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  4. Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
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Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #40 on: 15/09/2016 20:32:16 »
Nobody is disputing what happens when you spin an egg.
So providing a video will not change anything.
Why are you proposing to waste time and bandwidth on it?

Angular momentum is a conserved quantity.
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Offline William McC (OP)

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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #41 on: 16/09/2016 11:39:16 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 15/09/2016 20:32:16
Nobody is disputing what happens when you spin an egg.
So providing a video will not change anything.
Why are you proposing to waste time and bandwidth on it?

Angular momentum is a conserved quantity.

The great force required to spin a high viscosity liquid is real. It does not matter if it is floating or on a countertop. Each individual particle in a liquid is trying to continue in a tangent path to the axis. Unlike a solid object where the particles are trapped in one location within the solid objects geometry.

The particles in a liquid are moved randomly when a liquid mass is rotated, within the geometry they are contained, causing friction. If you can dispute that then perhaps I am wrong. The "energy" of rotating a liquid is converted to heat, rather than a spinning movement. So although no energy is lost, if you wish a liquid body to spin you must continue applying force, or it will stop spinning and making heat. These are laws Newton understood. Unless you freeze a liquid, rotating it will cause mixing, and mixing causes friction, so to conserve the energy lost to friction, one must apply continued power to a liquid to make it spin.



Sincerely,

William McCormick   

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #42 on: 16/09/2016 15:41:22 »
"The great force required to spin a high viscosity liquid is real"
Not really

Why do you keep saying stuff that's not true?

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Offline William McC (OP)

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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #43 on: 16/09/2016 23:20:05 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 16/09/2016 15:41:22
"The great force required to spin a high viscosity liquid is real"
Not really

Why do you keep saying stuff that's not true?

I cannot get your movie, it displays a black screen. I tried it on multiple platforms and still nothing. That is why I post the address to my videos. 

Try rotating liquid in a container. There is friction generated within the fluid that does not move like a solid does, as a single object. Liquid swirls. As soon as you rotate a liquid mass, there is internal friction generated. No one can say anything differently and not be a fool. As soon as friction is generated there is a loss of energy between the energy applied to rotate the liquid and the heat generated. Newton had proven this.



Sincerely,

William McCormick
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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #44 on: 17/09/2016 01:41:14 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 16/09/2016 15:41:22
"The great force required to spin a high viscosity liquid is real"
Not really

Why do you keep saying stuff that's not true?

I looked at the information in the webpage and I believe I found the movie about glass blowing that you meant to post.

Molten glass is not necessarily melted fluid glass. Glass that comes out of a large molten liquid vat is melted glass. Glass blowing uses a form of glass that is in transition, some areas are more liquid or fluid like than others. However the glass used for glass blowing is not melted liquid glass. Molten liquid glass pours almost like chocolate milk.

The core of the earth is molten liquid magma. It is fluid deep in the earth and it becomes a semi fluid material upon cooling near the surface.

Why are you playing word games when challenged with science questions and scientific information? While claiming I am somehow being disingenuous. Before I get to insulting people I make sure my science is spot on.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

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Offline William McC (OP)

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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #45 on: 17/09/2016 15:54:47 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 11/09/2016 18:55:26
" However you did not comment on potassium permanganate being used as a method of decontamination for radioactive contamination of the skin."
Would you like me to?
OK
 potassium is radioactive.
It would border on madness to use it to seek to remove radioactivity.
Also, permanganate is rather corrosive to skin (Not to mention staining it brown/ black).

It's possible that they might once have used it.
So what?
That does not mean that it works.
It certainly does not mean that it forms a pale  hydrate.

"I am fighting a knowledge blackout, you on the other hand are just quoting common sources. "
It is unfortunate that your knowledge has blacked out.
However the reason I'm citing common sources is that they are easy to cite.
What I am actually relying on is a vast experience of chemistry. I have been playing this game professionally for 28 years: I studied it at Oxford for  4 years before that and at school for many years before that- as I said- starting at home with my dad's old text books.

So, what I cite here isn't really the point.
When I point out that you must be wrong about a pale permanganate- because permanganates are not pale, it is simple logic.

"That always omit the history of the chemistry or chemical compound. "
Chemicals do not remember history.
What you are purporting to claim is that "way back" we somehow knew more chemistry than we do now.
How is that possible?
If the old books don't agree with the new observations, guess which one is wrong?

You have this
"The fact that solid sodium hydroxide contains free water as well as sodium oxide tells me that it is not a stable compound we are looking at." completely the wrong way round
It is a stable compound and it does not contain the oxide.
You are misunderstanding a proximate analysis in that old book you cited.
So when you say "It is a transitioning mix and partial crystallization. According to your definitions. ", again, you are completely wrong.
Sodium hydroxide is a single chemical compound; it is not a hydrate of the oxide.

"I ordered some potassium permanganate and I will see if I can produce some lavender crystals of potassium permanganate using controlled temperature and a vacuum pump. I imagine the oral does must have been very small to create a lavender crystal. "
Have fun.
You will of course fail.

that's because it's impossible.
If it was something that pharmacists did  in order to make some preparation then it would be written down.
I'd be able to find it on line- so would you.
I'd be able to find it in my old pharmacopoeias. I have paper copies because I collect that sort of data.
It's not there.

