[Yusup Hizirov (OP)]

It isn't a complicated question I'm asking.
what evidence do you have

1. In the Atlantic Ocean from east to west, to the Gulf of Maine, a tidal current or tidal wave moves and at what speed.
2. How to explain the fact that in southwest Australia in the port of Fremantle the tides are part of the year significant, and then disappear.
3. Why abnormally high tides are formed only on the northern and southern shores of the seas and oceans and not on the eastern.
4. Why are tidal waves moving strictly along the perimeter of lakes, seas and oceans, and not from east to west, following the Moon?
5. As the current of the western winds manages to move from west to east, at a speed of 5 km / h, wiping the ocean floor, while the tidal wave flows from east to west at a speed of 800 km / h, wiping the ocean floor.
6. Why is not tidal current used to move ships from east to west.
7. It is believed that the cause of the second hump is the barycenter.
And what is the cause of the solar second hump?
8. As long as the tidal wave makes one revolution around the Earth, the Moon makes two turns, how is the gravitational connection between the Moon and the tidal hump?
9. Tidal forces have been used successfully to date, as a plug from many of the mysteries of nature.
In fact, they exist only theoretically, but practically, they have not been fixed by any gravimetric device.
Acceleration of free fall at the equator is less than at the poles: at the equator is 978 gal, and at the poles - 983 gal.
There is no data on the fluctuation of tidal forces, if there were fluctuations, then there would be data.
10. The way to refute the whirlpool theory is to show coves and bays where there are fast rotating whirlpools, but there are no abnormally high tides.
11. Frequently Asked Questions Concerning Tides:
http://mypages.iit.edu/~johnsonpo/smart00/lesson4.htm#tidefaqs

[Yusup Hizirov (OP)]

The vortex theory of tides can be easily verified by the connection between the height of the tidal wave and the rotation speed of the whirlpools.
The list of seas with an average swirl speed of more than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of more than 5 cm:
Irish Sea, North Sea, Barents Sea, Baffin Sea, White Sea, Bering Sea, Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Arabian Sea, Sargasso Sea, Hudson Bay, Maine Bay, Gulf of Alaska. etc..

The list of seas with an average swirl speed of less than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of less than 5 cm:
The Baltic Sea, the Greenland Sea, the Black Sea, the Sea of ​​Azov, the Caspian Sea, the Chukchi Sea, the Kara Sea, the Laptev Sea, the Red Sea, the Marmara Sea, the Caribbean Sea, the Sea of ​​Japan, the Gulf of Mexico, etc.
Note: The height of the tidal wave (soliton) and the amplitude of the tides is not the same.

[Yusup Hizirov (OP)]

Tides and ebbs are formed not along the entire coast of the seas and oceans, but only in those coasts where the high angular velocity of the currents (1-5 km / h).
On the rectilinear coasts, where currents do not have angular velocity, tides and ebbs do not form.
With an increase in the angular velocity of the current in the north of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, the height of the tides in the Penzhina Bay increases to 12 meters.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/41.png
With an increase in the angular velocity of the current in the north of the Gulf of Maine, the height of the tides in the Bay of Fundy rises to 18 meters.
http://www.gulfofmaine-census.org/wp-content/images/circulation/fig4.jpg
"Record high tide in the Bay of Fundy - 21.6 meters - occurred only once in the history of observations, on the night of October 4 to October 5 in 1869 under the influence of the cyclone Saxby Gale."
On the night of October 4 to 5, in 1869, under the influence of the cyclone Saxby Gale, "a record rainfall fell over the river basins flowing into the Bay of Fundy (300 mm in one day), so that the waters of the Bay of Fundy poured into the Gulf of Maine and increased the speed of rotation a whirlpool in the Gulf of Maine.
http://www.gulfofmaine.org/ebm/toolkitsurvey/images/exec-sum-2.jpg
Cyclone Saxby Gale rotating counter-clockwise, also contributed to the unraveling of the whirlpool.
In an abnormally cold winter and during a drought, when rivers flowing into the Bay of Fundy merge, the height of the tides does not exceed 1 meter.

