[Atkhenaken (OP)]

I believe that viruses don't exist and nobody has ever seen a virus. The concept of the virus was first thought up when it was discovered that bacteria are not responsible for making people sick. Thus, they had to come up with a new form of germ which could account for the existence of disease. When you look at pictures of so called 'viruses' they generally all look the same. They are just tiny uniform blobs. I believe these blobs are just fugal material which has been incubated on a petri dish. The concept of a virus is illogical because viruses don't have any means of locomotion or any sensory organs. Thus, they can't protect themselves or hunt their prey. Thus, they are an illogical organism which is incapable of surviving for more than a second or two. The virus would be incapable of entering a cell wall because (a) it wouldn't be able to detect or find the cell wall. (b) It wouldn't have any means of digging a hole through the wall.

Thus, as we can plainly see, the virus is a totally illogical 'life form'. The conception of the virus is just a money making scam which provides pharmaceutical companies with the opportunity to make billions of dollars from gullible people who will buy chemical concoctions which supposedly kill said 'viruses'.

So what causes disease then? The answer is that the modern diet is responsible. Sugar, grain, dairy and alcohol are all unnatural products which the human digestive system can't cope with and many people get sick because of this. That accounts for 98% of all disease. The other 2% of disease can be blamed on consumption of fecal material, pesticides, fungicides, heavy metals and halogens. (chlorine, fluorine and bromine)

[syhprum]

I checked the date it is not the first of April 1 ! how did this bizarre post sneak in ?

[evan_au]

When you look at pictures of so called 'viruses' they generally all look the same. They are just tiny uniform blobs.

If you are looking at an infection of a single type of virus, then all the blobs will look the same.

But if you look at different types of virus, they look quite different. They differ dramatically in size and shape: rods (tobacco mosaic virus), icosahedral (adenovirus), or like pieces of spaghetti (ebola).
Their genetic code is also radically different between different virus types - RNA or DNA (single or double-stranded), positive or negative, etc.
And they attack radically different hosts.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus#Structure

The virus would be incapable of entering a cell wall because (a) it wouldn't be able to detect or find the cell wall. (b) It wouldn't have any means of digging a hole through the wall.

(a) When doctors talk about the "H1N1" flu virus, the "H" part describes the version of the Hemagglutinin protein, which attaches to cell walls in the nose throat and lungs. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#Structure.2C_properties.2C_and_subtype_nomenclature
(b) The flu virus is sucked into the cell by the cell itself engulfing the protein. Some bacteriophage viruses have a structure which resembles a hypodermic syringe, which injects the viral genes inside the cell wall.

I believe these blobs are just fungal material

A fungus is a self-replicating organism, carrying all the genes necessary to create a new fungus cell; they have sizes of 12000 kilobases and up.
A virus hijacks the host cell's machinery to propagate, and can get by with a much smaller genome (2 kilobases and up).
The largest known viruses (Pandoravirus, at 2000 kilobases) is much smaller then the smallest fungus genome.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genome#Genome_size

pharmaceutical companies with the opportunity to make billions of dollars from gullible people who will buy chemical concoctions which supposedly kill said 'viruses'.

There are very few antiviral medications which have proven effective once you are infected. The HIV anti-retrovirals have been an outstanding exception, and these are given away royalty-free in the poorest countries of the world. They are responsible for a significant improvement in life expectancy for those living with HIV.

Overall, the most effective protection against viruses has been vaccination, mosquito nets, hand-washing and similar infection-control strategies.

Unfortunately, many people insist that their doctors give them antibiotics when they have a virus; this doesn't help the viral infection, but it does promote antibiotic resistance in the bacterial population.

how did this bizarre post sneak in ?

I think Atkhenaken has been brainwashed by the priests of Ra...

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

Quote -

But if you look at different types of virus, they look quite different. They differ dramatically in size and shape: rods (tobacco mosaic virus), icosahedral (adenovirus), or like pieces of spaghetti (ebola).
Their genetic code is also radically different between different virus types - RNA or DNA (single or double-stranded), positive or negative, etc.
And they attack radically different hosts.


Reply - How do they attack? They have no eyes, legs, arms, ears, nose or brain to think out a strategy. The whole concept of a virus is a complete nonsense. A bad diet clearly explains how and why people get sick. I have been testing the diet theory for decades and it always works. When I avoid certain foods I never get sick. I am an expert in Photoshop, so I know how easy it is to create these computer generated images. Viruses are supposed to be single celled - so how do you explain these long spaghetti viruses? They appear to make a mockery of the single cell virus concept, in my humble opinion.

Why is it that no scientist has ever been able to reproduce, in a laboratory, the same virus from two different individuals who are infected with the same virus?


Quote - (a) When doctors talk about the "H1N1" flu virus, the "H" part describes the version of the Hemagglutinin protein, which attaches to cell walls in the nose throat and lungs.
(b) The flu virus is sucked into the cell by the cell itself engulfing the protein. Some bacteriophage viruses have a structure which resembles a hypodermic syringe, which injects the viral genes inside the cell wall.

Reply - I don't get the flu. There is only one disease which is called vitamin deficiency. All so called 'viruses' are just variations of vitamin deficiencies. Different vitamin deficiencies result in different diseases. If you have sufficient fibre in your diet your gut bacteria will protect you from getting sick. This is a known fact.