If this stuff was some sort of patent medicine then (the hint is in the name) there would be a patent.


The best reason for it to only be in your head is that you dreamed it.


And, once you start introducing stuff about
"we know that air burns if hot enough"
(It does not)
"usually because it is separated to its individual atoms"
(No it isn't.)
"early submarine launched rockets"
"So yea we knew things that others to this day by way of the "laws" of conservation claim could not have existed. " (Those conservation laws are mathematically proven to be true)
"This was in the fifties,"
"My point is the Habor process is a fusion reaction"
"That works much like a ramjet"
"if you have looked at taxation ..."
"I believe the ramjet that detonated air, started to create high voltage from the pressure differential created by the Venturi, that in turn created a plasma that expanded the air violently. "
"I have electrically created plasma in pure nitrogen, and oxygen. Both react rather violently. "

and other such ramblings, you look like Grandpa Simpson.



because it's got nothing to do with permanganates.


I received very pure potassium permanganate the other day. It is not at all radio active. Dry Green Tea from Japan is outputting many times the radiation of potassium permanganate.

It turns out the lavender solution does not stain the skin or anything else for that matter. And it works extremely effectively at disinfecting the skin. Even deep infections soaked for a few minutes in a lavender solution of potassium permanganate totally cures the infection. An infection that iodine could not stop. The solution turns brown when it is pretty well used up. However the skin is unchanged. It will not even stain cloth if rinsed out of the cloth.

Only a few specs of the black potassium permanganate powder which is almost invisible on a white background will create a quart of lavender solution. It is extremely potent.


Sincerely,

William McCormick


 
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #46 on: 17/09/2016 22:46:25 »
"Molten glass is not necessarily melted fluid glass."
Nor is egg white.
Molten glass is a lot more similar to the molten rock of the Earth's core.

"Newton had proven this."
Citation please.

Incidentally, you rather miss the point that, sitting here on Earth, I don't see the Earth's core rotating.

"Before I get to insulting people I make sure my science is spot on. "
Your science is practically non-existent in this case.
You claimed that "The great force required to spin a high viscosity liquid is real"
I posted a link (sorry this site corrupted it) to a you tube video of someone who was spinning a liquid with no great force.
That proves you are wrong.
No "word games" just evidential proof of the falsity of your assertion.

"I received very pure potassium permanganate the other day. It is not at all radio active. "
Then it is either a very unusual (and insanely expensive) isotopically  enriched  product, or it's not potassium permanganate.
However I suspect that the real problem is that you don't understand how to make a proper measurement of radioactivity.

Potassium is mainly a beta emitter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium-40
Those same beta particles are easily blocked so, if you have the potassium in the presence of a relatively high atomic number element like manganese, the manganese will block a lot of the radiation.
If, on the other hand, you have some tea leaves then (1) there will be other radioisotopes emoting radiation and (2) there will be a lot less "heavy" elements blocking that radiation.

How did you calibrate for self-absorption in the measurements you made?
Or did you not understand enough about the subject to realise that you needed to make that correction?
(That is, of course, part of getting the science "spot on".)

"It turns out the lavender solution does not stain the skin or anything else for that matter."
Really? Did you try running it slowly through a filter paper?

"And it works extremely effectively at disinfecting the skin. "
Is that "spot on" science where you actually did the experiment- or did you make it up?
You seem to have forgotten that I already acknowledged that it kills bugs- so that's not worth further discussion as such, but I'd like to know how you quantified it.

Ditto "Even deep infections soaked for a few minutes in a lavender solution of potassium permanganate totally cures the infection. An infection that iodine could not stop. The solution turns brown when it is pretty well used up. "
Got any evidence?
Could it be that the very dilute solution did nothing, but, unlike iodine, it didn't damage the tissue so the body's immune system could take out the infection?
Where are the clinical trial data?
That's pretty much the minimum for "spot on" science, surely?


And finally, you seem to be trying to make my point for me.
You say "Only a few specs of the black potassium permanganate powder which is almost invisible on a white background will create a quart of lavender solution. It is extremely potent. "
and yes, I agree.
It only takes traces of permanganate to make a material lavender coloured. I pointed that out  while back - I said that even a 1% solution is very dark.

And yet you were originally claiming that this tiny trace was enough to bind the water together to make a crystal.
Had you forgotten that the thread was about that absurd claim of yours.
You know that anything more than a trace of permanganate will make the mixture very dark- yet you say that even less than that will hold it together as a crystal.

Is that another bit of "spot on" scientific reasoning?
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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #47 on: 18/09/2016 21:25:19 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 17/09/2016 22:46:25
"Molten glass is not necessarily melted fluid glass."
Nor is egg white.
Molten glass is a lot more similar to the molten rock of the Earth's core.

"Newton had proven this."
Citation please.

Incidentally, you rather miss the point that, sitting here on Earth, I don't see the Earth's core rotating.

