[B_Daniel]

Over at FeelAlike, a few of us were talking about our ceruloplasmin levels.  Of the three of us that had it tested, our levels were 12, 18, and 21  (the reference range is 20-60).

Herman, between this forum and the russian forum, there must've been at least another 5+ ppl that have had their ceruloplasmin tested and provided you.  Can you tell us what % of people have low ceruloplasmin?

[Gbolduev]

Daniel ,

I have quite a few tests,   I would say over 90% of them have low ceruloplasmin  levels.   Ceruloplasmin levels could be low because of frank copper deficiency or   copper toxicity  like Wilsons.  Weak adrenals are the cause  of this mostly.   Сeruloplasmin  is involved with iron  metabolism and that is why  copper deficiency or bioavailability   leads to anemia, that most people  have here.    I found that  regulating  3 minerals   copper zinc and  manganese   takes care of this problem.  if you have high ferritin and low iron in your blood ,  it means that you might miss copper and manganese to utilize it and you will get POIS from  basically anemia since during stress  copper is used  greatly ( orgasm).  So  when you orgasm  your  hemoglobin  levels  go down since your iron and copper are low as it is.   If you  have  low ferritin  , it could mean that you are copper toxic and  your adrenals are  shut and that way  you  still have low copper available for  hemoglobin.   It does not matter how you  twist it,  most of the POIS is about   manganese copper zinc iron balance.  All other stuff like methylation ,  acetylcholines gabas and dopamine  serotonin all depend on these metals.  Also  all 4  metals are needed for the thyroid  gland and its proper functioning.   Most doctors  look at the thyroid  tests and see nothing there. I dont want to even argue  with someone about it, since I  personally experienced the difference  from low thryroid high thyroid and  normal thyroid, while   the tests were all in  normal ranges. But my condition changed so much  it is not even funny.  So doctors  should really reconsider on how  they look at the tests for people with thyroid problems.  TSH of 3 is way way  way too high.

Anyway , I hope this helps.    As a note, I want to add that  nowadays   copper toxicity  thing is  very very popular thing and  people  go on  these  detox adventures  . Many sites bs the same thing over and over again , about how  copper is not used and how it is not bound and stuff like that. Personally I think  copper deficiency is  more common than toxicity especially in men. All these bs artists take their info from 2-3 sources on the web.   I am sure that  no one  opened people up and found copper deposited all over organs . Actually I  read quiet a few studies where they opened people up and  found  low copper in  heart and  lungs and  stomach which  caused death.    I think iron is  everywhere now, almost in all the foods that people eat,    cadmium is  in ciggaretes , zinc  is all over the place. No wonder  there is no copper.   But iron  chelates   all 3 of them  manganese copper and zinc.  I think most people have low available levels of these metals.   Hey  in Russia  there is bucкwheat and  all  cancer patients  seem to do really well on buckwheat diet.  WHY?     answer is simple,  buckwheat is full of manganese zinc and copper.   HIV studies also show that  HIV gets undercontrol  with  manganese  zinc and copper supplements.   SOD  works on these 3 also. 

So Daniel , to be healthy  you need to have   proper balance between these  and also  they need to be in  enough  quantities for your enzymes.   
Hairloss people,   manganese and copper and zinc will restore  your hair.  There is a study I read that found that  in all hair loss cases manganese deficiency presented in all 100% cases. Plus zinc plus copper.  Manganese  for instance  helps biotin  metabolism and vitamin E metabolism. Which is crucial for hair.

Good luck.

[LAPOISSE2]

Long story short,

I am convinced that POIS causes inflammation and therefore with inflammation comes inflammation in the brain, hence the cognitive symptoms. You guys have to understand that brain inflammation affects the amygdala, which means it messes with our emotional system. This is why anti-inflammatory medication such as non-steroidical-anti-inflammatory-drugs AKA Advil or CELEBREX (for beginners) AKA NSAIDS work well. My assumption is that niacin works similar to NSAIDS. Something I noticed when I started taking niacin a few days before my O that I had last night is that when I took niacin, of course I had mild flush symptoms but I also "felt my brain more" and actually experienced a feeling of more blood flow going to my brain which is a really good sign.

At this point, I am also convinced that our disorder is identical to Celiac AKD Gluten allergy.
People with this kind of allergy undergo identical symptoms to POIS and of course the only way to prevent the reactions is by abstaining by food of wheat, barley and etc..
After researching a little more about Celiac disease, they have found that there is a type of "cytokine" named Interleukin-15 that created the inflammatory response and therefore they are currently in the process of developing a medication that would essentially block Interleukin-15 and therefore people with Celiac will no longer experience these symptoms. I stongly believe that this medication can help us too.