The funny looking spider virus which has legs and a syringe type injection system - This is a physical impossibility because viruses are only single celled. To have functioning legs which contract requires the use of muscle tissue and complex joint structures which a single celled life form couldn't possibly have. Thus, it  is a totally illogical creature which has been manipulated into existence using Photoshop.



HIV is the result of the gay lifestyle of late nights, alcohol, drugs, bad diet, lack of vitamins and unsanitary habits in regards to fecal material. It has nothing to do with viruses.

See Dr Stefan Lanka's website for further information.

[chiralSPO]

Some people also suffer from a combination of ignorance and arrogance.

This thread appears to be focused on the thesis that virology is a conspiracy. Therefore I have moved it to the "that CAN'T be true" sub-forum, where widely accepted science can be dismissed.

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

The priests of the inquisition are moving in on me so soon. I must be getting closer to the truth! lol

[puppypower]

Virus exists. However, virus, as normally represented in textbooks, organic aspects, are inanimate matter. A virus will not become animated or semi-alive unless they bind with water.

Once you add water to the structure of the virus, the virus can make use of the aqueous gradients of the cell, which becomes the means by which virus can appear to be consciously moving. There is a co-partnership in life between water and organics. Water makes the organics come alive, while the hydrated organics induce the water into local potentials, which set up aqueous gradients. The virus made alive by the water, becomes directed via the cellular gradients, which the hydrated virus can then influence, so it can perpetuate itself.

Below are a few quotes about the importance of water relative to protein activity and molecular recognition.The activity of the viral genetic material is also dependent on the degree of hydration. The DNA itself, contains a double helix of water, which is rarely shown as being part of its structure, even though DNA will not work properly without this double helix of water.


Protein hydration is very important for their three-dimensional structure, dynamic ensemble of conformations [2249] and activity [472, 1093, 1345, 2005]. Fluctuations of the protein surface groups are driven and controlled by the surrounding network of water molecules [2648]. Indeed, proteins lack biological activity in the absence of sufficient hydrating water (usually at least a monolayer covering; > 1.5 mols H2O mol-1 amino acid residue).

Water molecules form an integral part of most protein-protein [1339], protein-DNA [1340] and protein-ligand [1341] interactions, aiding the mutual recognition and both the binding thermodynamics and binding kinetics [1338]. The relative diameters of the binding cavity and the ligand determine the kinetics and thermodynamics of (hydrophobic) binding cavity-ligand systems, involving a sharp (cooperative) deleting transition in formation and a continuous deleting transition on ligand loss.
 
Nucleic acid hydration is crucially important for their conformation and utility [1093], as noted by Watson and Crick [828]. The strength of these aqueous interactions is far greater than those for proteins due to their highly ionic character [542b]. The DNA double helix can take up a number of conformations (for example, right handed A-DNA pitch 28.2 Å 11 bp, B-DNA pitch 34 Å 10 bp, C-DNA pitch 31Å 9.33 bp, D-DNA pitch 24.2 Å 8 bp and the left handed Z-DNA pitch 43Å 12 bp) with differing hydration. The predominant natural DNA, B-DNA, has a wide and deep major groove and a narrow and deep minor groove and requires the greatest hydration.

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

Virus exists. However, virus, as normally represented in textbooks, organic aspects, are inanimate matter. A virus will not become animated or semi-alive unless they bind with water.

Once you add water to the structure of the virus, the virus can make use of the aqueous gradients of the cell, which becomes the means by which virus can appear to be consciously moving. There is a co-partnership in life between water and organics. Water makes the organics come alive, while the hydrated organics induce the water into local potentials, which set up aqueous gradients. The virus made alive by the water, becomes directed via the cellular gradients, which the hydrated virus can then influence, so it can perpetuate itself.

If you could answer the questions that I have posed above, it would be more useful than ranting on endlessly about the details of what you believe to be viruses.

[Bored chemist]

If you could answer the questions that I have posed above, it would be more useful than ranting on endlessly about the details of what you believe to be viruses.

Someone did answer.

"(a) When doctors talk about the "H1N1" flu virus, the "H" part describes the version of the Hemagglutinin protein, which attaches to cell walls in the nose throat and lungs. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#Structure.2C_properties.2C_and_subtype_nomenclature
(b) The flu virus is sucked into the cell by the cell itself engulfing the protein. Some bacteriophage viruses have a structure which resembles a hypodermic syringe, which injects the viral genes inside the cell wall."


You won't accept the evidence.
What can we do?
If you plan to sit there with your fingers in your ears saying "La la la I'm not listening" when we explain things how are we going to correct your error?

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

If you could answer the questions that I have posed above, it would be more useful than ranting on endlessly about the details of what you believe to be viruses.

Someone did answer.

"(a) When doctors talk about the "H1N1" flu virus, the "H" part describes the version of the Hemagglutinin protein, which attaches to cell walls in the nose throat and lungs. See:
(b) The flu virus is sucked into the cell by the cell itself engulfing the protein. Some bacteriophage viruses have a structure which resembles a hypodermic syringe, which injects the viral genes inside the cell wall."


You won't accept the evidence.
What can we do?
If you plan to sit there with your fingers in your ears saying "La la la I'm not listening" when we explain things how are we going to correct your error?

Many questions unanswered ref. post number 3. And yet, still not answered despite posting more information that YOU THINK is relevant.