"Before I get to insulting people I make sure my science is spot on. "
Your science is practically non-existent in this case.
You claimed that "The great force required to spin a high viscosity liquid is real"
I posted a link (sorry this site corrupted it) to a you tube video of someone who was spinning a liquid with no great force.
That proves you are wrong.
No "word games" just evidential proof of the falsity of your assertion.

"I received very pure potassium permanganate the other day. It is not at all radio active. "
Then it is either a very unusual (and insanely expensive) isotopically  enriched  product, or it's not potassium permanganate.
However I suspect that the real problem is that you don't understand how to make a proper measurement of radioactivity.

Potassium is mainly a beta emitter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium-40
Those same beta particles are easily blocked so, if you have the potassium in the presence of a relatively high atomic number element like manganese, the manganese will block a lot of the radiation.
If, on the other hand, you have some tea leaves then (1) there will be other radioisotopes emoting radiation and (2) there will be a lot less "heavy" elements blocking that radiation.

How did you calibrate for self-absorption in the measurements you made?
Or did you not understand enough about the subject to realise that you needed to make that correction?
(That is, of course, part of getting the science "spot on".)

"It turns out the lavender solution does not stain the skin or anything else for that matter."
Really? Did you try running it slowly through a filter paper?

"And it works extremely effectively at disinfecting the skin. "
Is that "spot on" science where you actually did the experiment- or did you make it up?
You seem to have forgotten that I already acknowledged that it kills bugs- so that's not worth further discussion as such, but I'd like to know how you quantified it.

Ditto "Even deep infections soaked for a few minutes in a lavender solution of potassium permanganate totally cures the infection. An infection that iodine could not stop. The solution turns brown when it is pretty well used up. "
Got any evidence?
Could it be that the very dilute solution did nothing, but, unlike iodine, it didn't damage the tissue so the body's immune system could take out the infection?
Where are the clinical trial data?
That's pretty much the minimum for "spot on" science, surely?


And finally, you seem to be trying to make my point for me.
You say "Only a few specs of the black potassium permanganate powder which is almost invisible on a white background will create a quart of lavender solution. It is extremely potent. "
and yes, I agree.
It only takes traces of permanganate to make a material lavender coloured. I pointed that out  while back - I said that even a 1% solution is very dark.

And yet you were originally claiming that this tiny trace was enough to bind the water together to make a crystal.
Had you forgotten that the thread was about that absurd claim of yours.
You know that anything more than a trace of permanganate will make the mixture very dark- yet you say that even less than that will hold it together as a crystal.

Is that another bit of "spot on" scientific reasoning?

Newtons claim is that energy is neither created or destroyed, just altered. That means perpetual motion.

What that also means is that ambient radiation is altered to create an effect, however no energy is lost because the particles are quickly brought back to full potential, near full velocity. However the effect is created, and in some other area an effect cannot be created while the first effect is taking place. So although we can create effects, nothing is ever consumed or lost.

So if the melted rock in the earths core, is moving around flowing ebbing it is creating friction. That friction the heat, needs to be accounted for. The magnum is melted rock not a semi-solid.

Liquids when moved create friction no way around it. They used to sell a soup machine that used the friction of moving the soup rapidly through compressing type gears to heat a cup of soup, in 20 seconds faster than microwave. But it turned all the veggies into mush.

I just started using my potassium permanganate and I can assure you it so powerful that it must be seen to be believed. The lavender fluid turns brown after you soak flesh in it, mine, in a few minutes time, remarkable stuff really. I will try to make a video of me mixing some, the amounts of potassium permanganate are so infinitesimally small and the batch so large that as I say you must see it to believe it. I was impressed by the amount it produced. I will make a video.

With the water around 60 degrees, even a lavender solution can be witnessed having trouble absorbing more potassium permanganate. I would think dropping the temperature to 40 degrees Fahrenheit, waters most dense state, would be where crystallization would occur.



Sincerely,

William McCormick

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Offline William McC (OP)

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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #48 on: 18/09/2016 21:41:31 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 17/09/2016 22:46:25
"Molten glass is not necessarily melted fluid glass."
Nor is egg white.
Molten glass is a lot more similar to the molten rock of the Earth's core.

"Newton had proven this."
Citation please.

Incidentally, you rather miss the point that, sitting here on Earth, I don't see the Earth's core rotating.

"Before I get to insulting people I make sure my science is spot on. "
Your science is practically non-existent in this case.
You claimed that "The great force required to spin a high viscosity liquid is real"
I posted a link (sorry this site corrupted it) to a you tube video of someone who was spinning a liquid with no great force.
That proves you are wrong.
No "word games" just evidential proof of the falsity of your assertion.

"I received very pure potassium permanganate the other day. It is not at all radio active. "
Then it is either a very unusual (and insanely expensive) isotopically  enriched  product, or it's not potassium permanganate.
However I suspect that the real problem is that you don't understand how to make a proper measurement of radioactivity.

Potassium is mainly a beta emitter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium-40
Those same beta particles are easily blocked so, if you have the potassium in the presence of a relatively high atomic number element like manganese, the manganese will block a lot of the radiation.
If, on the other hand, you have some tea leaves then (1) there will be other radioisotopes emoting radiation and (2) there will be a lot less "heavy" elements blocking that radiation.

