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  4. Is energy stored inside a magnet?
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Is energy stored inside a magnet?

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Offline puppypower

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #20 on: 22/05/2017 11:33:50 »
The electrons of atoms are negative charges in motion. Therefore, the electrons of atoms generate both electrostatic and magnetic forces with respect to the nucleus and other electrons. Atoms attempt to lower the overall energy of the atom by arranging the electrons, in space, into what are called orbitals. Orbitals are paths in space that minimize the sum of the electrostatic and magnetic forces, the electrons generate.

In magnetic iron, for example, the outer most electrons are not in the lowest energy state. Rather a number of electrons spread out over extra orbitals, will all these elections having the same spin. The result is the individual magnetic fields of these electrons reinforce each other, instead of cancel, as they do at minimum atomic energy.

The energy stored in the magnet is connected to the outer electrons of individual atoms being in stable, but higher energy levels, where the magnetic fields are all reinforcing each other. The energy of the magnet is based on this stable arrangement of electrons, relative to the stable arrangement called the ground state. 

What makes this higher energy state stable is connected to the electrostatic force. Electrons wish to repel each other since they all have negative charges. The movement of the electrons, creates magnetic fields with certain arrangement in space, magnetically attractive. This magnetic attraction can induce the electrons to get closer, making the electrostatic repulsion get worse, until the two opposing forces balance.

In the case of magnetism, the magnetic fields are repelling each other; reinforcing, spreading out the electrons into extra orbitals, allowing the electrostatic repulsion to drop. Iron ends up with two sweet EM spots, with the magnetic sweet spot higher in overall energy.
« Last Edit: 22/05/2017 11:44:45 by puppypower »
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Offline Yahya (OP)

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #21 on: 23/05/2017 14:32:50 »
there is changeability between kinetic energy and force , in Newtonian mechanics a net force with acceleration "a" will cause some kinetic energy , the opposite is also true kinetic energy of a moving object will cause force , a magnetic force is caused by a moving electron " negative charge " while gravitation is the force due to a moving mass " the electron itself "  around a nucleus , according to the theory of relativity the mass of an object will increase if it speeds up, in fact the gravitation force will increase because its caused by a mass in motion , the electron in motion will cause gravity. electrons does not need to be in uniform motion for gravity to appear , because gravity is just an attraction force and there is not repel force in gravity.
there should be a relation between electron kinetic energy and gravity , assuming the gravity will be zero if electrons are at rest, gravity will increase by the increase in the sum of kinetic energy for electrons.
in this case gravity will depend on the mass of the electron as well as its speed. just like magnetism depends on the charge value and its speed.
« Last Edit: 23/05/2017 15:40:50 by Yahya A. Sharif »
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Offline Yahya (OP)

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #22 on: 23/05/2017 16:46:37 »
I think I added a new view for gravity and its cause.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #23 on: 23/05/2017 22:20:05 »
There is changeability between kinetic energy and force
Not really, they are dimensionally distinct.

 , in Newtonian mechanics a net force with acceleration "a" will cause some kinetic energy ,
No, the force and acceleration may be like the "centrifugal" force  there's no change in energy unless the force move through a distance along its length.

the opposite is also true kinetic energy of a moving object will cause force .

No. not really.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #24 on: 23/05/2017 22:20:37 »
Quote from: Yahya A. Sharif on 23/05/2017 16:46:37
I think I added a new view for gravity and its cause.
I think you wrote stuff that makes no sense.
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Offline Yahya (OP)

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #25 on: 24/05/2017 10:50:49 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/05/2017 22:20:05
, in Newtonian mechanics a net force with acceleration "a" will cause some kinetic energy ,

No, the force and acceleration may be like the "centrifugal" force  there's no change in energy unless the force move through a distance along its length.
I did not say there would be change in energy I said it causes energy to exist, the object first was at rest then what causes it to rotate is a force ,  there is still an object rotating around with kinetic energy , you misunderstand what I write and claim I do not clarify things ,  for your knowledge , there is not in physics a thing called centrifugal force , its just centripetal force , when the centripetal force disappears , the object does not move outward , instead it moves tangential to the circular path. towards its direction of motion at that time.
« Last Edit: 24/05/2017 13:24:47 by Yahya A. Sharif »
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Offline Yahya (OP)