1.The funny looking spider virus (bacteriophage) which has legs and a syringe type injection system - This (thing) is a physical impossibility because viruses are only single celled. To have functioning legs which contract requires the use of muscle tissue and complex joint structures which a single celled life form couldn't possibly have. The legs would need some kind of a nervous system to activate the muscles and a primative brain to send these messages. Thus, it is a totally illogical (thing) which has been manipulated into existence using Photoshop. The supporting electron microscope pictures do not match the obviously manipulated digital image. The electron microscope images (a) have small tails (really receptors) lol (b) The attaching fibres are long and curved/flexible structures and not the mechanical/rigid/thick stemmed as the digital diagram would suggest. Thus, it is an obvious fraud.

2. The pictures are obviously fungal in nature and have nothing to do with viruses. Note - None of the diagrams or pictures have any size or dimensional guidelines. If you visit Dr Stefan Lanka's website you will find that the images found in the viral textbooks are all out of context in regards to shape, size and type.

3. Note - Hormones have receptors, not viruses. There are 3 types of hormone which have 3 different receptors. Some stupid fools have mistaken viruses for hormones. lol!

Admin warning  - Sorry, I am not allowed to post external links. (because that would make it too easy for me to prove my point) lol

[evan_au]

How do they attack? They have no eyes, legs, arms, ears, nose or brain to think out a strategy.

Viruses are just like a floating mine, which have no strategy and do nothing until a ship bumps into them. Then they explode, and bring down the ship.

They are much more specific than a mine, as they only attack when they strike a cell having a matching receptor on its surface. It's like a lock-and-key mechanism.

Unlike a "dumb" mine, the virus contains instructions, which forces the cell to make a myriad of new virus particles, which explode out of the cell, and then float around until they, too, bump into another cell with the right receptor.

That sounds like an aggressive strategy, which operates on the molecular level, without requiring complex multicellular organs and appendages like a brain, arms or legs.
 

A bad diet clearly explains how and why people get sick.

(1) If you eat Arsenic, you will get sick.
(2) If you eat food contaminated by Norovirus, you will get sick.

Fact (1) does not falsify statement (2). This is a logical fallacy.
In fact, viruses are said to be resonsible for around 30% of foodborne illnesses.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foodborne_illness#Viruses

I am an expert in Photoshop, so I know how easy it is to create these computer generated images.

(a) I know how to fake images in Photoshop
(b) I see images of viruses
(c) All virus images must be faked

Statement (a) combined with statement (b) does not imply statement (c). This is a logical fallacy.

Part of the scientific process is peer review, which is intended to identify and weed out cases of accidental or intentional fraud.
However, viruses have been validated enough times, in enough different ways, by such a large number of individuals that they can now be confidently asserted as a fact. There is even a medical speciality of "virology" - Chris Smith, the original "Naked Scientist" is a virologist.
 

Viruses are supposed to be single celled - so how do you explain these long spaghetti viruses?  They appear to make a mockery of the single cell virus concept, in my humble opinion.

Certain multicellular algae form long, spaghetti-like filaments; I have seen some on the sea-shore that are perhaps 40mm (40,000um)  long, and seem to have the thickness of human hair (about 0.1mm=100um). But they are far larger than an Ebola virus.

Some single-cell organisms form long, spaghetti-like threads; the human sperm cell has a tail which is about 50um long, and about 1um thick. And this leaves out most of the machinery required for a living cell. But this is still far larger than an Ebola virus.

The Ebola virus is about 1um long, and 0.1um in diameter. It is clearly not a single cell, let alone a multicellular organism.

As you say, it is important to have a size scale on what you are looking at; otherwise you could confuse a hot-air balloon with a raindrop.

Why is it that no scientist has ever been able to reproduce, in a laboratory, the same virus from two different individuals who are infected with the same virus?

Scientists have gone one better than that, in the recent Ebola outbreak.

By using the latest diagnostic tools, they were able to sequence the genetic code from multiple individuals infected by Ebola. Epidemiologists were able to draw a "family tree" of the Ebola virus, and determine which humans infected which other humans.
Not only did they obtain the same kind of virus from many different individuals, they were able to identify patients (n-1) and (n+1).

If you have sufficient fibre in your diet your gut bacteria will protect you from getting sick. This is a known fact.

...and Bacteriophages are one of the factors keeping the bacteria from getting out of control.

To have functioning legs which contract requires the use of muscle tissue and complex joint structures  which a single celled life form couldn't possibly have.

If you saw a large creature like a caribou for the first time, you would (rightly) assume that it had a complex multicellular structure with muscles and complex joints.

If you saw a small creature like a bacteriphage for the first time (much smaller than a single cell), you would (rightly) assume that it did not have a complex multicellular structure with muscles and complex joints. 

You have made two correct deductions, and combined them to come to a false conclusion. This is a logical fallacy.

In fact, every carbon atom in a hydrocarbon forms a fully-functional rotating joint.
On a larger scale, many proteins/enzymes in our bodies have structural segments that form a backbone, and jointed sections that allow these structural segments to move relative to each other. These physical movements are triggered when a matching molecule fits the enzyme receptor.

Hormones have receptors, not viruses. There are 3 types of hormone which have 3 different receptors. Some stupid fools have mistaken viruses for hormones.

As mentioned above, many single molecules have receptor sites; many cells also have receptors on their surfaces which are triggered into action by events in their environment (eg finding the Hemagglutinin protein in their environment - only it is attached to a flu virus!).

...There are far more than 3 hormones, and far more than 3 receptors in the human body!

Thus, [a virus]  is a totally illogical creature

I fear it is your logic which is flawed.

