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Origin of magnetic force

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Offline Spring Theory

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #80 on: 09/07/2022 13:05:01 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 08/07/2022 02:29:44


What happens if one of the electrons is moving? How do the electrons know the position of the other electrons to direct the concave curvature of space?
What's the picture for attractive force between a positive charge and a negative charge?

The electrons are always spinning and flipping.  Picture the electron tumbling all over the place. Think of the effect as an average of the pulse the another particle might "feel".

No graphic yet for the positron - electron interaction, but just flip the charge sign and the curvature to convex on one side and now you have a negative billiard ball collision (attraction).

Another testable prediction for this model is that positrons are unstable and will decay without interaction from an electron.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #81 on: 09/07/2022 13:18:29 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 09/07/2022 13:05:01
Another testable prediction for this model is that positrons are unstable and will decay without interaction from an electron.
So, that's testable.
No positron decay has been observed. Positrons are stable.
So we know that the idea failed the test.
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Offline Spring Theory

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #82 on: 09/07/2022 13:26:40 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/07/2022 13:18:29
Positrons
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/07/2022 13:18:29
Quote from: Spring Theory on 09/07/2022 13:05:01
Another testable prediction for this model is that positrons are unstable and will decay without interaction from an electron.
So, that's testable.
No positron decay has been observed. Positrons are stable.
So we know that the idea failed the test.

Incorrect.  Never been tested. Positrons find an electron too quickly.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #83 on: 09/07/2022 13:33:09 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 09/07/2022 13:26:40
Incorrect.  Never been tested. Positrons find an electron too quickly.
You are right; your statement there is incorrect.
It has been tested.
The positrons  in accelerators are stable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Electron%E2%80%93Positron_Collider

Were you not aware of what is probably one of the best known bits of scientific kit in the world?
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Offline paul cotter

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #84 on: 09/07/2022 13:35:04 »
Positronium? particle or cationic species?
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Offline Spring Theory

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #85 on: 09/07/2022 14:22:22 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/07/2022 13:33:09
Quote from: Spring Theory on 09/07/2022 13:26:40
Incorrect.  Never been tested. Positrons find an electron too quickly.
You are right; your statement there is incorrect.
It has been tested.
The positrons  in accelerators are stable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Electron%E2%80%93Positron_Collider

Were you not aware of what is probably one of the best known bits of scientific kit in the world?


Pretty useless comment, but I will attempt to penetrate the steel trap...

Show me a similar test like the Kamiokande experiment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay
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Offline puppypower

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #86 on: 09/07/2022 16:26:52 »
The electron is an elementary particle, which means it is a single thing that cannot be broken down further. It cannot be composed of mass and charge that are treated as two separate things, since the electron behaves as one thing and has never been broken down into the assumed two things. The easiest way to explain this is that the mass and charge of the electron are connected via an aspect of the unified force, allowing the mass and charge to become interchangeable; one thing.

Mass and gravity have not been integrated into the unified theory of force. This is because the obvious has been overlooked. You guys went down the  wrong rabbit hole and did did not infer the obvious.

Positron and electrons are both elementary particles each with mass and charge. These tend to find each other and annihilate. On the other hand the electron and proton can find each other but do not annihilate.

The reason electrons and protons can also find each other, but do not annihilate, like electrons and positrons, is because only electrons and positrons can interact via an aspect of the unified force. The electron and proton cannot do this, since the proton is not an elementary particle; its mass and charge can break apart, so they cannot both use the unified force under normal conditions.

If I was to model the unified mass and charge of the electron, as connected to the unified force, it would be graphed as a sine wave with charge above the x-axis and mass below the x-axis. The only time mass and charge appear as separated, is at the top and bottom of the sine wave peaks. In the middle, is  mass/charge under the unified force. The positron and electron can interact via the entire sine wave, while electron and proton, only as the peaks. 

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #87 on: 09/07/2022 16:33:43 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 09/07/2022 14:22:22
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/07/2022 13:33:09
Quote from: Spring Theory on 09/07/2022 13:26:40
Incorrect.  Never been tested. Positrons find an electron too quickly.
You are right; your statement there is incorrect.
It has been tested.
The positrons  in accelerators are stable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Electron%E2%80%93Positron_Collider

Were you not aware of what is probably one of the best known bits of scientific kit in the world?


Pretty useless comment, but I will attempt to penetrate the steel trap...