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #26 on: 24/05/2017 13:49:11 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/05/2017 22:20:05
There is changeability between kinetic energy and force
Not really, they are dimensionally distinct.
the word changeability means they have ability to change , changeability between two things is they change and become one another , i.e when a moving object stops it looses its kinetic energy and a force appears , the kinetic energy changed to force and another kind of energy. if I have a spring with potential energy it can exert force on a ball to cause it to move , the spring force no longer exists and kinetic energy appeared.
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Offline Yahya (OP)

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #27 on: 24/05/2017 13:52:04 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/05/2017 22:20:05
the opposite is also true kinetic energy of a moving object will cause force .

No. not really.
when the object  stops . But  in the case of electron it does not stop but it cause a special kind of force i.e magnetic field
« Last Edit: 24/05/2017 14:46:49 by Yahya A. Sharif »
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Offline Colin2B

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #28 on: 24/05/2017 14:06:20 »
Quote from: Yahya A. Sharif on 24/05/2017 13:49:11
when a moving object stops it looses its kinetic energy and a force appears
Can you give an example of what you mean?
Usually an object stops because a force has caused it to decelerate.
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Offline Yahya (OP)

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #29 on: 24/05/2017 14:41:25 »
in the case of collision or friction , a moving object will first exert force on a wall to enable itself to continue moving freely then the wall exert the same amount of force to stop it, an example is a book on a table , when you put a book the force acting is gravity the table does not exert any force , when you put it it tries to move freely with g but it is obstructed by the table, first the gravity exerts force then the table exerts the same force against it  , its intuitive because the moving object  has kinetic energy but the wall has nothing, the two actions can not happen at the same time , one should happen first, there should be a very tiny time between the two events., and the object already had a force acted on it , it uses it again  " but not by the same value " by loosing the kinetic energy it obtained from the first force acting to cause it to move to exert it  on the wall.
 if I exert a force to throw a ball to hit the wall , then I exert the force by my hand on the wall but not directly.
« Last Edit: 24/05/2017 14:43:56 by Yahya A. Sharif »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #30 on: 24/05/2017 20:29:38 »
Quote from: Yahya A. Sharif on 24/05/2017 13:49:11
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/05/2017 22:20:05
There is changeability between kinetic energy and force
Not really, they are dimensionally distinct.
the word changeability means they have ability to change , changeability between two things is they change and become one another
I know what the words mean.
It's just that you are wrong.
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Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #31 on: 25/05/2017 21:41:08 »
Quote from: Yahya A. Sharif on 19/05/2017 17:12:28
the electrons in uniform motion are inside the magnet, motion is energy so the energy is kept on the electrons themselves , ...etc.
You asked where the energy is "stored." I explained that the energy is stored in the field. It is not stored in the kinetic energy of the electrons. The energy comes from the work done in creating the magnetic field. As such it's said that the energy is stored in the field.

How do I know this?  Simple. Its not only a well established fact in physics but can easily be shown. All one has to do to find the derivation is pick up an advanced text on EM like those used in an EM course in college.
« Last Edit: 29/05/2017 18:44:33 by PmbPhy »
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Offline Yahya (OP)

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #32 on: 29/05/2017 17:55:33 »
congratulations  for becoming a global moderator!
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Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #33 on: 29/05/2017 18:45:56 »
Quote from: Yahya A. Sharif on 29/05/2017 17:55:33
congratulations  for becoming a global moderator!
Thanks.

Do you have an objection or disagreement for what I've explained in my response to your question?
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Offline Yahya (OP)

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Re: Is energy stored inside a magnet?
« Reply #34 on: 29/05/2017 19:18:02 »
No I don't. really.
« Last Edit: 29/05/2017 19:33:51 by Yahya »
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