If you guys want to look in to this a little more these are some things you can search for:

IL-15 blockers
Interleukin 15 blocker
Celiac disease symptoms
Brain inflammation symptoms

I would be more that happy to hear your thoughts!

Good day gentlemen, stay strong

Interesting...Indeed, there is connection with brain fog ; Anyone ever tried gluten free diet with improvment ? What could be the connection with O ?
Anyways I'm 100% sure my POIS in inflammation related ; The problem is with Nsaids,is would burn my stomach to solve a intestin problem...

[Erik]

Hello to all,

'm from Germany and have to use because of my poor English the translator.
This is my first post, I have been following the forum but a long time.
Have especially back pain and some psychological symptoms, including sleep disturbances after orgasm.
I inquire after many years in power and the conviction that triggers an inflammation, histamine and prostaglandins are released. This is due to an autoimmune disease or allergy. The immune system tries to fix this inflammation and consumed raw materials as the amino acid kynurenine.
These key ingredients are also used for production of hormones and neurotransmitters. So there is always a shortage of hormones and neurotransmitters such as serotonin, so the symptoms.
've Tried all kinds of drugs: painkillers, Entzündunshemmer, antidepressants, vitamins and more. Nothing has helped has become even worse. The only help you practice the orgasm as seldom as possible, which is not easy.

Greetings to all

[thereishope]

Long story short,

I am convinced that POIS causes inflammation and therefore with inflammation comes inflammation in the brain, hence the cognitive symptoms. You guys have to understand that brain inflammation affects the amygdala, which means it messes with our emotional system. This is why anti-inflammatory medication such as non-steroidical-anti-inflammatory-drugs AKA Advil or CELEBREX (for beginners) AKA NSAIDS work well. My assumption is that niacin works similar to NSAIDS. Something I noticed when I started taking niacin a few days before my O that I had last night is that when I took niacin, of course I had mild flush symptoms but I also "felt my brain more" and actually experienced a feeling of more blood flow going to my brain which is a really good sign.

At this point, I am also convinced that our disorder is identical to Celiac AKD Gluten allergy.
People with this kind of allergy undergo identical symptoms to POIS and of course the only way to prevent the reactions is by abstaining by food of wheat, barley and etc..
After researching a little more about Celiac disease, they have found that there is a type of "cytokine" named Interleukin-15 that created the inflammatory response and therefore they are currently in the process of developing a medication that would essentially block Interleukin-15 and therefore people with Celiac will no longer experience these symptoms. I stongly believe that this medication can help us too.

If you guys want to look in to this a little more these are some things you can search for:

IL-15 blockers
Interleukin 15 blocker
Celiac disease symptoms
Brain inflammation symptoms

I would be more that happy to hear your thoughts!

Good day gentlemen, stay strong

Interesting...Indeed, there is connection with brain fog ; Anyone ever tried gluten free diet with improvment ? What could be the connection with O ?
Anyways I'm 100% sure my POIS in inflammation related ; The problem is with Nsaids,is would burn my stomach to solve a intestin problem...

Hey LAPOISSE2,

In my post I am not suggesting that we should eat no gluten related foods; all I am suggesting is that our disorder is identical to gluten allergy AKA Celiac disease.

The only difference between POIS and Celiac is the cause of the disorder; while us its orgasm that causes inflmattion in the brain, for Celiac its gluten that causes the inflammation. So by all means don't waste your time trying to have a gluten free diet because you will have no results!

Thank you for acknowledging my post!

[urano75]

Long story short,

I am convinced that POIS causes inflammation and therefore with inflammation comes inflammation in the brain, hence the cognitive symptoms. You guys have to understand that brain inflammation affects the amygdala, which means it messes with our emotional system. This is why anti-inflammatory medication such as non-steroidical-anti-inflammatory-drugs AKA Advil or CELEBREX (for beginners) AKA NSAIDS work well. My assumption is that niacin works similar to NSAIDS. Something I noticed when I started taking niacin a few days before my O that I had last night is that when I took niacin, of course I had mild flush symptoms but I also "felt my brain more" and actually experienced a feeling of more blood flow going to my brain which is a really good sign.

At this point, I am also convinced that our disorder is identical to Celiac AKD Gluten allergy.
People with this kind of allergy undergo identical symptoms to POIS and of course the only way to prevent the reactions is by abstaining by food of wheat, barley and etc..
After researching a little more about Celiac disease, they have found that there is a type of "cytokine" named Interleukin-15 that created the inflammatory response and therefore they are currently in the process of developing a medication that would essentially block Interleukin-15 and therefore people with Celiac will no longer experience these symptoms. I stongly believe that this medication can help us too.

