[B_Daniel]

....... It seems I am cured. 

But in last several occassions, i cured for first one week by medicine and POIS used to bounce back.  But this time that does not happen and it is already 15 days, I am out of POIS.  Now, I am enjoying normal mental health in last 7 years.  For last 7 years, I was in continuos POIS except some break for a week.  I wanted to wait another 15 days and confirm that there is no POIS bounce back on me, then I will post the treatments taken by me, with scientific reason.  I will be back on March 1st with happy news. 

While you've been temporarily "cured" from 2-3 different things over the last 6 months, I will say that A.) You totally respect the 2 week rule, and B.) You always let us know as soon as one of your announced cures has stopped working.  And for that I'll always trust your recommendations.  I'm looking forward to your next update.  My fingers are crossed that your treatment is sustainable!

[urano75]

Urano, thanks for the Thyroid explanation.  As I've discussed with you offline, I seem to have thyroid readings similar to you, with RT3 levels above range.  Consequently my Free T3 : RT3 ratio is super low.  As you touched upon, the medical community disagrees about the role RT3 plays in our bodies and many doctors don't think that high levels indicate a problem.  That said, the fact that supplemental T3 helps you suggests otherwise.  I wish more POISers had their RT3 levels tested, as it would be helpful to know whether high RT3 is a trend among us.  I'm not quite ready to try supplemental T3 as that seems like a big step to me, but maybe one day.

Daniel, let me emphasize that I'm now trying to use T3 via CT3M to recover proper adrenal function, but before doing so I've spent 1.5 years trying many different kinds of adrenal support (adaptogenics, licorice root, isocort, cortex glandulars, phosphatidilserine, DHEA, pregnenolone...). T3 has been the last resort as it looked like I was somewhat compensating for, but not recovering missing adrenal function. This is also a controversial field, some say that using isocort and glandulars finally leads to partial adrenal suppression, others that it temporarily help supporting adrenals to fully recover. Using T3 when adrenal function is at its peak seems stimulating adrenals to produce more hormones themselves. However it's a young method, and it's unclear what happens when T3 is finally weaned off, and for how long one is supposed to use it.
Underactive thyroid issues are said to often come from dysfunctional adrenals, and also untreated hypothyroidism is a cause of adrenal dysfunction in the long term, that's why there often considered together.
Even in case of pure hypothyroidism (hashimoto's, iodine deficiency,...) T3 is not the first choice treatment, it's logical that one starts with T4, better NDT, and eventually turns to T3 or a combination of the above for resistant cases. Dosing T3 is a lot of work and could be not well tolerated by some individuals, especially if they have cortisol, iron, B12, blood sugar issues... so it generally requires these underlying issues are addressed before, or at least in parallel.
As you say yes, it would be interesting to see how many in this community have some degree of adrenals/thryoid dysfunction; even though I feel there are more factors in play, they can certainly contribute to chronic fatigue related issues. All is very complex and interrelated and individual.

[B_Daniel]

I'd never heard of the CT3M method before you mentioned it just now.  i did some reading one it.  I like how in addition to raising T3 it naturally increases cortisol production.  I'd venture to guess that many of us here have insufficient cortisol production.  I'm certainly in that camp, so perhaps if i ever go down the T3 pathway I'll be able to do the CT3M thing and be able to forgo the supplemental hydrocortisone.

[urano75]

I'd never heard of the CT3M method before you mentioned it just now.  i did some reading one it.  I like how in addition to raising T3 it naturally increases cortisol production.  I'd venture to guess that many of us here have insufficient cortisol production.  I'm certainly in that camp, so perhaps if i ever go down the T3 pathway I'll be able to do the CT3M thing and be able to forgo the supplemental hydrocortisone.

If you interested in that subject it might be worth reading Paul Robinson's book "Recovering with T3".
About "rT3: fiction or reality", I can bring my personal experience. The first 8-10 weeks I take T3 its effect is somehow attenuated even if I reach high doses. Then, at a certain point I feel it at once, see hyperthyroid signs and have to reduce the doses. It's happened to me twice during the dose tuning. The explanation I have for it is that, if enough T3 is used, TSH is constantly suppressed and eventually T4 production is stopped. With less T4 in circulation there is less conversion to rT3, and eventually T3 is more effective at cellular level. In fact it normally takes 8-12 weeks for T4 (and eventually rT3) to be cleared out if T3 dosage is high enough. If on the other hand you are underdosed the clear out might not happen (this happened to me as well, as confirmed by the labs).
It's one example of experiencing something rather than just believing (or not) in a model.
With that I don't want to say that rT3 is the only cause of thyroid resistance at cellular level, nor that solving this kind of hypothyroidism will completely address any form of chronic fatigue/pain. It's just a piece of the puzzle to be considered.

