[alancalverd]

There's no convincing reason to restrict the size of our system of civilization to currently existing state.

Oh yes there is! Human "civilisation" is the most wasteful, destructive and internecine disgrace yet to evolve on this planet.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

That's why any life forms successfully passed natural selection have inherent tendency to increase their system size.

Which is why all the fish in the sea are enormous. Never mind the facts, stick with the theory!

Schools of fish are numerous. It's said that there is safety in number. What facts do you think contradict this assertion?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

There's no convincing reason to restrict the size of our system of civilization to currently existing state.

Oh yes there is! Human "civilisation" is the most wasteful, destructive and internecine disgrace yet to evolve on this planet.

Why do you restrict your imagination to this planet?

[alancalverd]

I am unaware of any other civilisation that could be described as "our system".

Schools of fish are numerous. It's said that there is safety in number. What facts do you think contradict this assertion?

Some very small fish do not swim in schools, some very big ones do.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

I am unaware of any other civilisation that could be described as "our system".

Can't you imagine any system unless someone else has finished building it?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Human "civilisation" is the most wasteful, destructive and internecine disgrace yet to evolve on this planet.

What's your idea to improve it?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Human "civilisation" is the most wasteful, destructive and internecine disgrace yet to evolve on this planet.

What's your idea to improve it?

Effectiveness usually comes first in any new system or functionality. Efficiency comes later, by removing unnecessary things that unintentionally or undesired but unavoidably included in previous systems.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Previously, I've defined consciousness as the capacity to pursue goals. At least, that's what I refer to whenever I mention consciousness in this thread.
On the other hand, I've defined goal as pursued condition, which requires the existence of conscious entities to pursue it.

These definitions require us to define pursuit.
Dictionary doesn't seem to help much.

the action of following or pursuing someone or something.

an activity of a specified kind, especially a recreational or athletic one.

In the context of this thread, I'll define pursuit as using or consuming resources to achieve desired conditions.
In turn, this definition then requires the definitions of consume, resource, and desire. But at least there's some progress.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Taking Rejuvenation to Longevity escape velocity: Aubrey De Grey [Aging & Gerontology 2023]

Sooner or later, longevity escape velocity (time 20:00) will be reached. We better be prepared for that moment, in term of public policy, economy, and philosophy.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

In the context of this thread, I'll define pursuit as using or consuming resources to achieve desired conditions.
In turn, this definition then requires the definitions of consume, resource, and desire. But at least there's some progress.

I asked Bard about the definitions of those terms.

A resource is something that can be used to achieve a purpose. It can be anything from a physical object to an intangible idea.

The word "consume" has several meanings, but in general, it means to use up something. It can also mean to destroy something.

The definition of desire is a strong feeling of wanting something.

It has additional information on desire.

Desires can be motivated by a number of factors, including biological needs, social conditioning, and personal experiences. They can also be influenced by our thoughts, feelings, and beliefs.

Desires can be both positive and negative. Positive desires can motivate us to achieve our goals and improve our lives. Negative desires can lead to destructive behaviors, such as addiction or violence.

It is important to understand our desires so that we can make choices that are in our best interests. We can also learn to manage our desires so that they do not control us.

It seems to classify desire as feeling and emotion. While its rational counterpart is called best interest. This later term is what I meant to define goal.

[alancalverd]

Sooner or later, longevity escape velocity (time 20:00) will be reached. We better be prepared for that moment, in term of public policy, economy, and philosophy.

The Greenland Shark, HeLa tumor cells, and several species of fungus have solved the problems of longevity without wasting time on policy, economics or philosophy.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Sooner or later, longevity escape velocity (time 20:00) will be reached. We better be prepared for that moment, in term of public policy, economy, and philosophy.

The Greenland Shark, HeLa tumor cells, and several species of fungus have solved the problems of longevity without wasting time on policy, economics or philosophy.

But as mentioned by Neil deGrasse Tyson, they're like dinosaurs who haven't have a space program.

[alancalverd]

Nor do they need one.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Nor do they need one.

It makes their survival depends on earth. A pale blue dot, which is the cradle of life as we know it. But no one should live in the cradle forever.

[alancalverd]

Nobody does, but most of us are content to do so for as long as we can.

A sprawling sea grass meadow ten miles long near Spain ranks as the oldest known single organism on Earth, according to geneticists.

Posidonia oceanica, known as Neptune?s grass, is endemic to the Mediterranean Sea. But a patch near the island of Formentera, self-cloned like Pando, stands out for its age, estimated at 200,000 years.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Nobody does, but most of us are content to do so for as long as we can.

A sprawling sea grass meadow ten miles long near Spain ranks as the oldest known single organism on Earth, according to geneticists.

Posidonia oceanica, known as Neptune?s grass, is endemic to the Mediterranean Sea. But a patch near the island of Formentera, self-cloned like Pando, stands out for its age, estimated at 200,000 years.

A few billion years ago, all forms of life on earth are unicellular. They lived that way for ages. But they don't have to stay that way. Being multicellular allows organisms to survive on more various environmental conditions.

[alancalverd]

I doubt that. Some bacteria are remarkably resilient. Dried yeast can sit in a cupboard for years and reproduce as soon as it encounters any water and sugar.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

I doubt that. Some bacteria are remarkably resilient. Dried yeast can sit in a cupboard for years and reproduce as soon as it encounters any water and sugar.

Most bacteria die when exposed to UV light. They have better chance to survive if they form biofilm. The dead bodies of those on the outer layer blocks the light and protect those in inner layers.

I don't think that any living organisms can survive when they are drowned in a dying star.

[alancalverd]

Most bacteria die when exposed to UV light.

UVC, certainly. Also lethal to humans, whose outer biofilm is also dead.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Most bacteria die when exposed to UV light.

UVC, certainly. Also lethal to humans, whose outer biofilm is also dead.

Fortunately, humans, like many other animals, can go to places safer from UV exposure. Thanks to the locomotion provided by some of their cells. This shows an advantage of being multicellular.