If you guys want to look in to this a little more these are some things you can search for:

IL-15 blockers
Interleukin 15 blocker
Celiac disease symptoms
Brain inflammation symptoms

I would be more that happy to hear your thoughts!

Good day gentlemen, stay strong

Interesting...Indeed, there is connection with brain fog ; Anyone ever tried gluten free diet with improvment ? What could be the connection with O ?
Anyways I'm 100% sure my POIS in inflammation related ; The problem is with Nsaids,is would burn my stomach to solve a intestin problem...

I've been gluten free for 1.5 years, and gluten-casein free for 6 months. It didn't really help with post-sex symptoms, probably didn't help much with adrenal/thyroid issues, and caused me a lot of stress. Now I consume gluten with moderation, and goat/sheep casein. I'm not celiac, but so many say it damages intestinal walls and villi that I prefer being cautious. Some say that a leaky gut is the source of autoimmune diseases, and one of the causes of chronic inflammation.
The problem with gluten/casein sensitivity (not celiac disease) is that a fully reliable test does not exist, so one could try a 30 days challenge completely gluten/casein free and see how it goes. Cutting all grains at this stage can be useful too (yes, you will survive). Then reintroduce them one by one and see the reactions.
Inflammatory indicators are high CRP, high ferritin with low serum iron,...
Inflammation can be kept under control limiting sugars, eating moderate amounts of the right carbs (insulin control), using fish/krill oil or curcumin, fixing adrenals/thyroid to name few ways. Prescription drugs can't be a viable long-term solution, in my view, because of the side effects, and because they won't address the root cause anyway, while just suppressing the symptoms.

[B_Daniel]

Hi Erik - we're thrilled to have you as a contributor, thanks for writing.

I agree that my POIS likely has an auto-immune component.  When I take advil / ibuprofen, I typically get a few hours of increased mood and more fluid thought.  This was such a big breakthrough for me last year, that I asked to be put on a 24-hour NSAID.  I felt better the 1st day, but after that I returned to my same groggy state. 

So auto-immune does play a role with me, I just don't believe it plays a large role.  I also had my total IgE levels tested and was within the reference range for whatever that counts for. 

Part of Herman's theory is that some of us with 'pois' (Herman doesn't recognize pois so I put it in quotes) are in an inflammatory state and the rest of us are in an infection state.  To me, there seems to be some validity to that argument.  If we took a poll, I bet you many people here would identify with one or the other, and not many to both. 

In the same vein, I think it'd be interesting to split the forum up into an infection group and an inflammation group.  I have a feeling that we'd see some trends surface of similar symptoms and successful treatments within the respective groups . 

[LAPOISSE2]

I there is hope,

I read a bit too quick ; sometimes we are looking for simple answers to complicated things...

Cognitive problem in coeliac are due to a decrease absorption in nutrients and vitamines ; diet and vits complements seems to help with POIS

I dont know about long term efficacity of Nsaids but we probably need to considers an inflamation either in the digestive system or directly in the brain.

B daniel, what do you mean by infection state ? Do you mean virus, bacteria, fungus ?

[Gbolduev]

Daniel,

I am glad that you are realizing the stuff that I told you now.  POIS happens from loss of energy . It could be  in infection state or  inflmmation state.  In both states you  lose  energy and  your testosterone  production goes down.   
Basically if you are low on  zinc  or copper , you will  lose  energy   since  zinc and copper equals  electricity .

I might   have a solution for you people here. I dont know if anyone tried it .   Most of you here  have  bad metabolism and bad stomachs , bad  hormonal status.  So  instead of doing hormonal crap  and   going on extensive programs,  may be we can   cut it to the chase and bring  minerals to where they  are needed the most. 


How about   zinc copper   ring  on your balls or how else they call it.  I would imagine that would work  pretty good.  Since you will be getting zinc and copper and  electrical   charge that these too metals  create. 

I wish  someone tries that.  May be  when testosterone production  kicks in  , it will aleviate  all other problems. 

[Gbolduev]

Since most  inflammation is caused from  testosterone dificiency really

[gondal4]

my testosteron level is normal

[Gbolduev]

What is normal.  Give me numbers.  It should be in  upper range.   The range for testosterone  is for  15-80 years old.  So if you are in  low  quarter of the range, that means you are 60.)))

