily or even every few days.  However, following a week or two week break its effectiveness will return.  Moreover, my insurance limits the amount covered to 27 pills per 62 days.  My Dr. has provided a prior-authorization to increase the quantity.  Also, she has recommended I see a neurologist, and in particular a headache specialist.  So, I have an appointment at the Johns Hopkins Headache Center in a few months.  I've been told it's among the best.  I'll be sure to provide an update on my treatment and any progress made.  Best of luck to all of you and we will find a cure soon! 

Exactly the same is happening with the niacin -becomes less effective if taken frequently - That is due you need to raise the threshold to get the flush if you take it every day. After few days, this effect passes, and you get the flush at the same threshold.

[kurtosis]

Kurtosis, That's some great advice.

I will deifnitely look into making that drink as well as it sounds like you're benefiting from it. And catecholamine consistency is something that i could deifnitely use. Tell me.. Is it difficult to make? I'm sure other in this forum are reading this as well because it seems you are very knowledgable. how much of each item do you take? Do you blend it?

Thanks Jferr. Well I had an O yesterday night and feel pretty good. What's odd about this is that I haven't had any niacin in a week. So what I took to recover was 2 tablets of sprirulina and 2 capsules of krill oil.
See http://www.nowfoods.com/Supplements/Products-by-Category/Nutritional-Oils/Fish-Omega-3-Krill-Oils/061193.htm for EPA/DHA/Astaxanthin estimates

I then took the ZMA when I wanted to go asleep. I felt clear enough 10 minutes after taking this to read 10 pages of a technical book which I remember this morning and decided to read another 30 pages. So when you want to read 40 pages of statistics then it's not the average POIS day

Then the ZMA ended up making me tired and I fell asleep. I always get this effect with it.  Now ZMA is just zinc, magnesium and b6 so, as I've said before, I'm not advocating this for sports use or making any claims about free testosterone. I just feel it helps replenish some of what's lost after an O and that there's a certain replaceability of b6 and b3 as was pointed out during the famous post about the child with tourettes.
http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/neur-sci/1996-February/022416.html

This clarity the following morning is NOT my normal POIS experience. If I had to boil it down I believe that the key nutrients & minerals that have made a big difference are:
- astaxanthin
- Omega3s in phospolipoid form in krill oil.
- zinc
- b6
- tyrosine
- probiotics

 but there's something extra when they all get combined together. I'd be really interested to learn what anybody else's experience is of tyrosine. Mine is that it improves cognitive performance quite quickly (increases dopamine & other catecholamines) but doesn't cure the pain/allergy symptoms of POIS. So you don't feel as POIS-dumb but still feel out of sorts. The allergy symptoms are virtually gone now and they started to improve dramatically when I took krill oil (astaxanthin & omega3s) twice a day.

The smoothie is easy to make. I have a blender with a smoothie setting. I very rarely used it until I had a spirulina smoothie on a business trip and felt brighter for the rest of the day. I make about 2 tall glasses worth of it and drink 4 glasses a day. My POIS-related (or POIS causing, who knows?) digestive problems have improved also.

So the ingredients are:
- a desert spoon of honey for taste. (use less if you want)
- 1.5 desert spoons of coconut oil.
- a banana
- 500 ml of water (it's from our own well, not sure I'd put city tap water into this and expect it to taste OK / be healthy
- 500 ml of pineapple juice
- ~20 blueberries
- ~ 10 pineapple chunks (fresh stuff as oppose to canned)
- a desert spoon of vanilla bifidus yoghurt (or 2 if you like).
- 500mg of spirulina & 500mg of chlorella.
Blend it all up and drink quickly. Don't let it settle or think it can be refrigerated. Within about 1 hour it goes from a greenish froth with a pleasant taste to something that looks very unappetising.

As I've said I believe I could achieve a similar effect with vitamin supplements but I'd rather not. This way, I'm actually getting a meal of smoothies and 2 other meals a day so it's improved my diet.

Kurtosis, Very interesting.

It sounds like you really boiled down the list of things you take to some specifics. When after or before O do you take these supplements? And how much of these do you take? And as for the shake, Do you take that after orgasm as well and every day after that? And how much of this as well?

Thanks again.

Jon.

I take the shake twice a day. As breakfast and when I get in from work, generally sometime between 7 & 8 pm. I don't take the shake after O. The only things I take after that are 2 spirulina capsules & 1 krill oil capsule within 10 minutes and the ZMA, before I plan on going to sleep. I try to have O's in the late evening anyway so this isn't an inconvenience

I'm going to be a bit more efficient with my ingredients and reduce my consumption of the smoothie to 3 glasses a day (currently 4, 2 in the morning & 2 in the evening). I think with the reduced amount I should still be well covered for tyrosine & b-vitamins.