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

Viruses are just like a floating mine, which have no strategy and do nothing until a ship bumps into them. Then they explode, and bring down the ship.

They are much more specific than a mine, as they only attack when they strike a cell having a matching receptor on its surface. It's like a lock-and-key mechanism.

Unlike a "dumb" mine, the virus contains instructions, which forces the cell to make a myriad of new virus particles, which explode out of the cell, and then float around until they, too, bump into another cell with the right receptor.

That sounds like an aggressive strategy, which operates on the molecular level, without requiring complex multicellular organs and appendages like a brain, arms or legs.

Ah ha, the old mine analogy. I didn't think you would stoop that low.

OK, I accept the challenge!

If a virus is like a mine then -

1. Where is the explosive device?

2. Where is the detonator?

3. What type of explosives are used in the explosion?

4. Do you have a picture of a viral explosion or are you just guessing that's what happens because you have been trapped in a corner and will grab any excuse that you can find to justify your outlandish claims?

A bad diet clearly explains how and why people get sick.

(1) If you eat Arsenic, you will get sick.
(2) If you eat food contaminated by Norovirus, you will get sick.

Fact (1) does not falsify statement (2). This is a logical fallacy.
In fact, viruses are said to be responsible for around 30% of foodborne illnesses.[/quote]


This website is full of out-dated advice and information. Modern gut theory based on 'leaky gut syndrome' is a far more updated version of what really happens when people get sick. As I am unable to present outside links I can't refer you directly to the leaky gut information website but I am sure you can find it. Thus, 98% of all disease is caused by grain, sugar, dairy and alcohol. The other 2% being caused by heavy metals, pesticides, fungicides, herbicides, halogens and other toxic chemicals. Germs CAUSE zero percent of all disease unless you eat somebody else's fecal material.

I am an expert in Photoshop, so I know how easy it is to create these computer generated images.

(a) I know how to fake images in Photoshop
(b) I see images of viruses
(c) All virus images must be faked

Statement (a) combined with statement (b) does not imply statement (c). This is a logical fallacy.

Part of the scientific process is peer review, which is intended to identify and weed out cases of accidental or intentional fraud.
However, viruses have been validated enough times, in enough different ways, by such a large number of individuals that they can now be confidently asserted as a fact. There is even a medical speciality of "virology" - Chris Smith, the original "Naked Scientist" is a virologist.[/quote]

1. If Chris Smith is a virologist, then, that explains why I can't use any outside links. (conspiracy to block real science and promote pseudo science as being real science)

2. Validation in science strictly follows the dollar signs. If there is no money to be made from a natural cure, then the medical system will kill it with disinformation.

3. I have provided a link to Dr Stefan Lanka which you have obviously ignored.


 

Viruses are supposed to be single celled - so how do you explain these long spaghetti viruses?  They appear to make a mockery of the single cell virus concept, in my humble opinion.

Certain multicellular algae form long, spaghetti-like filaments; I have seen some on the sea-shore that are perhaps 40mm (40,000um)  long, and seem to have the thickness of human hair (about 0.1mm=100um). But they are far larger than an Ebola virus.[/quote]

Algae are not viruses. The dictionary definition of a virus is very vague. This is because nobody has ever seen a virus. The dictionary doesn't describe if a virus has single or multiple cells. It just says that they have no cell walls -(which makes it a non-viable life form in my opinion.) Note - If you have no cell walls, then you can't be multi-celled! lol 
Thus, your spaghetti virus is just an illogical nonsense. It must be just a parasitic worm which has been manipulated to look virus like. Note - No size reference in pictures.

Some single-cell organisms form long, spaghetti-like threads; the human sperm cell has a tail which is about 50um long, and about 1um thick. And this leaves out most of the machinery required for a living cell. But this is still far larger than an Ebola virus.

So? What's the point here?

The Ebola virus is about 1um long, and 0.1um in diameter. It is clearly not a single cell, let alone a multicellular organism.

As you say, it is important to have a size scale on what you are looking at; otherwise you could confuse a hot-air balloon with a raindrop.

So don't sent me any pictures unless they contain -

1. Size.

2. Date.

3. The procedure used in getting picture.

4. The person responsible for creating picture.

Why is it that no scientist has ever been able to reproduce, in a laboratory, the same virus from two different individuals who are infected with the same virus?

Scientists have gone one better than that, in the recent Ebola outbreak.

By using the latest diagnostic tools, they were able to sequence the genetic code from multiple individuals infected by Ebola. Epidemiologists were able to draw a "family tree" of the Ebola virus, and determine which humans infected which other humans.
Not only did they obtain the same kind of virus from many different individuals, they were able to identify patients (n-1) and (n+1).[/quote]

You still haven't answered the question fully. Were they able to reproduce the virus in a laboratory from two separate individuals and get the same culture? Note - I already know that this has never been done. Thus, germ theory has never been ratified. (the 200 year old lie still lives on.)



..

To have functioning legs which contract requires the use of muscle tissue and complex joint structures  which a single celled life form couldn't possibly have.

If you saw a large creature like a caribou for the first time, you would (rightly) assume that it had a complex multicellular structure with muscles and complex joints.

If you saw a small creature like a bacteriphage for the first time (much smaller than a single cell), you would (rightly) assume that it did not have a complex multicellular structure with muscles and complex joints. 

You have made two correct deductions, and combined them to come to a false conclusion. This is a logical fallacy.