How did you calibrate for self-absorption in the measurements you made?
Or did you not understand enough about the subject to realise that you needed to make that correction?
(That is, of course, part of getting the science "spot on".)

"It turns out the lavender solution does not stain the skin or anything else for that matter."
Really? Did you try running it slowly through a filter paper?

"And it works extremely effectively at disinfecting the skin. "
Is that "spot on" science where you actually did the experiment- or did you make it up?
You seem to have forgotten that I already acknowledged that it kills bugs- so that's not worth further discussion as such, but I'd like to know how you quantified it.

Ditto "Even deep infections soaked for a few minutes in a lavender solution of potassium permanganate totally cures the infection. An infection that iodine could not stop. The solution turns brown when it is pretty well used up. "
Got any evidence?
Could it be that the very dilute solution did nothing, but, unlike iodine, it didn't damage the tissue so the body's immune system could take out the infection?
Where are the clinical trial data?
That's pretty much the minimum for "spot on" science, surely?


And finally, you seem to be trying to make my point for me.
You say "Only a few specs of the black potassium permanganate powder which is almost invisible on a white background will create a quart of lavender solution. It is extremely potent. "
and yes, I agree.
It only takes traces of permanganate to make a material lavender coloured. I pointed that out  while back - I said that even a 1% solution is very dark.

And yet you were originally claiming that this tiny trace was enough to bind the water together to make a crystal.
Had you forgotten that the thread was about that absurd claim of yours.
You know that anything more than a trace of permanganate will make the mixture very dark- yet you say that even less than that will hold it together as a crystal.

Is that another bit of "spot on" scientific reasoning?

As far as the manganese blocking the potassium I do not concur. I have thoriated tungsten rods that are ten times more radio active than my radioactive green tea. So lets not get too crazy here. My thorium tungsten welding rods can penetrate a half inch of lead, to create a reading on the geiger counter. So I guess I just bought the best darn potassium permanganate 99.97 percent pure. It is dead on my Geiger counter.

Sincerely

William McCormick


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Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #49 on: 18/09/2016 21:52:32 »
Thorium mostly decays by releasing alpha particles, which have very poor penetrating power. There is also some degree of decay releasing gamma radiation (from 228Th), which is very penetrating. If you do not understand the difference between beta (which is what potassium does) and gamma radiation, you shouldn't have access thoriated anything!
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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #50 on: 18/09/2016 22:43:43 »
Quote from: chiralSPO on 18/09/2016 21:52:32
Thorium mostly decays by releasing alpha particles, which have very poor penetrating power. There is also some degree of decay releasing gamma radiation (from 228Th), which is very penetrating. If you do not understand the difference between beta (which is what potassium does) and gamma radiation, you shouldn't have access thoriated anything!

Let me get this straight now, my thoriated tungsten welding rods, that are bought commonly at the local weld shops all over the U.S., that are listed as alpha omitter's, are now outputting constant beta and gamma radiation? The thorium that is joined with the very heavy Tungsten element in a 2:98 ratio. But the manganese is absorbing the more powerful beta radiation of the potassium? I think we should get our stories straight before we put all this on a science forum.

Are you saying if I cover a thoriated tungsten rod that registers on my Geiger Counter, with potassium permanganate that I will not be able to read it?

What is so funny is that I have been warning welders for many years that thorium is rather radio active. Their chemists claim I am paranoid and that, the level of radiation is minimal and not a health hazard. Haha. I have noted that with age, oxidation, the radiation increases. Also if you use them without proper noble gas coverage they can create a room full of radiation. Noble gas welding cylinders when almost empty often output other elements than pure noble gases. Which as I was mentioning in another topic that was closed, could kill. What I stated, I have done, so I know that who ever moderated that thread is not about the science or living but rather wants to play legal eagle.

Look at anything grown in South America the soil is highly radio active. Brazil nuts will register on a geiger counter. I have not tried a banana from South America though.

Sincerely,

William McCormick
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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #51 on: 19/09/2016 20:35:53 »
OK, for a start, you seem to now accept that Newton didn't say this" As soon as you rotate a liquid mass, there is internal friction generated. No one can say anything differently and not be a fool. As soon as friction is generated there is a loss of energy between the energy applied to rotate the liquid and the heat generated. "
as you claimed earlier.

There's a problem with "Newtons claim is that energy is neither created or destroyed, just altered. "
Newton didn't have a clear definition or understanding of energy so he couldn't have made that statement.
"I just started using my potassium permanganate and I can assure you it so powerful that it must be seen to be believed. The lavender fluid turns brown after you soak flesh in it, mine, in a few minutes time, remarkable stuff really. "
Of course I believe it;I told you it would do that. You are the one who was saying it didn't.
Do you remember saying "It turns out the lavender solution does not stain the skin or anything else for that matter."?


I see that ChiralSPO has tried to explain basic radioactivity to you and all you could come up with was a straw man.
So I will have another go.
The gamma rays from thorium are much more penetrating than the beta particles from potassium.
That's why they go through lead.
It is, therefore, unsurprising that they go through tungsten.
It's also utterly irrelevant.

