[Atkhenaken (OP)]

nobody has ever seen a virus

The discovery of "Mad Cow Disease" caused a fair amount of disbelief at the time - an infectious agent that has no genetic material!?

On the other hand, as a disease caught from eating infected cow brains, you presumably would be quite happy with it as a disease caused by poor diet?

Even though prions are too small to see?
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prion

Prions are even less likely to exist than what viruses are. There are no prions! It is just another scam of the pharmaceutical industry to cover up the fact that organophosphates cause spongiform encephalopathy. Visit Mark Purdey's website to see the full story and facts about BSE.

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/madcow/madcow.htm

[jeffreyH]

nobody has ever seen a virus

The discovery of "Mad Cow Disease" caused a fair amount of disbelief at the time - an infectious agent that has no genetic material!?

On the other hand, as a disease caught from eating infected cow brains, you presumably would be quite happy with it as a disease caused by poor diet?

Even though prions are too small to see?
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prion

Prions are even less likely to exist than what viruses are. There are no prions! It is just another scam of the pharmaceutical industry to cover up the fact that organophosphates cause spongiform encephalopathy. Visit Mark Purdey's website to see the full story and facts about BSE.

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/madcow/madcow.htm

Rydych yn ymddangos i fod yn dipyn o denier . Yr wyf yn rhyfeddu ac yn awyddus i ddeall pam .

[Bored chemist]

1. There is only one disease which is vitamin deficiency. Thus, the recent measles outbreaks are just vitamin deficiency outbreaks. This can be proven by seeing where these outbreaks occur. Usually occurring in places where diets are poor. Detention centres and low socio-economic neighbourhoods are the most common places.

2. Measles is fatal in only .2% of cases. Why? Because it is not a virus - that's why!

3. "People who are unvaccinated are carriers of measles". Illogical nonsense! A vaccinated person will carry said 'disease' just as easily as an unvaccinated person. There is no scientific evidence to prove that an vaccinated person is not a carrier of a disease. More false assumptions.

4. Measles is a respiratory problem. Thus, the cause will be dairy products which cause and excessive mucus reaction from the body's immune system. Dairy products are unnatural for humans and results in many lung related flu like symptoms. Thus, to stop all flu and measles type diseases it would be more effective to stop selling milk to uninformed people who think that milk is healthy. I was obliged to drink milk at school as the government supplied free milk to all schools when I was young. But for some reason I never drank the milk because I must have some kind of premonition that something was wrong here. Later, 30 years later, I found out that I was right. Milk is a poisonous substance that will block all your arteries and make you sick.

5. I see that you have come to the end of your short tether. You haven't replied to 90% of my previous statements which means that you have no rebuttal to my evidence. Therefore, I must conclude that you have conceded on this issue and that vitamins will protect against all disease and that there are no viruses.

Why are you telling these lies?
Do you want to spread illness and disease?
Perhaps it would be better if you went and learned something about science before you posted anything more  in this forum.

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

1. There is only one disease which is vitamin deficiency. Thus, the recent measles outbreaks are just vitamin deficiency outbreaks. This can be proven by seeing where these outbreaks occur. Usually occurring in places where diets are poor. Detention centres and low socio-economic neighbourhoods are the most common places.

2. Measles is fatal in only .2% of cases. Why? Because it is not a virus - that's why!

3. "People who are unvaccinated are carriers of measles". Illogical nonsense! A vaccinated person will carry said 'disease' just as easily as an unvaccinated person. There is no scientific evidence to prove that an vaccinated person is not a carrier of a disease. More false assumptions.

4. Measles is a respiratory problem. Thus, the cause will be dairy products which cause and excessive mucus reaction from the body's immune system. Dairy products are unnatural for humans and results in many lung related flu like symptoms. Thus, to stop all flu and measles type diseases it would be more effective to stop selling milk to uninformed people who think that milk is healthy. I was obliged to drink milk at school as the government supplied free milk to all schools when I was young. But for some reason I never drank the milk because I must have some kind of premonition that something was wrong here. Later, 30 years later, I found out that I was right. Milk is a poisonous substance that will block all your arteries and make you sick.