[Yusup Hizirov (OP)]

According to the lunar theory of tides, the earth's crust at the latitude of Moscow, with a frequency of two times a day, rises and falls with an amplitude of about 20 cm, at the equator the swing of oscillations exceeds half a meter.
Then why, the highest tides are formed in the temperate zones and not at the equator?
The highest tides on Earth are formed in the Fandi Bay in North America - 18 m, at the mouth of the Severn River in England - 16 m, in the Bay of Mont-Saint-Michel in France - 15 m, in the mouths of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Penzhinskaya and Gizhiginskaya - 13 m , at the cape Nerpinsky in the Mezensky Bay - 11 m.
The swirling theory of tides explains this inconsistency by the absence of whirlpools at the equator, as well as cyclones and anticyclones.
To form whirlpools, cyclones and anticyclones, the deflecting force of Coriolis is needed. At the equator, the Coriolis force is minimal and in the temperate zones, it is maximal.
And another question: in the ocean there are two humps

[evan_au]

List of Questions

I can only address a few of your questions from general knowledge, so here goes...

2. How to explain the fact that in southwest Australia in the port of Fremantle the tides are part of the year significant, and then disappear.

In fact, this happens everywhere, just with different amplitude and timings in different places.
There is a peak tide, which occurs about 3-7 days after the Sun and Moon line up. Then there is also a low-tide period abut 2 weeks later.
This can be complicated by other tidal drivers that are more significant in some places than in others, due to local resonance effects.

3. Why abnormally high tides are formed only on the northern and southern shores of the seas and oceans and not on the eastern.

Mont St Michel (included in your list below) is on the eastern side of the Atlantic.
Alaska (included in your list below) is on the eastern side of the North Pacific.
Colombia is on the eastern side of the equatorial Pacific.

4. Why are tidal waves moving strictly along the perimeter of lakes, seas and oceans, and not from east to west, following the Moon?

This was only true in the days when tides were measured on the shore.
Now, with radar satellites, we can measure tides moving in the middle of the ocean.

5. As the current of the western winds manages to move from west to east, at a speed of 5 km / h, wiping the ocean floor

I am not sure what you mean by "current of the western winds"; are you talking about winds, or ocean currents?
The Gulf Stream is an ocean current of warm water that flows from the Gulf of Mexico towards the UK.
This was used to assist sailing ships traveling from the Americas back to Europe.

, while the tidal wave flows from east to west at a speed of 800 km / h, wiping the ocean floor.

Note that in English, "tidal wave" has two distinct common meanings, both of them somewhat misleading: One is a sudden wave created by an undersea earthquake, the other (wrongly) imagines that the tide is a wave which propagates around the world. It is probably better to use:
- "Tsunami" (a Japanese word) for earthquake waves
- "Tide" for the second one (I have used tidal "hump", in an attempt to be descriptive).

It is true that tidal waves (tsunamis) do travel with a speed of around 800km/h in the deep ocean, although that drops to perhaps 80hm/h near the coast.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsunami#Characteristics
What this reference tells you is that once the wavelength of a wave exceeds the depth of water, it's velocity is roughly the same - around 800km/h in deep water.
- This applies to tsunamis (period of a few minutes to a few hours)
- And also the tide (period of a bit over 12 hours in most places)
The circumference of the Earth is about 40,000km, so for the tide to propagate as a wave would take about 50 hours, or about 4 times what is observed. This tells us that the tide does not propagate as a wave, but is driven by the gravity of Moon+Sun.

6. Why is not tidal current used to move ships from east to west.

Because the tide is a passing wave, which produces no net movement of water, and so cannot produce a net movement of shipping.