In fact, every carbon atom in a hydrocarbon forms a fully-functional rotating joint.
On a larger scale, many proteins/enzymes in our bodies have structural segments that form a backbone, and jointed sections that allow these structural segments to move relative to each other. These physical movements are triggered when a matching molecule fits the enzyme receptor.

How would you be able to differentiate a hormone entering a cell from a virus entering a cell?

Lastly - How was the first virus identified when there was no reference of what a virus looks like? Good luck!

Some reading material - The Rabbit Hole - Jon Rappoport  (google web search required)

Does HIV Exist? An interview with Eleni Papadopoulos-Eleopulos by Christine Johnson.

[Bored chemist]

You make the claim that diseases which in conventional  reality are caused by viruses are caused by other factors-
"So what causes disease then? The answer is that the modern diet is responsible. Sugar, grain, dairy and alcohol are all unnatural products which the human digestive system can't cope with and many people get sick because of this. That accounts for 98% of all disease."

Well, we have not eradicated those factors from the world. and , according to your bizarre notion that means we can't control any viral diseases.
But we have eradicated smallpox and nearly eradicated polio.
And we did that by vaccination- which only works because we identified the virus responsible.
So, your suggestion - diseases are not caused by viruses leads to a prediction- we will not remove diseases by removing viruses ( we would need to remove all the factors you listed earlier).

And yet we have removed a disease.
So you are unequivocally logically wrong. That's it; you can give up and  go home now. The job's over: you were wrong.

There's also the interesting question of how come people with HIV are living longer than they used to. The only change that's been made is that we now treat them with antiviral drugs.
But those drugs have very specific targets- typically the reverse transcriptase enzyme that is found in HIV.
How come targeting the virus controls the disease if the disease isn't caused by the virus?
While I'm at it.
"You still haven't answered the question fully. Were they able to reproduce the virus in a laboratory from two separate individuals and get the same culture? "
Yes we have answered that question; and the answer is yes. It was done with the ebola outbreak recently.
Will it help if we tell you that a third time?
"How would you be able to differentiate a hormone entering a cell from a virus entering a cell? "
Well, a few things; The first is  that we know what hormones are and they are, among other things single chemical molecules- we know their molecular structures- they are much smaller than viruses and they are endogenous rather then infectious.
"Lastly - How was the first virus identified when there was no reference of what a virus looks like? Good luck!"
Well, obviously- not by sight.
They were originally identified because they were small. Scientists knew how to make filters that would reliably remove bacteria but they found that there were some infectious agents that were much smaller- they would go through a filter that would strain out bacteria- so- whatever these agents were, they were not bacteria (far less were they fungi which are generally even bigger- so you can ditch that idea).

Did you think you had some sort of "killer argument" there? Is that why you wished us good luck?

[Bored chemist]

Admin warning  - Sorry, I am not allowed to post external links. (because that would make it too easy for me to prove my point) lol

That's what's technically referred to as a lie.
You are, of course, allowed to post links.
Fore example, I can post a link to this wiki page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discredited_HIV/AIDS_origins_theories
You might want to read it.

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

Well, we have not eradicated those factors from the world. and , according to your bizarre notion that means we can't control any viral diseases.
But we have eradicated smallpox and nearly eradicated polio.
And we did that by vaccination- which only works because we identified the virus responsible.
So, your suggestion - diseases are not caused by viruses leads to a prediction- we will not remove diseases by removing viruses ( we would need to remove all the factors you listed earlier).

In the early days they didn't have microscopes. Thus, they just called it "small pox" without knowing that small pox might have been a small virus. The process of vaccination is just an old wives tale made scientific by an uneducated moron by the name of Edward Jenner. The concept of mixing animal blood with human blood goes back thousands of years. It was believed that the strength or spirit of the animal could be transferred to humans by mixing the blood. This is just an ancient superstition which has been revived by money making governments and pharmaceutical companies. The concept of disease is used by governments as a border control device to prevent cross border travel without checking place of origin. (passport). But, alas, there are no contagious diseases, it is just a 200 year old scam. The Vaccination Liberation website has plenty of graphs which show that polio out-breaks occurred only after the invention of pesticides. Thus, all neurological diseases are caused by halogen poisoning. That's chlorine, bromine and fluorine. The human immune system (hormone system) is iodine based and can be disrupted by halogens which mimic iodine. Thus, Polio, Ebola and Zika viruses are all pesticide related problems. Small pox is a volcano related problem. When large volcanoes erupt they spew out poisonous gases and dust which can destroy crops and kill lives stock. This leads to massive starvation on a global scale. This occurs every so often throughout history. We have been lucky in the last 200 years because there hasn't been any large scale volcanic activity.

And yet we have removed a disease.
So you are unequivocally logically wrong. That's it; you can give up and  go home now. The job's over: you were wrong.

Note - Scarlet fever was never vaccinated against, yet it disappeared by itself without vaccination. Why? Answer - Because there is only one disease which is called VITAMIN DEFICIENCY! That's why!

There's also the interesting question of how come people with HIV are living longer than they used to. The only change that's been made is that we now treat them with antiviral drugs.
But those drugs have very specific targets- typically the reverse transcriptase enzyme that is found in HIV.
How come targeting the virus controls the disease if the disease isn't caused by the virus?

The only reason HIV people are living longer is because they stopped eating bad diets, having late nights, drugs and alcohol. Any medication would be totally useless because there are no viruses.