5. I see that you have come to the end of your short tether. You haven't replied to 90% of my previous statements which means that you have no rebuttal to my evidence. Therefore, I must conclude that you have conceded on this issue and that vitamins will protect against all disease and that there are no viruses.

Why are you telling these lies?
Do you want to spread illness and disease?
Perhaps it would be better if you went and learned something about science before you posted anything more  in this forum.

Do you want to protect the two hundred year old lie so that you have a nice secure job creating organophosphates that will cause more death and brain disease?

Chemists are responsible for-

1. Supporting and financing Adolf Hitler (I G Farben)

2. Murder of millions with halogen chemicals. (pesticides, fungicides and herbicides)

3. Fluoridation of water supply leading to deceased immune system efficiency and creating heart rhythm problems.

4. Creation of drug industry leading to millions of deaths due to drug overdoses.

Do you have no sense of shame?

And having the hide to blame it all on non-existent and invisible bugs!

Shame, shame shame!

http://ahealedplanet.net/medicine.htm

[chiralSPO]

chemists are also responsible for:

-all the drugs that treat heart disease, allow cancer patients to survive, prevent seizures, increased life expectancy by 50% since 1900 (and allows old men to have sex)

-all the materials that your computer are made of

-most of the food that you eat (fertilizers, pesticides and preservatives--sure people love to hate these things, but they also like to have fresh strawberries in February and beef for less than $20/lb)

-most of the dyes and a significant proportion of the textiles used to make clothes

-solar panels, LEDs, touch screens, lasers, and pretty much any technology developed in the last 200 years has been enabled by chemical research

So, yes, chemists and chemicals have done terrible things, but essentially all of the wonders and luxuries of the 21st century were also made possible by chemists.

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

chemists are also responsible for:

-all the drugs that treat heart disease, allow cancer patients to survive, prevent seizures, increased life expectancy by 50% since 1900 (and allows old men to have sex)

You forget that most of these problems are caused by modern technology. Heart attack, stroke and cancer are all caused by dairy, grain, alcohol and sugar which are products of the modern age of agriculture. People who live in primitive and remote villages in the jungle don't get any of these problems. Note - It was the agricultural revolution and city life that reduced life expectancy from 75 to 35 during the middle ages. We are only just recovering from the life expectancy depression that was commenced at the beginning of the agricultural revolution 10,000 years ago. Thus, grain, dairy and sugar are not suitable for humans and leads to 98% of all diseases.

Most of the food that you eat (fertilizers, pesticides and preservatives--sure people love to hate these things, but they also like to have fresh strawberries in February and beef for less than $20/lb)

Well, if you get contaminated with fertilizers, pesticides and preservatives, then don't expect to live very long! Personally, I try to avoid these chemicals as much as I can.

solar panels, LEDs, touch screens, lasers, and pretty much any technology developed in the last 200 years has been enabled by chemical research

So, yes, chemists and chemicals have done terrible things, but essentially all of the wonders and luxuries of the 21st century were also made possible by chemists.

If you just do away with grain, sugar and dairy products, then, you wouldn't need as many hospitals, aged care facilities and prisons. Note: And every person on Earth would be 20% wealthier as a result.*

[chiralSPO]

I won't deny that there are problems caused by modern technologies, but I don't think that your assessment is very accurate. More people die today of heart attack, cancer, and stroke because these are problems that typically kill old (>55 years) people. 300 years ago, most people never got that old because they died of something else first (like starvation, disease, or injury -- which, for the most part, are no longer fatal because of our technology.)

If you are so certain that "chemicals" and "processed foods" are the root of all disease, perhaps you should visit some of the isolated communities in South America, Central Africa, India, and Southeast Asia, and take note of the state of their health...

[Bored chemist]

"You forget that most of these problems are caused by modern technology. Heart attack, stroke and cancer are all caused by dairy, grain, alcohol and sugar which are products of the modern age of agriculture. People who live in primitive and remote villages in the jungle don't get any of these problems."