Show me a similar test like the Kamiokande experiment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay

No.
That's not the way it works.
You are the one making the extraordinary claim.
Responsibility to show that your idea is right falls to you.
Show us your extraordinary evidence.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #88 on: 09/07/2022 16:35:47 »
Quote from: puppypower on 09/07/2022 16:26:52
It cannot be composed of mass and charge that are treated as two separate things, since the electron behaves as one thing and has never been broken down into the assumed two things
This is nonsense.
It's like saying that, because a soda can has a height and a colour, you think that colour and height are the same thing.
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Online hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #89 on: 09/07/2022 16:57:58 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 09/07/2022 13:05:01
Another testable prediction for this model is that positrons are unstable and will decay without interaction from an electron.
How did you derive that prediction from the axioms in your model?
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Online hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #90 on: 15/01/2023 13:28:17 »
Quote from: Eternal Student on 30/06/2022 13:40:36
Is it a problem?   It's often required that the positive charges don't and can't spread out despite a Lorentz contraction.   The positive charges are the metal atoms and they are locked into a lattice.    Even when Lorentz contraction puts them closer together and suggests there should be increased repulsion between them, the metal atoms cannot move apart.
     However the electrons are not like that, they are free to move around and can spread out.
What happens to those metal atoms?
Does the same thing happen to ions in electrolytic solutions?
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Online hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #91 on: 15/01/2023 13:30:27 »
Here's another video trying to explain electromagnetic force using length contraction.

Imagine that the wire is replaced by a hose containing electrolytic solution. Positive ions and negative ions move to the opposite direction at the same speed. Will the test particle experience a force?
« Last Edit: 15/01/2023 13:36:48 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #92 on: 15/01/2023 14:58:46 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/07/2022 03:30:11
The electrons move to the right through single wire, and move to the right through double wire. Since the current is the same, average velocity of the electrons through single wire must be twice as the electrons through double wire.
No. The drift velocity is the same but twice as many are moving through any plane perpendicular to the axis of the wire. Imagine a wide road with a rigid speed limit. If you want to move more cars in a given time, you just occupy more lanes.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #93 on: 15/01/2023 15:02:46 »
Quote from: paul cotter on 09/07/2022 13:35:04
Positronium? particle or cationic species?
Particle, definintely. A single positron or proton is cationic but positronium is electrically neutral during its brief life. Not to be confused with positronium ions, however, which contain an additional p or e and are much less stable..
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Online hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #94 on: 15/01/2023 17:16:55 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 15/01/2023 14:58:46
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/07/2022 03:30:11
The electrons move to the right through single wire, and move to the right through double wire. Since the current is the same, average velocity of the electrons through single wire must be twice as the electrons through double wire.
No. The drift velocity is the same but twice as many are moving through any plane perpendicular to the axis of the wire. Imagine a wide road with a rigid speed limit. If you want to move more cars in a given time, you just occupy more lanes.
What is the fundamental reason for the emergence/constancy of the drift velocity?
Is it the same for different substances?
Is it still the same if the current is nearly zero?
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Online hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #95 on: 15/01/2023 17:33:34 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 15/01/2023 13:30:27
Here's another video trying to explain electromagnetic force using length contraction.

Imagine that the wire is replaced by a hose containing electrolytic solution. Positive ions and negative ions move to the opposite direction at the same speed. Will the test particle experience a force?

A problem with the video is it doesn't provide quantitative explanation. How much change in the force if the velocities are changed?
If the velocity of the particle is doubled, will the force also double?
If the wire also moves, will the formula still give the correct answer?
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Online hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #96 on: 18/01/2023 15:56:18 »
Magnetic Vortices in motion and Magnetic Gradients
Quote
Magnetic gradients help explain how magnetism works.  In this video SuperMagnetMan presents new ways to see the magnetic vortices and understand how magnetic gradients can affect magnetic applications.  Many different applications depend on understanding gradients in order to develop the right solution.
I don't think I can find the explanation in this video in a physics textbook.
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Online hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #97 on: 17/03/2023 22:26:57 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 15/01/2023 17:33:34
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 15/01/2023 13:30:27
Here's another video trying to explain electromagnetic force using length contraction.

Imagine that the wire is replaced by a hose containing electrolytic solution. Positive ions and negative ions move to the opposite direction at the same speed. Will the test particle experience a force?

A problem with the video is it doesn't provide quantitative explanation. How much change in the force if the velocities are changed?
If the velocity of the particle is doubled, will the force also double?
If the wire also moves, will the formula still give the correct answer?
Imagine a simple parallel electric circuit consisting of 3 horizontal wires 1 meter long with 1 cm separation. Top wire contains a 1 Volt battery, while the other wires each contain 1 Ohm resistor.

When the circuit is closed, electrons in top wire move to the right, while in the other wires, electrons move to the left. Middle wire is pushed down by top wire while being pulled down by bottom wire. Positively charged test particles stationary to the circuit doesn't seem to experience electromagnetic force by the wires.

Where do the force on the wires come from?
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Offline Christylalge

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #98 on: 24/03/2023 08:21:01 »
how about one that activates with The Clapper?

"Size matters not. Look at me Judge me by my size do you? And well you should not For my ally is the force, and a powerful ally it is"
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Online hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #99 on: 26/03/2023 23:11:34 »
Here's a newly discovered phenomenon involving magnet.
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