7. It is believed that the cause of the second hump is the barycenter.
And what is the cause of the solar second hump?

Two mixed-up questions here:
- It presumes that the Sun's gravitation will produce a tidal "hump" which is different from the Moon's tidal hump. In fact, it is the sum of the tidal effects of Sun and Moon that produces a pair of humps, roughly on opposite sides of the Earth (a physicist would describe it as a "vector sum" of the tidal forces). There are not 4 distinct humps, 2 for the Sun and 2 for the Moon.
- It presumes that there is a single barycenter. In fact, there is a barycenter of the Earth-Moon system (which is inside the Earth, and can be ignored when calculating the height of tides driven by the Sun), and a separate Sun-Earth/Moon barycenter (which is inside the Sun, and can be ignored when calculating the height of tides driven by the Moon). The total motion of the Earth and Moon includes the motion around both barycenters.

8. As long as the tidal wave makes one revolution around the Earth, the Moon makes two turns, how is the gravitational connection between the Moon and the tidal hump?

You have this backwards. In most places on Earth, there are 2 tides per day.
The two tidal "humps" pass a given point while the Moon makes one rotation of the Earth.

9. According to the lunar theory of tides, the earth's crust at the latitude of Moscow, with a frequency of two times a day, rises and falls with an amplitude of about 20 cm, at the equator the swing of oscillations exceeds half a meter.
Then why, the highest tides are formed in the temperate zones and not at the equator?

Two mixed-up questions here:
- When we measure tides, we are measuring a difference in height: "sea tide" - "land tide".
- Colombia is on the eastern side of the equatorial Pacific, so extreme tides can occur near the equator, if local resonances are favorable. And Madagascar is not that far from the equator.

The highest tides on Earth are formed in the Fandi Bay in North America - 18 m, at the mouth of the Severn River in England - 16 m, in the Bay of Mont-Saint-Michel in France - 15 m, in the mouths of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Penzhinskaya and Gizhiginskaya - 13 m , at the cape Nerpinsky in the Mezensky Bay - 11 m.

10. Tidal forces have been used successfully to date, as a plug from many of the mysteries of nature.
In fact, they exist only theoretically, but practically, they have not been fixed by any gravimetric device.
Acceleration of free fall at the equator is less than at the poles: at the equator is 978 gal, and at the poles - 983 gal.
There is no data on the fluctuation of tidal forces, if there were fluctuations, then there would be data.

There is such data, see this story from 2016, where researchers were able to measure the daily gravitational tugs of both Sun and Moon, in the basement of their laboratory.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/fossil-fuels/stampsized-gravity-meter-could-have-big-impact-on-oil-exploration

11. The way to refute the whirlpool theory is to show coves and bays where there are fast rotating whirlpools, but there are no abnormally high tides.

An alternative is to show that high tides occur where there are no large whirlpools (tiny whirlpools are inevitable wherever there is turbulence, such as along a coastline).

12. Frequently Asked Questions Concerning Tides:
http:/.../mypages.iit.edu/~johnsonpo/smart00/lesson4.htm#tidefaqs

This web page and it's links seem to present well-described science. You should try reading it, Fermer.

[Bored chemist]

So when the Moon is closest it pulls close.

And on the opposite of the planet there's meant to be an equal outward pull?

Do you understand that the Earth/Moon system is rotating about its centre of gravity?

[Yusup Hizirov (OP)]

Because the tide is a passing wave, which produces no net movement of water, and so cannot produce a net movement of shipping.

This is the correct answer !!!
Question?
In the Atlantic Ocean from east to west, to the Gulf of Maine, a tidal wave moves at what speed.

[Bored chemist]

Because the tide is a passing wave, which produces no net movement of water, and so cannot produce a net movement of shipping.

This is the correct answer !!!
Question?
In the Atlantic Ocean from east to west, to the Gulf of Maine, a tidal wave moves at what speed.

I'm glad you have now accepted that the conventional answer is the correct one.

The top of the tidal bulge moves at something like 1000 miles per hour at the equator (and near zero at the poles).
But it is important to recognise that no water actually moves that fast.

[Yusup Hizirov (OP)]

The top of the tidal bulge moves at something like 1000 miles per hour at the equator (and near zero at the poles).
But it is important to recognise that no water actually moves that fast.