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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #52 on: 19/09/2016 21:00:14 »
Quote from: William McC on 18/09/2016 22:43:43
Quote from: chiralSPO on 18/09/2016 21:52:32
Thorium mostly decays by releasing alpha particles, which have very poor penetrating power. There is also some degree of decay releasing gamma radiation (from 228Th), which is very penetrating. If you do not understand the difference between beta (which is what potassium does) and gamma radiation, you shouldn't have access thoriated anything!

Let me get this straight now, my thoriated tungsten welding rods, that are bought commonly at the local weld shops all over the U.S., that are listed as alpha omitter's, are now outputting constant beta and gamma radiation? The thorium that is joined with the very heavy Tungsten element in a 2:98 ratio. But the manganese is absorbing the more powerful beta radiation of the potassium? I think we should get our stories straight before we put all this on a science forum.

Are you saying if I cover a thoriated tungsten rod that registers on my Geiger Counter, with potassium permanganate that I will not be able to read it?

What is so funny is that I have been warning welders for many years that thorium is rather radio active. Their chemists claim I am paranoid and that, the level of radiation is minimal and not a health hazard. Haha. I have noted that with age, oxidation, the radiation increases. Also if you use them without proper noble gas coverage they can create a room full of radiation. Noble gas welding cylinders when almost empty often output other elements than pure noble gases. Which as I was mentioning in another topic that was closed, could kill. What I stated, I have done, so I know that who ever moderated that thread is not about the science or living but rather wants to play legal eagle.

Look at anything grown in South America the soil is highly radio active. Brazil nuts will register on a geiger counter. I have not tried a banana from South America though.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

"Let me get this straight now, my thoriated tungsten welding rods, that are bought commonly at the local weld shops all over the U.S., that are listed as alpha omitter's, are now outputting constant beta and gamma radiation? "

Yes. Naturally occurring Th is a mixture of isotopes and they emit a range of radiation.
Were you not aware of that?

"he thorium that is joined with the very heavy Tungsten element in a 2:98 ratio. But the manganese is absorbing the more powerful beta radiation of the potassium? "
It's not a matter of "powerful" . The gamma rays are more penetrating. That's how the 3 tyeps of radiation were originally distinguished into 3 groups - by their penetration range.

Also, you seem not to have noticed that the 40K which is doing the emitting is only about 0.012% of the potassium. By comparison the 2% of thorium is a lot.

"Are you saying if I cover a thoriated tungsten rod that registers on my Geiger Counter, with potassium permanganate that I will not be able to read it?"
No.
Nobody said that did they?
What we did say (by implication) is that a layer of manganese would severely attenuate the beta radiation from any potassium (or any other beta source).

You have not explained how you would do the self absorption correction that would be needed for this to be "spot on" science.

"What is so funny is that I have been warning welders for many years that thorium is rather radio active. Their chemists claim I am paranoid and that, the level of radiation is minimal and not a health hazard. Haha."
You need to hang out with better chemists.
The fact is that thorium is actually rather toxic- even without the radiation damage you should avoid it like you would nickel or lead.
They were right in saying the radiation wasn't the big problem.
I am more radioactive than a welding rod.

Incidentally re "Noble gas welding cylinders when almost empty often output other elements than pure noble gases. Which as I was mentioning in another topic that was closed, could kill. What I stated, I have done, so I know that who ever moderated that thread is not about the science or living but rather wants to play legal eagle. "
Gases mix.
So, the gas mixture coming from a full tank is nearly the same as that from an empty tank. Not that it matters much.

What you stupidly said was that you couldn't be asphyxiated by a pure noble gas. That's simply not true.
And since it's dangerous nonsense, that thread was killed.
It's not because anyone was being a "legal eagle". It's because you were spouting stupid dangerous tosh.
I suggest that you don't try to raise the issue again


This bit is funny
"Look at anything grown in South America the soil is highly radio active."
You really think that , in spite of the fact that South America is huge, all the soil there is the same.

Really?
Did you actually type that, and expect to be taken seriously?

The more "spot on" version of the science is that Brazil nut tress grow in rain forests.
Because there's a lot of rain, the soil is poor- much of the nutritional value is washed out.
The trees solve that problem by simply transpiring huge amounts of water.
In the case of the Brazil nut tree they don't do a very good job at excluding barium and radium when they try to take up calcium.
That's why the nuts are radioactive.

Why not check your "spot on" science before posting?
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Offline William McC (OP)

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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #53 on: 20/09/2016 06:43:26 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 19/09/2016 21:00:14
Quote from: William McC on 18/09/2016 22:43:43
Quote from: chiralSPO on 18/09/2016 21:52:32
Thorium mostly decays by releasing alpha particles, which have very poor penetrating power. There is also some degree of decay releasing gamma radiation (from 228Th), which is very penetrating. If you do not understand the difference between beta (which is what potassium does) and gamma radiation, you shouldn't have access thoriated anything!

Let me get this straight now, my thoriated tungsten welding rods, that are bought commonly at the local weld shops all over the U.S., that are listed as alpha omitter's, are now outputting constant beta and gamma radiation? The thorium that is joined with the very heavy Tungsten element in a 2:98 ratio. But the manganese is absorbing the more powerful beta radiation of the potassium? I think we should get our stories straight before we put all this on a science forum.

