[Kryptid]

Maybe the suns direction and relative angle .

The cesium was inside of a clock which was inside of an insulated, pressure-sealed airplane. The Sun isn't going to do anything to it.

[guest39538]

Maybe the suns direction and relative angle .

The cesium was inside of a clock which was inside of an insulated, pressure-sealed airplane. The Sun isn't going to do anything to it.

The Sun emits fields.   

I am not sure, I can show there is no time dilation, I can provide enough using time Planck etc to show why there is no length contraction or time dilation.

However I do not really know what ''force'' affects the frequency. That is why I say generally a change in entropy.  That being the only possible thing that can cause a lesser output.

[Kryptid]

The Sun emits fields.   

That's irrelevant because a subsequent experiment performed by a research group at the University of Maryland performed a similar time dilation experiment aboard aircraft and put their clocks inside of containers specifically designed to shield them against vibrations, magnetic fields and temperature variations. It too confirmed time dilation. So there goes your temperature theory. Gravitational time dilation has been demonstrated without using airplanes at all and only by putting clocks at different altitudes (such as on a mountain).

I am not sure, I can show there is no time dilation, I can provide enough using time Planck etc to show why there is no length contraction or time dilation.

You've done nothing of the sort.

However I do not really know what ''force'' affects the frequency. That is why I say generally a change in entropy.  That being the only possible thing that can cause a lesser output.

With clocks shielded against external effects, this is irrelevant.

[guest39538]

The song is playing slower because I am inputting less energy into the motor by turning the speed down.

Something is telling me because when an object is in motion it is gains less energy from the inertia body by the rules and laws of thermodynamics.

[guest39538]

You've done nothing of the sort.

Yes I have

added- Timing dilation is caused by the change of mass of the inertia frame. I.e the earth has more mass than the aeroplane.

[Kryptid]

The song is playing slower because I am inputting less energy into the motor by turning the speed down.

Something is telling me because when an object is in motion it is gains less energy from the inertia body by the rules and laws of thermodynamics.

Now you're speaking gibberish. That also doesn't explain why clocks run faster on the top of mountains.

Yes I have

What you did was make claims without providing evidence.

[guest39538]

What you did was make claims without providing evidence.

I provided evidence i used chronology and geometric points, I also used tP .  Quite clearly you do not understand perfect logic.

[Kryptid]

I provided evidence i used chronology and geometric points, I also used tP

And you used it to come up with nonsense. If time went infinitely fast, then all events would happen simultaneously because there would be literally no periods of time separating events from each other. Time goes by at a very finite pace.

Quite clearly you do not understand perfect logic.

You haven't been using "perfect" logic. Logic is a way of thinking that is informed by evidence gained from the world around us. The reason we consider a particular thing to be logical is because it is consistent with our experience of the world. Reality tells us how logic works, and sometimes you can do that the other way around (use logic to tell you how reality works). If reality and logic are at odds with each other, however, then reality is the obvious winner and it means that your logic needs to be corrected. Your proposed explanation doesn't fit the evidence so reality is saying that your logic is wrong.

[guest39538]

hat also doesn't explain why clocks run faster on the top of mountains.

Ok try this, at ground level gases and the ground is denser than up there.    The ground and the gases (denser fields)    sucks on the atom at a rate.

When the atom is in motion or  higher up, the ground and the gases are less dense so suck less. So the flow slows down. Entropy like i said

[guest39538]

You haven't been using "perfect" logic. Logic is a way of thinking that is informed by evidence gained from the world around us.

All of a sudden I can not see nor can I experience time passing me by.  I look at the world around me and that's why I know. 

I have perfect logic, I narrow it down to perfection. 

I.e Your next now ,  is a negligible (so small or unimportant as to be not worth considering) length away from now. 

The reason we consider a particular thing to be logical is because it is consistent with our experience of the world.

What is consistent when considering time is that it is not discrete , it is continuous.  In reality and the normal world times goes

01

In Einsteins head time goes

0...........1

Strangely enough in the real world version of time, there is no length to contract and nothing to dilate.

If any of the readers are still not convinced, here is a little experiment to do with a friend.


Method.

1) Sit on a chair facing your friend who is also sitting on a chair.