[urano75]

My labs:

Testosterone           8.80  [3-10.6]
Free Testosterone    23     [5.5-42]
SHBG                      36.6  [15-100]
17-beta-Estradiol     32,35  [<60]
Prolactin                  11,47  [<20]

So I don't think my problems come from sex-hormones imbalances.

Also, I've been supplementing zinc and copper for 2 years, in the last few months zinc 100mg and copper 5mg.
As to the B5, I have been taking 3*3g a day for 2 years.

My hormonal problem from a labs perspective is low adrenal function, which results in less than optimal salivar cortisol and low DHEA. And eventually low FT3/rT3 ratio.
My average temps are good now on T3, but they still fluctuate day by day, which is a sign of adrenal weakness.

I do suffer from recurring viral infections, but this doesn't rule out the possibility of inflammatory conditions, toxicity and malabsorption (I would say frequently one brings the other).

[Starsky]

Gboludev said that B5 speeds up the adrenals, so you could have problem of to fast adrenals so even you feed them it will be really fast burned. For me your supplementation must have a failure and for me its the large dose of B5 which speed up the adrenals and lowers the thyroid because its the inverse reaction. Read all Gboludev posts and you will see your problem.

Btw. Is it ok to have Testosterone in the high range and free testosterone in the low range?

[urano75]

Gboludev said that B5 speeds up the adrenals, so you could have problem of to fast adrenals so even you feed them it will be really fast burned. For me your supplementation must have a failure and for me its the large dose of B5 which speed up the adrenals and lowers the thyroid because its the inverse reaction. Read all Gboludev posts and you will see your problem.

Btw. Is it ok to have Testosterone in the high range and free testosterone in the low range?

B5 supports adrenals activity, that's it. I don't have high cortisol problems now.
I have no low thyroid function, just a conversion issue at tissue levels due to adrenal weakness.
Free testosterone is mid-range, which I don't see as a problem at age 38, being SHBG low. Ranges vary from lab to lab.
Reading some posts I see lots of assumptions, mainly.

[urano75]

Moreover, I personally know people with very low testo not having any POIS symptoms, while I've read of many here with normal testo, so that can't be *the* only explanation. Things are more complex than that.

[LAPOISSE2]

I've had my testo et bio available testo 3 times ; My total testo was fine 2 times, low 1 times ; My bio available testo was 3 times very low(70yo person and i'm 29) ; I'm albumine and my SHBG was high 3 times(upper limit of the range).

I would not be amazed to find out that orgasm over consume bio available testo and that there is abnormal variation in testo/albumine/SHBG. The only way to find out is perform several blood tests over a certain period of times...research going on would maybe do that.

For me the testosterone chapter is not closed ; Looking at that for a sex related disease is not a bad idea and Demographix claims at least 6 persons have been cured with TRT

[urano75]

I've had my testo et bio available testo 3 times ; My total testo was fine 2 times, low 1 times ; My bio available testo was 3 times very low(70yo person and i'm 29) ; I'm albumine and my SHBG was high 3 times(upper limit of the range).

I would not be amazed to find out that orgasm over consume bio available testo and that there is abnormal variation in testo/albumine/SHBG. The only way to find out is perform several blood tests over a certain period of times...research going on would maybe do that.

For me the testosterone chapter is not closed ; Looking at that for a sex related disease is not a bad idea and Demographix claims at least 6 persons have been cured with TRT

It's definitively a good idea to look at sex hormones especially if your labs revealed them low. Also, each time we speak of hormones, we have to see how they actually work at cellular level, not just the serum values. And there aren't always reliable labs for that. Insulin, blood sugar, cortisol, thyroid hormones, testo, enzymes, vitamins and minerals interplay is kind of complex, just to name few relevant factors.
Some would like to isolate a couple of points and hope that working on them everything will be fixed. Possibly for someone. We're complex and all different, can't generalize.
There are people with low testo with no POIS.
There are 60 years old men with sexually active life and no POIS.

[LAPOISSE2]

There is two possibility : either "we are all different" and we all have a specifics unknow disease with some similarities or we all have the same "syndrome" with specificities depending of persons ; I think define a disease is generalize ; doens't not mean there is no personal deviation is the disease.

Considering, there is no literature anywhere specking about cognitive difficulties related to sexual activities, I think we are in case two and we(most of us) may have the same problem, so the same kind of solution should be adressed.

[LAPOISSE2]

Morover, as the symtoms are not constant I would not be amazed if blood dosage varies a lot ;

Only possibility know 100% : 15 dosages over 72 hours on 20 POIS person with the good markers targeted and compared with normal group person ; as neurotransmuitors in the brain are impossible to monitor, I would start with sex/orgasm hormones