Are you saying if I cover a thoriated tungsten rod that registers on my Geiger Counter, with potassium permanganate that I will not be able to read it?

What is so funny is that I have been warning welders for many years that thorium is rather radio active. Their chemists claim I am paranoid and that, the level of radiation is minimal and not a health hazard. Haha. I have noted that with age, oxidation, the radiation increases. Also if you use them without proper noble gas coverage they can create a room full of radiation. Noble gas welding cylinders when almost empty often output other elements than pure noble gases. Which as I was mentioning in another topic that was closed, could kill. What I stated, I have done, so I know that who ever moderated that thread is not about the science or living but rather wants to play legal eagle.

Look at anything grown in South America the soil is highly radio active. Brazil nuts will register on a geiger counter. I have not tried a banana from South America though.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

"Let me get this straight now, my thoriated tungsten welding rods, that are bought commonly at the local weld shops all over the U.S., that are listed as alpha omitter's, are now outputting constant beta and gamma radiation? "

Yes. Naturally occurring Th is a mixture of isotopes and they emit a range of radiation.
Were you not aware of that?

"he thorium that is joined with the very heavy Tungsten element in a 2:98 ratio. But the manganese is absorbing the more powerful beta radiation of the potassium? "
It's not a matter of "powerful" . The gamma rays are more penetrating. That's how the 3 tyeps of radiation were originally distinguished into 3 groups - by their penetration range.

Also, you seem not to have noticed that the 40K which is doing the emitting is only about 0.012% of the potassium. By comparison the 2% of thorium is a lot.

"Are you saying if I cover a thoriated tungsten rod that registers on my Geiger Counter, with potassium permanganate that I will not be able to read it?"
No.
Nobody said that did they?
What we did say (by implication) is that a layer of manganese would severely attenuate the beta radiation from any potassium (or any other beta source).

You have not explained how you would do the self absorption correction that would be needed for this to be "spot on" science.

"What is so funny is that I have been warning welders for many years that thorium is rather radio active. Their chemists claim I am paranoid and that, the level of radiation is minimal and not a health hazard. Haha."
You need to hang out with better chemists.
The fact is that thorium is actually rather toxic- even without the radiation damage you should avoid it like you would nickel or lead.
They were right in saying the radiation wasn't the big problem.
I am more radioactive than a welding rod.

Incidentally re "Noble gas welding cylinders when almost empty often output other elements than pure noble gases. Which as I was mentioning in another topic that was closed, could kill. What I stated, I have done, so I know that who ever moderated that thread is not about the science or living but rather wants to play legal eagle. "
Gases mix.
So, the gas mixture coming from a full tank is nearly the same as that from an empty tank. Not that it matters much.

What you stupidly said was that you couldn't be asphyxiated by a pure noble gas. That's simply not true.
And since it's dangerous nonsense, that thread was killed.
It's not because anyone was being a "legal eagle". It's because you were spouting stupid dangerous tosh.
I suggest that you don't try to raise the issue again


This bit is funny
"Look at anything grown in South America the soil is highly radio active."
You really think that , in spite of the fact that South America is huge, all the soil there is the same.

Really?
Did you actually type that, and expect to be taken seriously?

The more "spot on" version of the science is that Brazil nut tress grow in rain forests.
Because there's a lot of rain, the soil is poor- much of the nutritional value is washed out.
The trees solve that problem by simply transpiring huge amounts of water.
In the case of the Brazil nut tree they don't do a very good job at excluding barium and radium when they try to take up calcium.
That's why the nuts are radioactive.

Why not check your "spot on" science before posting?

You claim that you are more radio active than my thoriated tungsten rods, I hope not for your sake. Thoriated tungsten rods if you bunch a few pounds of them together create heat. But according to you the thoriated tungsten rods are not emitting any dangerous radiation. But my potassium permanganate that I believe is the lowest radiation zone in my home, is almost nearing Fukushima levels of deadly output?

If you are afraid of potassium 40 witch is just potassium with a an unknown radio active contaminate, you would not eat most foods grown, because most are grown in radio active soil. Certainly fish are out of the question. Pure Tungsten also carries with it radio active contaminants that are considered by older welders to be worse than the known contaminate in Thoriated Tungsten. All carbon on earth now is highly contaminated by unknown radio active substances. Our livestock as well are all contaminated. I personally believe that potassium permanganate is a safe substance to use.

youtu.be/ClDHDcxBJhM

This is a video of some potassium permanganate solution being made, you have to copy and paste the youtu.be/ClDHDcxBJhM link into your browser though to get it to play.


Sincerely,

William McCormick


 
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Offline William McC (OP)

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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #54 on: 20/09/2016 06:51:56 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 19/09/2016 20:35:53
OK, for a start, you seem to now accept that Newton didn't say this" As soon as you rotate a liquid mass, there is internal friction generated. No one can say anything differently and not be a fool. As soon as friction is generated there is a loss of energy between the energy applied to rotate the liquid and the heat generated. "
as you claimed earlier.