Guess again.

[Bored chemist]

That idea has been dead for a long time.

[evan_au]

The discovery of "Mad Cow Disease" caused a fair amount of disbelief at the time - an infectious agent that has no genetic material!?

Prions are even less likely to exist than what viruses are.

Some recent research had a ship visiting oceans around the world, searching for genetic material in seawater. They weren't looking for viruses, they just wanted to sample any genetic material present in the water.

The results astonished them - there is an amazing amount of DNA floating around in seawater - and when they investigated, they found that much of it was in bacteriophage viruses.

These researchers were originally not trying to see anything - they were just looking for DNA with sensitive modern genetic techniques. And having found some DNA, it is relatively easy to consult databases and find what type of DNA it comes from.

Megavirus is another virus discovered in seawater.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megavirus#Discovery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_bacteriophage#Marine_phages

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

If you are so certain that "chemicals" and "processed foods" are the root of all disease, perhaps you should visit some of the isolated communities in South America, Central Africa, India, and Southeast Asia, and take note of the state of their health...

The world is overpopulated because of technology and agriculture. People are forced to live in more and more remote places which don't fully support a healthy life. Their usual food sources are depleted and this creates starvation and disease.

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

The discovery of "Mad Cow Disease" caused a fair amount of disbelief at the time - an infectious agent that has no genetic material!?

Prions are even less likely to exist than what viruses are.

Some recent research had a ship visiting oceans around the world, searching for genetic material in seawater. They weren't looking for viruses, they just wanted to sample any genetic material present in the water.

The results astonished them - there is an amazing amount of DNA floating around in seawater - and when they investigated, they found that much of it was in bacteriophage viruses.

These researchers were originally not trying to see anything - they were just looking for DNA with sensitive modern genetic techniques. And having found some DNA, it is relatively easy to consult databases and find what type of DNA it comes from.

Megavirus is another virus discovered in seawater.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megavirus#Discovery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_bacteriophage#Marine_phages

Not very convincing. Viruses found INSIDE bacteria. Why didn't they find them OUTSIDE the bacteria? Probably because they don't exist outside the bacteria and are just dead parts of the bacteria in the first place. More nonsense to justify a group of nincompoop scientists to spend countless years holidaying in exotic places pretending to find non-existent viruses. My opinion - A waste of money and time.

[evan_au]

(1) If you eat Arsenic, you will get sick.
(2) If you eat food contaminated by Norovirus, you will get sick.

If you give a mouse a dose of Arsenic, you can see that it gets sick.
If you now take a microscopic sample from the sick mouse, and give it to a healthy mouse, the second mouse displays no symptoms (or very mild symptoms). That is because the Arsenic is a poison, which does not multiply itself.

If you give a mouse a dose of moue Norovirus, you can see that it gets sick.
If you now take a microscopic sample from the sick mouse, and give it to a healthy mouse, the second mouse also gets sick. That is because the Norovirus multiplies itself in the host to become the full-blown disease.

The ability to infect others is one of the hallmarks of a disease.

These days, our most sensitive tests are DNA sequencing, and so Koch's original postulates have been reformulated in terms of DNA detection. And viral DNA is a sign of a virus.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch%27s_postulates#Koch.E2.80.99s_postulates_for_the_21st_century

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

(1) If you eat Arsenic, you will get sick.
(2) If you eat food contaminated by Norovirus, you will get sick.

If you give a mouse a dose of Arsenic, you can see that it gets sick.
If you now take a microscopic sample from the sick mouse, and give it to a healthy mouse, the second mouse displays no symptoms (or very mild symptoms). That is because the Arsenic is a poison, which does not multiply itself.

If you give a mouse a dose of moue Norovirus, you can see that it gets sick.
If you now take a microscopic sample from the sick mouse, and give it to a healthy mouse, the second mouse also gets sick. That is because the Norovirus multiplies itself in the host to become the full-blown disease.



The ability to infect others is one of the hallmarks of a disease.