While I'm at it.
"You still haven't answered the question fully. Were they able to reproduce the virus in a laboratory from two separate individuals and get the same culture? "
Yes we have answered that question; and the answer is yes. It was done with the ebola outbreak recently.
Will it help if we tell you that a third time?

If it has been done, then give the details (procedure used) of the scientific paper and date. etc.

"How would you be able to differentiate a hormone entering a cell from a virus entering a cell? "
Well, a few things; The first is  that we know what hormones are and they are, among other things single chemical molecules- we know their molecular structures- they are much smaller than viruses and they are endogenous rather then infectious.

How do you know that viruses are not endogenous as well?

"Lastly - How was the first virus identified when there was no reference of what a virus looks like? Good luck!"
Well, obviously- not by sight.
They were originally identified because they were small. Scientists knew how to make filters that would reliably remove bacteria but they found that there were some infectious agents that were much smaller- they would go through a filter that would strain out bacteria- so- whatever these agents were, they were not bacteria (far less were they fungi which are generally even bigger- so you can ditch that idea).

Oh, so they didn't SEE THEM! they just guessed them into existence. I thought so! lol

Quote from - The Rabbit Hole by Jon Rappoport.

This is one of the many problems. Montagnier and Gallo did use density gradient banding, but for some unknown reason THEY DID NOT PUBLISH ANY EMS [electron microscope photos] of the material at 1.16 gm/ml…this is quite puzzling because in 1973 the Pasteur Institute hosted a meeting attended by scientists, some of whom are now amongst the leading HIV experts. At that meeting the method of retroviral isolation was thoroughly discussed, and photographing the 1.16 band of the density gradient was considered absolutely essential.

lol! They didn't SEE any either! lol! What a joke the medical system is! lol!

[Bored chemist]

OK, let's just see how wrong you are today.
"In the early days they didn't have microscopes. "
True - but irrelevant.
"Thus, they just called it "small pox" without knowing that small pox might have been a small virus. "
Ditto- but it was called "small" pox to distinguish it from "The great pox" i.e syphilis. They didn't know what caused it. Nobody said they did.

"The process of vaccination is just an old wives tale "
Plainly wrong- if it was true we couldn't have wiped out smallpox and knocked back lots of other diseases.

"made scientific by an uneducated moron by the name of Edward Jenner. "
Again- plainly wrong.
He was clearly educated- he was a doctor- and he was equally clearly not a moron (for the same reason).

"The concept of mixing animal blood with human blood goes back thousands of years. It was believed that the strength or spirit of the animal could be transferred to humans by mixing the blood. "
True- but nothing to do with modern medical science.

"But, alas, there are no contagious diseases, it is just a 200 year old scam."
Yes there are and they have been documented for well over 200 years.
for example
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Plague_of_London

So, again, you are plainly wrong.

"...which has been revived by money making governments and pharmaceutical companies. "
No.
For example, Salk- who invented the Polio vaccine never patented it.
Also they are not reviving "animalism" they are using an entirely different  idea- that of viral infection.
Nobody goes to their doctor and gets told "this is monkey blood- the spirit of the monkey will protect you from the 'flu".
They get semisynthetic proteind derived from viruses. and that's what they get told.
So, once again, you are plainly wrong.

"The concept of disease is used by governments as a border control device to prevent cross border travel without checking place of origin. (passport). "

Wrong and irrational.
They do check passports- they don't check for viral diseases.
So, again, plainly wrong.

"The Vaccination Liberation website has plenty of graphs which show that polio out-breaks occurred only after the invention of pesticides. "

They must be very poorly educated (or just plain dishonest).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis#History
 the abncient Egyptians were aware of polio- but didn't use any meaningful pesticides.
So, again, plainly wrong.

"Thus, all neurological diseases are caused by halogen poisoning. That's chlorine, bromine and fluorine."
Very few people are exposed to fluorine- essentially it's only used in labs.
The human body needs chloride- salt- to function. Its vital role has been known since (at least) the days of ancient Rome so, once again
Plainly wrong.
(Incidentally we know of neurological diseases that are caused by pother things- manganese toxicity for example)

"The human immune system (hormone system) is iodine based and can be disrupted by halogens which mimic iodine. "

The immune system and hormonal system are not the same thing- so that's plainly wrong.
Only one  small group of hormones relies on iodine and it is perfectly able to select iodide, even in the presence of fluoride, bromide and chloride.
Bromide is toxic but its effect is due to disruption of chloride  .
So, once again you are plainly wrong.

"Thus, Polio, Ebola and Zika viruses are all pesticide related problems."
Non seq and thus plainly wrong. (also see the comment about the Egyptians)

"Small pox is a volcano related problem."
Nope. It was common in the UK and we don't have volcanoes.
Plainly wrong.

"When large volcanoes erupt they spew out poisonous gases and dust which can destroy crops and kill lives stock. This leads to massive starvation on a global scale. This occurs every so often throughout history. We have been lucky in the last 200 years because there hasn't been any large scale volcanic activity."
Plainly wrong (do you not watch the news?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_St._Helens
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_eruptions_of_Eyjafjallaj%C3%B6kull

"Scarlet fever was never vaccinated against, yet it disappeared by itself without vaccination. Why? Answer - Because there is only one disease which is called VITAMIN DEFICIENCY! That's why! "
Plainly wrong (and irrelevant since it's not a virus)
The right answer is penicillin.