There's a problem with "Newtons claim is that energy is neither created or destroyed, just altered. "
Newton didn't have a clear definition or understanding of energy so he couldn't have made that statement.
"I just started using my potassium permanganate and I can assure you it so powerful that it must be seen to be believed. The lavender fluid turns brown after you soak flesh in it, mine, in a few minutes time, remarkable stuff really. "
Of course I believe it;I told you it would do that. You are the one who was saying it didn't.
Do you remember saying "It turns out the lavender solution does not stain the skin or anything else for that matter."?


I see that ChiralSPO has tried to explain basic radioactivity to you and all you could come up with was a straw man.
So I will have another go.
The gamma rays from thorium are much more penetrating than the beta particles from potassium.
That's why they go through lead.
It is, therefore, unsurprising that they go through tungsten.
It's also utterly irrelevant.

Newton and Benjamin Franklin understood matter far better than any modern physicist today. Newton understood we live in a perpetual motion universe, as did Benjamin Franklin. If you understand ARC (Anode, Rectified, Cathode), you know we live in a perpetual motion universe. Inspect enough factory accidents and you will know we live in a perpetual motion universe. 

Just because now there are laws against understanding the universe, and the very proper stuffed shirts, follow those "laws" and therefore do not believe in perpetual motion, does not mean that rabbles do not understand it.

Sincerely,

William McCormick
« Last Edit: 20/09/2016 06:55:24 by William McC »
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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #55 on: 20/09/2016 20:24:16 »
My word! what a lot of nonsense
"You claim that you are more radio active than my thoriated tungsten rods, I hope not for your sake. Thoriated tungsten rods if you bunch a few pounds of them together create heat."
I also generate heat. However you will never measure the heat generated by a bunch of welding rods.
No- really you won't.
Try it- get a thermometer and a vacuum flask or two.

The specific activity of (natural) thorium is about .1 microcuries per gram and a rod weighs a few tens of grams of which a couple of percent- call it a gram on a good day - is thorium So each rod is about a tenth of a microcurie.

That's roughly the same as from the potassium in me.
https://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/consumer%20products/potassiumgeneralinfo.htm
And, of course I also contain other radioactive elements- notably carbon. So, "Spot on" science shows that you don't understand radioactivity.

"But according to you the thoriated tungsten rods are not emitting any dangerous radiation."
I never said that.
Why are you pretending that I did?
Is that your idea of getting facts "spot on"?


"But my potassium permanganate that I believe is the lowest radiation zone in my home, "
Again, I never said that- why lie about it? did you think that would somehow help?

" But my potassium permanganate that I believe is the lowest radiation zone in my home, is almost nearing Fukushima levels of deadly output? "
Again, that's nonsense and nobody said anything like it.
You are just a hopeless liar.
Incidentally, if the middle of the water tank isn't markedly less of a radiation zone, you are in trouble.

"If you are afraid of potassium 40"
Nobody is
"... witch is just potassium with a an unknown radio active contaminate,"
No it is not.
It's a radioisotope of potassium.

"Pure Tungsten also carries with it radio active contaminants that are considered by older welders to be worse than the known contaminate in Thoriated Tungsten."
Ok, now you are adding irrationality to the list; if it is pure tungsten then it doesn't have anything except tungsten in it does it?
So it doesn't have contaminants.
So they are not hazardous- because they don't exist.

"All carbon on earth now is highly contaminated by unknown radio active substances."
Really?
How?
It's difficult to see why the coal buried deep in the ground is "contaminated" as such- it just isn't pure carbon. Strip out the impurities and you don't have anything radioactive there.
Also, we know what radioactive materials are present - at least any that re present at significant levels. That's one of the nice things about radioactivity- it's really easy to check for.
On the other hand, as you showed earlier, it's easy to do that very badly indeed.

"I personally believe that potassium permanganate is a safe substance to use. "
What as?
It's still neurotoxic- people who are exposed to a lot of it lose their mental and physical functions.


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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #56 on: 20/09/2016 20:35:50 »

"
.... If you understand ARC (Anode, Rectified, Cathode), ..."



It wasn't possible when you said it before, and it still isn't right now.


http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=45336.20

It was bad the first time round, but to reintroduce it seems "interesting"of you.
Why not just stop saying things that are clearly not factual?
Also, you rather seem to have lost focus on the actual topic.
How could something which is very dark, even if only present at 1% or so form pale crystals?
What's holding all the vast excess of water together?

I hope you enjoyed making the video. I'm obviously not going to bother watching it- I know what the stuff looks like. and, since this thread is in the "That can't be right" forum, it's unlikely than more than a handful of people will ever see your post.

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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #57 on: 24/09/2016 15:27:45 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 20/09/2016 20:35:50

"
.... If you understand ARC (Anode, Rectified, Cathode), ..."



It wasn't possible when you said it before, and it still isn't right now.


http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=45336.20

It was bad the first time round, but to reintroduce it seems "interesting"of you.
Why not just stop saying things that are clearly not factual?
Also, you rather seem to have lost focus on the actual topic.
How could something which is very dark, even if only present at 1% or so form pale crystals?
What's holding all the vast excess of water together?