These days, our most sensitive tests are DNA sequencing, and so Koch's original postulates have been reformulated in terms of DNA detection. And viral DNA is a sign of a virus.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch%27s_postulates#Koch.E2.80.99s_postulates_for_the_21st_century

Koch's postulates -

1. The microorganism must be found in abundance in all organisms suffering from the disease, but should not be found in healthy organisms.
2. The microorganism must be isolated from a diseased organism and grown in pure culture.
3. The cultured microorganism should cause disease when introduced into a healthy organism.
4. The microorganism must be reisolated from the inoculated, diseased experimental host and identified as being identical to the original specific causative agent.

Research so far ...........

1. Never found in abundance in organism suffering from disease.
2. Microorganisms have never been successfully isolated and grown in a pure culture.
3. Doesn't always cause disease in a healthy organism.
4. Never has been re-isolated from the inoculated and identified from the original host.

Thus, germ theory is a fraud.


http://neue-medizin.com/lanka2.htm
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00705-013-1806-4

[Bored chemist]

Do you want to protect the two hundred year old lie so that you have a nice secure job creating organophosphates that will cause more death and brain disease?

Chemists are responsible for-

1. Supporting and financing Adolf Hitler (I G Farben)

2. Murder of millions with halogen chemicals. (pesticides, fungicides and herbicides)

3. Fluoridation of water supply leading to deceased immune system efficiency and creating heart rhythm problems.

4. Creation of drug industry leading to millions of deaths due to drug overdoses.

Do you have no sense of shame?

And having the hide to blame it all on non-existent and invisible bugs!

Shame, shame shame!

http://ahealedplanet.net/medicine.htm

1 It took more than funding to get Hitler into power. You also seem not to understand that there were chemists on both sides- and neither group was responsible for starting a war.
2 Why are you worried about the pests murdered by pesticides?
3 Fluorides don't do that and the process is under the control of the medical profession- not the chemists.
4 Drugs have been around a lot=longer than chemists. The drugs that chemists have created save lives (or the patients wouldn't have access to them because they would fail the tests)


So what would I have to be ashamed of?
I sent you a picture of the bugs- they are not invisible when you get enough of them..

Perhaps you could explain the outcome of a plaque assay without resorting to a virus  as an explanation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_quantification

Or perhaps you should go away and learn some science. Maybe then you wouldn't post gibberish like the 4 "points" you raised earlier.

[Bored chemist]

Koch's postulates -

1. The microorganism must be found in abundance in all organisms suffering from the disease, but should not be found in healthy organisms.
2. The microorganism must be isolated from a diseased organism and grown in pure culture.
3. The cultured microorganism should cause disease when introduced into a healthy organism.
4. The microorganism must be reisolated from the inoculated, diseased experimental host and identified as being identical to the original specific causative agent.

Research so far ...........

1. Never found in abundance in organism suffering from disease.
2. Microorganisms have never been successfully isolated and grown in a pure culture.
3. Doesn't always cause disease in a healthy organism.
4. Never has been re-isolated from the inoculated and identified from the original host.

Thus, germ theory is a fraud.

So, you think that the fact that things have moved on since 1890 is a bad thing.

Your view is like saying that sex doesn't cause babies because sometimes it doesn't and (allegedly, at least once) there was a baby without  the parents having sex.

It's more complicated than that. We have realised that since Koch's day- and we have updated the postulates.

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

http://ahealedplanet.net/medicine.htm

1 It took more than funding to get Hitler into power. You also seem not to understand that there were chemists on both sides- and neither group was responsible for starting a war.

The support of I G Farben was the single most important factor in Hitler's rise to power. Note- The I G Farben building was never bombed during World War II and was used as a base by the Allies during their occupation. Reason - The Rockefeller's had a huge investment in I G Farben and they wanted to create a huge profit from causing a war so they could sell lots of drugs and chemicals.

http://beforeitsnews.com/war-and-conflict/2013/05/ig-farben-bayer-sopnsered-adolph-hitler-raign-and-was-the-biggest-profiteers-of-wwii-2446840.html

2 Why are you worried about the pests murdered by pesticides?

Sloppy thinking. Polio, Zika and BSE are all pesticide related problems.

http://www.naturalnews.com/054463_pesticides_diseases_infertility.html

4 Drugs have been around a lot=longer than chemists. The drugs that chemists have created save lives (or the patients wouldn't have access to them because they would fail the tests)

That's how the medical system works. First you make people sick and them you make them better. (for a sort period or until they get sick again)

So what would I have to be ashamed of?
I sent you a picture of the bugs- they are not invisible when you get enough of them..