"The only reason HIV people are living longer is because they stopped eating bad diets, having late nights, drugs and alcohol."
Many people with HIV are babies and young children, so that idea is plainly wrong (and deeply offensive). It also suggests that your motivation for peddling this nonsense is bigotry on your part.

"
If it has been done, then give the details (procedure used) of the scientific paper and date. etc."
Sure; among others.
http://embomolmed.embopress.org/content/early/2014/12/29/emmm.201404792#abstract-1
et seq.
Your assertion that it wasn't done is  plainly wrong.

"How do you know that viruses are not endogenous as well? "
Because they couldn't be infections if they were.

"Oh, so they didn't SEE THEM! they just guessed them into existence. I thought so! lol"
Yes and...?
Those sorts of guesses are called hypotheses; once they get tested and found to make accurate predictions they become established science.
In thinking that's grounds for laughter you are plainly wrong.


Why do you think it matters that something, done many times since, was not done in 1973?
Are you aware that electron microscopes were a bit rare back then?
If you think it matters then again you are plainly wrong.

So, in summary you are wrong on anything that might be relevant.

Why are you bothering to post your absurd bigotry, conceit and, above all, ignorance?
It's not as if it makes you look clever.

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

OK, let's just see how wrong you are today.
"In the early days they didn't have microscopes. "
True - but irrelevant.

Wrong - Relevant.

"The process of vaccination is just an old wives tale "
Plainly wrong- if it was true we couldn't have wiped out smallpox and knocked back lots of other diseases.

Refer to - Weston A. Price Foundation - Pesticides and Polio : A critique of scientific literature. (For rebuttal.)

"made scientific by an uneducated moron by the name of Edward Jenner. "
Again- plainly wrong.
He was clearly educated- he was a doctor- and he was equally clearly not a moron (for the same reason).

They had no medical schools in those days. Becoming a doctor was similar to becoming a butcher or a carpenter. It was an apprenticeship system.

"The concept of mixing animal blood with human blood goes back thousands of years. It was believed that the strength or spirit of the animal could be transferred to humans by mixing the blood. "
True- but nothing to do with modern medical science.

There is absolutely no difference. Modern vaccination still uses animal tissue as the medium for all vaccinations.

"But, alas, there are no contagious diseases, it is just a 200 year old scam."
Yes there are and they have been documented for well over 200 years.
for example

So, again, you are plainly wrong.

Again, I am plainly right - refer to - The Guardian - Mass grave in London reveals how volcano caused global catastrophe.

"...which has been revived by money making governments and pharmaceutical companies. "
No.
For example, Salk- who invented the Polio vaccine never patented it.

Vactruth website - 5.7 billion given to vaccine manufacturers in 2011 by US government. More lies! No money in vaccination? Get a life mate!

Also they are not reviving "animalism" they are using an entirely different  idea- that of viral infection.
Nobody goes to their doctor and gets told "this is monkey blood- the spirit of the monkey will protect you from the 'flu".
They get semisynthetic proteind derived from viruses. and that's what they get told.
So, once again, you are plainly wrong.

More bull-crap! When I was vaccinated I was told nothing! Vaccination is a very secretive and insidious operation of deception. Semisynthetic proteind is just jargon for animal protein which has been infused with dangerous chemicals as a preservative. The only difference is that the protein may have been fermented in a vat from an original animal protein base. (More deception.)

"The concept of disease is used by governments as a border control device to prevent cross border travel without checking place of origin. (passport). "

Wrong and irrational.
They do check passports- they don't check for viral diseases.
So, again, plainly wrong.

Next time you go to an airport, tell them that you have Ebloa virus, and see if they let you on the plane. lol! What are quarantine stations for? Decorations? lol!

"The Vaccination Liberation website has plenty of graphs which show that polio out-breaks occurred only after the invention of pesticides. "

They must be very poorly educated (or just plain dishonest).

 the ancient Egyptians were aware of polio- but didn't use any meaningful pesticides.
So, again, plainly wrong.

If you see one Egyptian lithograph with a person with a withered leg doesn't equate with polio. This is definitely a very unscientific methodology that you are using. You must be getting very desperate to prove your point if you are willing to stoop so low. There are a number of other far more likely causes. 1. upper class inbreeding 2. Using lead oxides and mercury oxides as make-up. 3. Just plain unlucky - born that way.

Very few people are exposed to fluorine- essentially it's only used in labs.
The human body needs chloride- salt- to function. Its vital role has been known since (at least) the days of ancient Rome so, once again
Plainly wrong.

Plainly wrong. They put fluorine in the drinking water! 30 - 40 % of all drug and agricultural products contain fluorine or fluoride. 20 % of pharmaceutical products contain fluorine and fluoride.

"The human immune system (hormone system) is iodine based and can be disrupted by halogens which mimic iodine. "

The immune system and hormonal system are not the same thing- so that's plainly wrong.
Only one  small group of hormones relies on iodine and it is perfectly able to select iodide, even in the presence of fluoride, bromide and chloride.
Bromide is toxic but its effect is due to disruption of chloride  .
So, once again you are plainly wrong.

Plainly wrong again. refer to PubMed - The relationship between the immune and endocrine systems.