I hope you enjoyed making the video. I'm obviously not going to bother watching it- I know what the stuff looks like. and, since this thread is in the "That can't be right" forum, it's unlikely than more than a handful of people will ever see your post.

Remember that a while back, I had stated that they used marble plates to plate metal to. And it was refuted by some. Since I have personally scrapped pounds of silver off of the large rotating marble blocks in the platting machines for reclaiming, I find it kind of funny. It is the reality it is not open to debate. If you would like to keep refuting it ok, reality isn't going change.

You can do some tests at home, take a piece of aluminum foil, about 18 inches square. Lay it on a cement floor it does not matter if the cement is painted or not. Create a 27 volt power source, three nine volt batteries in series.  Connect one terminal of the battery pack to the aluminum foil, place a couch pillow or a bag of sand on the aluminum foil. Connect the other terminal of the batteries, to a multi-meter test lead. Hold the other test lead from the multi meters metal contact tightly in your hand and drop to one knee and note the multi-meter reading. Then drop to two knees, and then lay down on the floor. You will see that electricity flows rather nicely through cement. After all everything is just pure electricity.

Having welded on my back on cement, I am very sure of this phenomena. The welder only outputs 40 volts yet it travels right through the cement and me.

youtu.be/pFtoqm3ELLI



Sincerely,

William McCormick

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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #58 on: 24/09/2016 17:52:15 »
That's remarkable.
You think that the slight conductivity of concrete- which was never disputed- has something to do with showing that Sir Humphrey Davy, the man who first named the electric arc, must have moved forward in time to a point where the words "anode", "cathode" and "rectifier" were invented.

Would you like to explain the link?

Incidentally, it remains the case that marble is a very poor conductor- so much so that it was used as an insulator in standard inductors.
http://www.globalspec.com/specsearch/partspecs?partId={7F369169-AC3F-4EC0-AF72-84203BF93E16}&vid=156785&comp=4155
I have a slab or two of it about the place somewhere- I might get round to measuring the resistivity.


Getting back to the point of the thread, please would you please explain how a tiny amount  (certainly less than 1%) of permanganate turns water into a crystal.

Alternatively, admit that it can't and that you simply didn't remember something correctly.
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Re: Can lavender Potassium Permanganate be used as a radiation antidote?
« Reply #59 on: 25/09/2016 15:45:56 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 24/09/2016 17:52:15
That's remarkable.
You think that the slight conductivity of concrete- which was never disputed- has something to do with showing that Sir Humphrey Davy, the man who first named the electric arc, must have moved forward in time to a point where the words "anode", "cathode" and "rectifier" were invented.

Would you like to explain the link?

Incidentally, it remains the case that marble is a very poor conductor- so much so that it was used as an insulator in standard inductors.
http://www.globalspec.com/specsearch/partspecs?partId={7F369169-AC3F-4EC0-AF72-84203BF93E16}&vid=156785&comp=4155
I have a slab or two of it about the place somewhere- I might get round to measuring the resistivity.


Getting back to the point of the thread, please would you please explain how a tiny amount  (certainly less than 1%) of permanganate turns water into a crystal.

Alternatively, admit that it can't and that you simply didn't remember something correctly.

My point is I stated a reality, that I, they, use in industry marble slabs to reclaim silver. You hang 24 marble slabs depending on the machine from about 4 to 6 inches wide and they hang in the solution about 24 inches deep. These slabs require a large transformer to supply the amperage to carry out the plating. Now do I understand capacitance, ohms/resistance surly. The formula for a capacitor is area of the dielectric in contact with two equal area plates, the resistance of the dielectric, and the thickness of the dielectric. So as I stated and someone without hands on experience refuted, marble is used as a plate in a plating operation. Because it conducts electricity just fine, given enough surface area.

However when I back into a wooden countertop that is covered in plastic mica laminate often known as Formica, Melamine, Wilsonart, the trade names. I suddenly realize my hand is in contact with a live part. That voltage and current goes right through my jeans, and underwear, through, the plastic laminate and wooden structure that it is applied to. Yet I do not feel it through my work boots.

I can touch the hot wire in a home while standing on dry ground in good work boots and socks and feel nothing. I work with electricity on my job and do the above regularly. However if you back into a dielectric, an insulator you might will feel it quick. Even someone else touching you can cause you to feel it suddenly. Fun things we do Haha.

Insulators transmit voltage faster than conductors. Conductors transmit current better, faster than insulators.

Yet in a capacitor, the dielectric conducts both voltage and amperage faster than a conductor would. The reason is that the dielectric in the capacitor has to reach the voltage of the conductor supplying power to one plate (an abundance or particles of electricity), almost instantly or it will detonate. If a shortage of particles of electricity is introduced to a capacitor the capacitor must eject particles of electricity to the power supply terminal that is introducing a shortage of particles of electricity or it will explode. This charging of the capacitor occurs before a conductor can conduct electricity.

Since we know that capacitors are often used to create high amperage outputs where supply power just cannot achieve that kind of amperage, the dielectric can certainly deliver amperage with a couple of square inches of surface area to play with.

Sincerely,

William McCormick
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