[chris 18]

Hi everyone,

I took zinc and vit B 6 tab as suggested by herman only for 3 days.  During that day, my blood pressure was gone to 160 and doctors told that it shows your zinc and Vit B6 are normal and there is no need to take supplements and he confirmed that it is not related to my POIS.

Later, I consulted, the another doctor, (new) explained all the symtoms and he told he knows how to cure this problem.  He give me scientific reason for the POIS He suggested me the tablet for one month.  I started taking it,  For first one week, I found slight relief, from second week onwards, POIS started diminishing and at the end of second week, my entire POIS cured.  Presently I am in end of one month and there is no POIS symtoms at all.  Yesterday I had three o's and today three. nothing happens.  It seems I am cured. 

But in last several occassions, i cured for first one week by medicine and POIS used to bounce back.  But this time that does not happen and it is already 15 days, I am out of POIS.  Now, I am enjoying normal mental health in last 7 years.  For last 7 years, I was in continuos POIS except some break for a week.  I wanted to wait another 15 days and confirm that there is no POIS bounce back on me, then I will post the treatments taken by me, with scientific reason.  I will be back on March 1st with happy news. 

Friends cure for POIS is very very simple basic thing, but all of us here we forget, finally form that doctor, i came to know about this as he had experience of some patients some patients facing POIS due to that proble.

Thats very good and delighting news Nathan..I hope you are right and that finally there is a solution in our problem..We 'll be waiting for your confirmation news Nathan and wish your correct.

[Prancer]

Hey guys (& happy st patrick's day kurtosis and everyone! )

Don't think the following is something we really haven't heard before, but I read this article and thought it was kind of interesting (http://themodernsavage.com/2009/02/04/effects-of-male-masturbation-on-attracting-women/), mainly not because of the actual article, but because of the comments section, in that there are so many people who try abstaining for a while (like 7 days or more) and end up feeling much more confident, sociable, and clear minded. What really amazes me is the huge amount of people that have tried this with super good results. Some examples of what they say are: "I would require 2-4 days to recover while being stuck in an apathetic rut", "I masturbated yesterday from lack of willpower. Today I’m completely depressed", "Without masturbating for nine months, physically I felt good. My mind felt sharp but I also became more emotionally solid". And those are the tip of a big iceberg of what ppl are saying. This is what a lot of us POISers experience too, except it seems that our post masturbation symptoms are a lot worse. There are a TON of comments there, so maybe POIS (or some form of it) really is much more common than we think.

Prancer

[B_Daniel]

I tend to agree with you Prancer... POIS might be something that lots of guys have - we just have a worse case of it.

[LAPOISSE2]

Hi everyone,

I took zinc and vit B 6 tab as suggested by herman only for 3 days.  During that day, my blood pressure was gone to 160 and doctors told that it shows your zinc and Vit B6 are normal and there is no need to take supplements and he confirmed that it is not related to my POIS.

Later, I consulted, the another doctor, (new) explained all the symtoms and he told he knows how to cure this problem.  He give me scientific reason for the POIS He suggested me the tablet for one month.  I started taking it,  For first one week, I found slight relief, from second week onwards, POIS started diminishing and at the end of second week, my entire POIS cured.  Presently I am in end of one month and there is no POIS symtoms at all.  Yesterday I had three o's and today three. nothing happens.  It seems I am cured. 

But in last several occassions, i cured for first one week by medicine and POIS used to bounce back.  But this time that does not happen and it is already 15 days, I am out of POIS.  Now, I am enjoying normal mental health in last 7 years.  For last 7 years, I was in continuos POIS except some break for a week.  I wanted to wait another 15 days and confirm that there is no POIS bounce back on me, then I will post the treatments taken by me, with scientific reason.  I will be back on March 1st with happy news. 