2) Decide which one of you will count slow and which one of you will count fast.

3) Both start to count after 3,2,1, go

Result .

One of you will finish counting first.

One of you will be waiting for the other one to finish .

Conclusion,

You both have just been measuring the amount of time you sat there by counting the time passing by. 

Did the person counting slow experience less time? Of course not .

For those who understand time dilation will understand and agree with what I have just shown.

[Kryptid]

Ok try this, at ground level gases and the ground is denser than up there.    The ground and the gases (denser fields)    sucks on the atom at a rate.

When the atom is in motion or  higher up, the ground and the gases are less dense so suck less. So the flow slows down. Entropy like i said

"Sucks"? You're just pulling stuff out of thin air in an attempt to shoehorn the evidence into your bizarre, unsupported model. How is an atom moving supposed to make the gases or the ground around it less dense? You do also realize that movement slows down time, whereas higher altitude away from a source of gravity speeds it up, right? They have opposite effects.

Remember, all of the effects that you are invoking not only have to explain why it only looks like time dilation is happening, but also have to explain it numerically to the degree that it is observed. Yet you think that various different forces of nature (temperature, fields, etc.) all conspire to make it look like Einstein's mathematical predictions were spot-on when in fact they were not. That sounds like a supernatural level of conspiracy.

All of a sudden I can not see nor can I experience time passing me by.  I look at the world around me and that's why I know. 

I have perfect logic, I narrow it down to perfection.

That sounds like something you made up. Or something that someone else made up that you grasped onto. Reasoning devoid of testable evidence is not trustworthy.

I.e Your next now ,  is a negligible (so small or unimportant as to be not worth considering) length away from now.

 

If there is any duration of time, no matter how small between two moments of "now", then time does not flow infinitely fast and your argument is dead. So is the duration from one moment to the next truly zero or some value larger than zero?

The reason we consider a particular thing to be logical is because it is consistent with our experience of the world.

What is consistent when considering time is that it is not discrete , it is continuous.

By that reasoning, the ancients would have been justified in concluding that matter is not discrete but is continuous down to increasingly tiny levels because you can cut any visible portion of matter down into smaller and smaller pieces. When we discovered atoms, we showed that what appeared to be true to the human eye and intuition was wrong (notwithstanding that a few people did predict atoms a long time before they were discovered)

In reality and the normal world times goes

01

In Einsteins head time goes

0...........1

Whether time is quantized or continuous is still debated by the physics community. Either one works for time dilation.

Strangely enough in the real world version of time, there is no length to contract and nothing to dilate.

Length contraction is an inevitable result of the speed of light in a vacuum being a constant for all observers regardless of their motion relative to the beam of light. In order for a beam of light moving away from a moving observer and a beam moving towards the observer to have identical measured speeds, distances must contract in such a way that the measurements will be equal. Tell me how two such observers moving in different directions will agree on the speed of a particular beam of light without invoking length contraction?

If any of the readers are still not convinced, here is a little experiment to do with a friend.

Method.

1) Sit on a chair facing your friend who is also sitting on a chair.

2) Decide which one of you will count slow and which one of you will count fast.

3) Both start to count after 3,2,1, go

Result .

One of you will finish counting first.

One of you will be waiting for the other one to finish .

Conclusion,

You both have just been measuring the amount of time you sat there by counting the time passing by. 

Did the person counting slow experience less time? Of course not .

You're comparing apples to oranges. Time dilation is not about comparing two processes which are intentionally set up to occur at different rates from each other in the same reference frame, it's about comparing two processes which are known to occur at the same rate in the same reference frame and then putting them into different reference frames to see if a difference arises.

For those who understand time dilation will understand and agree with what I have just shown.

I understand time dilation as it is understood by physicists and I disagree.

I can see quite clearly that the "I can't be wrong" syndrome is still very much present within you.

[evan_au]

This discussion appears to be going around in circles, with no learning taking place.

I'll save the internet's electrons and the photons for more useful purposes by locking this thread now.

           Evan (moderator)

[evan_au]

PS: Here is a short summary of the conventional ideas, by Dr Karl (1 page):
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2005/05/31/1360804.htm