You sent me a picture of a glass bottle with water in it. That's your evidence? lol! Pathetic!

Perhaps you could explain the outcome of a plaque assay without resorting to a virus  as an explanation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_quantification

The plague assay is a fraudulent procedure. A virus needs a cell to multiply according to viral theory.

Steps in creating a petri dish medium -

1. Aspirate media and wash cells with 0.1M cacodylate buffer.

2. Fix with 4% PFA, 1% glutaraldehyde in 0.1M cacodylate for 1 h at room temp.

3. Wash cells 3x in 0.1M cacodylate.

4. Second fix in 1% osmium tetroxide in 0.1M cacodylate for 1 h at room temp.

4. Wash cells 3x dH20.

5. Gradually dehydrate in graded series of chilled ethanol for 15 min each at room temp (30%, 50%, 70%, 90%, 100% (x3 dry ethanol)).

6. Gradually infiltrate with resin at room temp. (30% overnight, 50% all day, 70% overnight, 100% all day, 100% overnight, 100% all day).

7. Invert coverslips (cell side down) onto full Beem capsules and polymerise overnight at 55 degrees Celcius.

8. Dip sample in liquid nitrogen to remove glass coverslip.

I seriously doubt any living thing could survive these processes. Thus, the final product is not living and is just dead cells which are putrefying and creating fungal growths.

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

So, you think that the fact that things have moved on since 1890 is a bad thing.

Your view is like saying that sex doesn't cause babies because sometimes it doesn't and (allegedly, at least once) there was a baby without  the parents having sex.

It's more complicated than that. We have realised that since Koch's day- and we have updated the postulates.

In other words - You haven't even started to justify his old postulates and now you are trying to create more complications and diversions so that nobody will ever find out about the terrible truth of the matter.

[RD]

http://www.naturalnews.com ...

"If you cite NaturalNews on any matter whatsoever, you are almost certainly wrong."

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Natural_News

David Gorski of ScienceBlogs, called Natural News "one of the most wretched hives of scum and quackery on the Internet," and the most "blatant purveyor of the worst kind of quackery and paranoid anti-physician and anti-medicine conspiracy theories anywhere on the Internet", and a one-stop-shop for "virtually every quackery known to humankind, all slathered with a heaping, helping of unrelenting hostility to science-based medicine and science in general."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_News#Criticism_and_controversies

[Atkhenaken (OP)]

http://www.naturalnews.com ...

"If you cite NaturalNews on any matter whatsoever, you are almost certainly wrong."

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Natural_News

David Gorski of ScienceBlogs, called Natural News "one of the most wretched hives of scum and quackery on the Internet," and the most "blatant purveyor of the worst kind of quackery and paranoid anti-physician and anti-medicine conspiracy theories anywhere on the Internet", and a one-stop-shop for "virtually every quackery known to humankind, all slathered with a heaping, helping of unrelenting hostility to science-based medicine and science in general."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_News#Criticism_and_controversies

Well, all medical practitioners are quacks; including allopathic and naturopathic. That is because good health doesn't require any medications, herbs, pills and/or other manipulations of the body etc. We have been deceived for the last 10,000 years by the agricultural revolution which introduced inappropriate foods which are the cause of 98 % of all disease. If you take away the grain, sugar, dairy and alcohol, then nobody would ever get sick. The other 2 % of disease is caused by fecal material and dangerous chemicals which may be added as food colouring, pesticides or as a preservative.

Why don't you respond to the evidence instead of creating diversions and distractions? Are YOU part of the corrupt system as well?