Friends cure for POIS is very very simple basic thing, but all of us here we forget, finally form that doctor, i came to know about this as he had experience of some patients some patients facing POIS due to that proble.

Hi Nathan,

Interesting ; I've the feeling that a "cure" could come from the eastern world ; here it's 3 bloods test showing nothing and then SSRI's

What "tablet" do you take ?

[meteo74]

Hi nathan123

I hope you are good,but i want to advise you if realy cured ,do not do it with your self you have to do it just with agirl,because ma. is the real reson of p.o.i.s... beleive me.

, waiting for good news,

[LAPOISSE2]

T3 therapy? That's interesting. One of the main causes of elevated serum calcium is hyperparathyroidism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperparathyroidism
You could have this but have low vitamin D which masks it. See http://www.acssurgerynews.com/fileadmin/content_pdf/fpn/archive_pdf/vol37iss4/70214_main.pdf

I take around 5000-6000IU of vitamin D / day. How much were you taking?

I don't think I have hyperparathyroidism - hyperparathyroid adenoma. My PTH (Parathormone) is now on the floor, where it is supposed to be due to excess calcium:

Parathormone 3,3pg/ml *[12-72]
Calcium 10,80 *[8.6-10.7]
Phosphorus 4.70 [2.5-5.0]
Vit D3 85 [50-100]

When I had a lower D level (and before starting T3), it was:

Parathormone 15,4pg/ml [12-72]
Calcium 9,60 [8.6-10.7]
Phosphorus 4.30 [2.5-5.0]
Vit D 23 [50-100]

Don't you agree this would rule out a PT issue?

The elevated calcium has happened twice in a row in latest labs, even if T3 doses where very different and I stopped calcium supplementation in the meantime.
Too much T3 (hypethyroidism) can lead to elevated calcium and bone loss, but I don't feel hypethyroid and thyroid labs are not very indicative when on T3.
I don't get the link between T3 and hyperparathyroidism instead. I am going to have a DEXA scan anyway to check if osteopenia is an issue.

To say it all, I've had a (giant cell) bone tumor last year at right elbow and eventually a surgery for it. So PTH level is one of the things I checked to rule out a PT adenoma. As you see life can be complex (at least mine).

If you have other ideas on this tricky situation feel free to tell me, if it becomes too specific and a bit off topic you can message me.

I think in fact I told you the story of my D dosing in a pvt message. I experimented many ways to D dosing.
I've seen the paradox of low serum D levels after 10000/20000UI daily (couldn't absorb that brand/batch).
I've also tried megadoses of 100000UI every 20 days (equivalent to 5000UI) and it worked, but I was perplexed by the possible spikes and valleys.
Then, before the last lab, I preferred a steady 5000UI daily (and I could absorb that).
Now if I've cut it it down to 5000UI every 2 days (equivalent to 2500UI daily), which I'll possibly suspend for awhile before next labs (I will survive)
I want D to decrease on purpose to see if calcium will eventually get normal. Or it is T3 that's messing up things (unlikely, but to be proved).

If you are taking 5000/6000UI that might be perfect for you, I just suggest you check your D levels and possibly serum calcium regularly and don't rely just on suggested dosage, you never know how much you absorb, how much you produce from sunshine etc...  Taking magnesium, zinc and K2 can be a good idea anyway.

I've been taking 1000UI of D3 for about 3 weeks and I took for the four past days 5000Ui daily ; I had 4 O this week end and I feel pretty good today(lets say 20% symtomatic) ; Based on my experience the probability for me to be OK was 5% so the D vit is maybe  involved.

I'm resistant to pretty much everything, I tried numerous complement without any success ; The problem is I 've no idea how to find out that a suplements works/make symptoms worse/it will works in some days or week/worst at a certain dosage or in combinaison with something else because there is tons of parameters involved like food, stress an other suplement that I took a week before, biologic cycle or disease cycle, sun, etc
Now I stopped everything, i'll just try to take D3 5000Ui for a month and see what happens

[urano75]

I've been taking 1000UI of D3 for about 3 weeks and I took for the four past days 5000Ui daily ; I had 4 O this week end and I feel pretty good today(lets say 20% symtomatic) ; Based on my experience the probability for me to be OK was 5% so the D vit is maybe  involved.