Refer to EWG website - Fire retardants
What do breast milk and polar bears have in common? In 1999, some Swedish scientists studying women’s breast milk discovered something totally unexpected: The milk contained an endocrine-disrupting chemical found in fire retardants, and the levels had been doubling every five years since 1972! These incredibly persistent chemicals, known as polybrominated diphenyl ethers or PBDEs, have since been found to contaminate the bodies of people and wildlife around the globe – even polar bears. These chemicals can imitate thyroid hormones in our bodies and disrupt their activity. That can lead to lower IQ, among other significant health effects. While several kinds of PBDEs have now been phased out, this doesn’t mean that toxic fire retardants have gone away. PBDEs are incredibly persistent, so they’re going to be contaminating people and wildlife for decades to come.

"Small pox is a volcano related problem."
Nope. It was common in the UK and we don't have volcanoes.
Plainly wrong.

Plainly wrong - Very large volcanoes can effect the whole globe.

"When large volcanoes erupt they spew out poisonous gases and dust which can destroy crops and kill lives stock. This leads to massive starvation on a global scale. This occurs every so often throughout history. We have been lucky in the last 200 years because there hasn't been any large scale volcanic activity."
Plainly wrong (do you not watch the news?)

These are relatively small volcanoes. We haven't had a really big one for some time.

"Scarlet fever was never vaccinated against, yet it disappeared by itself without vaccination. Why? Answer - Because there is only one disease which is called VITAMIN DEFICIENCY! That's why! "
Plainly wrong (and irrelevant since it's not a virus)
The right answer is penicillin.

It is well known that anti-biotics cause more problems than they solve. Killing all the gut bacteria can cause a person to die from starvation because they have no good bacteria to digest their food.

"The only reason HIV people are living longer is because they stopped eating bad diets, having late nights, drugs and alcohol."
Many people with HIV are babies and young children, so that idea is plainly wrong (and deeply offensive). It also suggests that your motivation for peddling this nonsense is bigotry on your part.

Refer to Whale.com  - In Japan "AIDS" is virtually unknown : yet, in random tests, 25% of people
were found to be "HIV-positive".

Thus, the testing is faulty for a start. If a baby has HIV it is probably malnutrition from a drug taking mother. Deeply offensive all right! Using political correctness as a weapon is always offensive! lol

"How do you know that viruses are not endogenous as well? "
Because they couldn't be infections if they were.

A circular argument. More nonsense. No evidence!

"Oh, so they didn't SEE THEM! they just guessed them into existence. I thought so! lol"
Yes and...?
Those sorts of guesses are called hypotheses; once they get tested and found to make accurate predictions they become established science.
In thinking that's grounds for laughter you are plainly wrong.

Your are right! They are established guesses! lol! Let's face it, nobody has ever seen a virus because they simply don't exist!

The medical establishment needs viruses to make a living out of public ignorance on the nature and causes of disease.

[Bored chemist]

We both know that you are wrong on practically every single point of that.
Starting with the fact that you don't need to see microorganisms to know that they exist- you can deduce their existence from their actions. and ending with " nobody has ever seen a virus because they simply don't exist!"
(here's a picture of some in a bottle)
http://centennial.rucares.org/index.php?page=protein_nucleic_acid


Why do you insist on ignoring reality?
BTW, there's a measles outbreak at the moment. It's not caused by any sudden change in people's food or habits. It's caused because deluded people like you disrupted vaccination programs.

People like you are responsible for deaths and illness.
Why not stop being so destructive?

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

We both know that you are wrong on practically every single point of that.
Starting with the fact that you don't need to see microorganisms to know that they exist- you can deduce their existence from their actions. and ending with " nobody has ever seen a virus because they simply don't exist!"
(here's a picture of some in a bottle)
http://centennial.rucares.org/index.php?page=protein_nucleic_acid


Why do you insist on ignoring reality?
BTW, there's a measles outbreak at the moment. It's not caused by any sudden change in people's food or habits. It's caused because deluded people like you disrupted vaccination programs.

People like you are responsible for deaths and illness.
Why not stop being so destructive?

1. There is only one disease which is vitamin deficiency. Thus, the recent measles outbreaks are just vitamin deficiency outbreaks. This can be proven by seeing where these outbreaks occur. Usually occurring in places where diets are poor. Detention centres and low socio-economic neighbourhoods are the most common places.

2. Measles is fatal in only .2% of cases. Why? Because it is not a virus - that's why!

3. "People who are unvaccinated are carriers of measles". Illogical nonsense! A vaccinated person will carry said 'disease' just as easily as an unvaccinated person. There is no scientific evidence to prove that an vaccinated person is not a carrier of a disease. More false assumptions.

4. Measles is a respiratory problem. Thus, the cause will be dairy products which cause and excessive mucus reaction from the body's immune system. Dairy products are unnatural for humans and results in many lung related flu like symptoms. Thus, to stop all flu and measles type diseases it would be more effective to stop selling milk to uninformed people who think that milk is healthy. I was obliged to drink milk at school as the government supplied free milk to all schools when I was young. But for some reason I never drank the milk because I must have some kind of premonition that something was wrong here. Later, 30 years later, I found out that I was right. Milk is a poisonous substance that will block all your arteries and make you sick.

5. I see that you have come to the end of your short tether. You haven't replied to 90% of my previous statements which means that you have no rebuttal to my evidence. Therefore, I must conclude that you have conceded on this issue and that vitamins will protect against all disease and that there are no viruses.

[evan_au]

nobody has ever seen a virus

The discovery of "Mad Cow Disease" caused a fair amount of disbelief at the time - an infectious agent that has no genetic material!?

On the other hand, as a disease caught from eating infected cow brains, you presumably would be quite happy with it as a disease caused by poor diet?

Even though prions are too small to see?
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prion