I'm resistant to pretty much everything, I tried numerous complement without any success ; The problem is I 've no idea how to find out that a suplements works/make symptoms worse/it will works in some days or week/worst at a certain dosage or in combinaison with something else because there is tons of parameters involved like food, stress an other suplement that I took a week before, biologic cycle or disease cycle, sun, etc
Now I stopped everything, i'll just try to take D3 5000Ui for a month and see what happens

The majority of people is vit D deficient, so supplementing D could only help for a number of reasons. My recommendation is just to regularly check it and never assume.

[LAPOISSE2]

Yes ; But the majority of people doesn't have chronic and intermittent cognitive issues, fatigue, etc ;

Could D vit deficiency/problem of transportation/usage, etc be the cause of POIS ?

[Gbolduev]

Nathan,

I am glad that you found something that works for you.   According to what I saw you have low thyroid.  Or impaired thyroid.  So I am not sure  what you are taking now,  but it could be  iodine  , lecitin ,  inositol,   vitamin D,  and B group and zinc.
You mentioned  that you are  estrogen  dominant,  so progesterone pill  would help too.  But  it is not a cure. 

I am not sure why couldnt you share with us  what you are  taking.  I guess you are too busy  having SEX.)))

[Gbolduev]

Also I noticted that  many people were helped with Adrenal support with B5   C  B complex  Manganese

[meteo74]

Hi all

I had adeficiency of v. d3, but now after treatment my d3 balance is normal,and i still in pois,
so v.d3 has no effect on pois.

[nathan123]

Nathan,

I am glad that you found something that works for you.   According to what I saw you have low thyroid.  Or impaired thyroid.  So I am not sure  what you are taking now,  but it could be  iodine  , lecitin ,  inositol,   vitamin D,  and B group and zinc.
You mentioned  that you are  estrogen  dominant,  so progesterone pill  would help too.  But  it is not a cure. 

I am not sure why couldnt you share with us  what you are  taking.  I guess you are too busy  having SEX.)))

Dear Gbolduev,

Don't make assumptions and presumptions on thyroid disorder.  I consulted no.1 specilaist in our region and he concluded my thyroid is perfect by seeing my laboratory results.  Further, regarding my estrogen high (it was 54) where normal range was 30 to 50.  My doctor told that it is due excess weight in the body.  Doctor confirmed that estrogen was slightly high than normal and I am not at all Estrogen Dominant.  I am not at all taking progesterone, iodine  , lecitin ,  inositol,   vitamin D,  and B group and zinc as assumed by you as the same is not worked for me.  As per your suggestion earlier I tried B 6 and Zinc and within two days my BP was high. Doctor advised to not to take it as there is no need. 

I am not taking Allopathy medicine, rather I am in Ayurvedic Medicine.  This gives me a cure in just one month treatment.  You are right, now I am busy in SEX because my POIS cured. 
You for giving your theory, you took so many days in your skype by asking various reports and silly things daily body temperature for one week. 

Same way I also required to confirm that my POIS was cured and I am not providing any false thing to this forum.  From the past one year, I am respecting this forum as it provides me a opportunity me to know what is POIS.  That's why I told will post the result on 1st April. 

In this forum we are following one rule called two week rule.  That is the reason why I not posted my treatments.  Now I cured from the past 25 days and completed 2 week rule period.  But I want to confirm still upto March 31st that my POIS not bounce back on me. 

[Gbolduev]

Thanks Nathan for your reply.

It will be interesting to know what you are taking.   Are you taking it all the time, or you  just took it  and then  quit.   If you are taking it all the time then  it makes sense,  you can just take  herbs that raise your testosterone and you will be cured,  but   the  actualy problem will stay inside.

[Gbolduev]

I tried many  Ayurvedic Medicine/

Ashwagandas,  tumerics gingers , shilajit gugullu and others/  Anything for the prostate to  diminish DHT burning to stop   premature ejaculation and  also to  reboot hormones,  since the impulse   should be big to  reboot your system.  They all worked for POIS.     But the core problem did not go away

[Gbolduev]

OH yeah , and also  Gingseng.  Which   helped and then I started to have panic attacks on it.  It raises  sodium and mimics adrenal glands. )))

[Gbolduev]

I almost died from Tongkat Ali,  if anybody tried that.  Yohimbe screwed up my nervous system  eventually and  tribullus  completely  screwed me over.