It is very pleasant to see figures and this is the language of facts and practical mechanics

Question?
If the tidal hump moves from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph (this is almost supersonic speed)
And on this video it is so
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=NqDEaFjIXPw
https:/.../youtu.be/pwChk4S99i4

Now we need to find out at what speed from east to west the current flows, at least approximately.
Four tidal hills per day, which move from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph, should create a decent speed.

[evan_au]

Four tidal hills per day

The total tidal effect of Moon (larger) and Sun (smaller) produces a tidal force whose magnitude depends on the vector sum of the tidal force from Sun & Moon.

This vector has a maximum, not 2 maxima.

This single maximum generates 2 hills/humps, not 4.

[Yusup Hizirov (OP)]

The top of the tidal bulge moves at something like 1000 miles per hour at the equator (and near zero at the poles).
But it is important to recognise that no water actually moves that fast.

It is very pleasant to see figures and this is the language of facts and practical mechanics

Question?
If the tidal hump moves from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph (this is almost supersonic speed)
And on this video it is so
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=NqDEaFjIXPw
https:/.../youtu.be/pwChk4S99i4

Now we need to find out at what speed from east to west the current flows, at least approximately.
Two tidal hills per day, which move from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph, should create a decent speed.

As we see in the picture, at the equator in the north and south the current moves from west to east.
All the way around!
https://ru.pinterest.com/pin/279856564317644726/
https://ru.pinterest.com/pin/310537336784446596/

[Bored chemist]

The top of the tidal bulge moves at something like 1000 miles per hour at the equator (and near zero at the poles).
But it is important to recognise that no water actually moves that fast.

It is very pleasant to see figures and this is the language of facts and practical mechanics

Question?
If the tidal hump moves from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph (this is almost supersonic speed)
And on this video it is so
https:/.../m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=NqDEaFjIXPw
https:/.../youtu.be/pwChk4S99i4

Now we need to find out at what speed from east to west the current flows, at least approximately.
Four tidal hills per day, which move from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph, should create a decent speed.

Nonsense.
Which bit of "But it is important to recognise that no water actually moves that fast." did you not understand?

Imagine a planet covered in sand with lots of bricks scattered about it.
I walk round the planet picking up bricks and then putting them back where they were.
Does that create a "current" of bricks?

Incidentally, at sea level, in air at any sensible temperature, 1000 mph is definitely supersonic.
That's pretty good proof that nothing actually moves that fast..
It's like calculating how fast the point of intersection between two blades of a pair of scissors travels.
It moves a lot faster than the blades do- but it's not a "real thing".

[Yusup Hizirov (OP)]

If the tidal hump moves from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph (this is almost supersonic speed)
And on this video it is so
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=NqDEaFjIXPw
https:/.../youtu.be/pwChk4S99i4

According to the lunar theory of tides, the Earth's crust at the latitude of London, with a frequency of twice a day, rises and falls with an amplitude of about 20 cm, at the equator the swing of oscillations exceeds half a meter.
What is the height of the tidal hill at the equator?
Who conducted the measurements and how, or are these figures taken from the ceiling?

[Colin2B]

Galileo called the Moon theory of tides, frivolous, sad return to the realm of mystical ravings and preferred to explain the tides, the rotation of the Earth.

Galileo made some very insightful discoveries, but he also missed making the connection with many others. If he had followed up on the ‘mystical ravings’ we would now be referring to Galileo’s Laws of Gravity. As it was it was left to Newton to make those insights and understand the effect of moon and gravity.

The tidal calendar existed long before the opening of the tidal wave, compiled by the "poke method", as they are today. As there was also a normal calendar up to Ptolemy and after Ptolemy, and to Copernicus, and after Copernicus.

The influence of the Moon on tides was mentioned in Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos as having been derived from ancient observation. Newton recognised the role of the moon and Laplace started the first steps to producing accurate forecasts of tides (not using the inaccurate ‘poke’ methods).

What is the height of the tidal hill at the equator?

You really are missing the point here. The question is not the height of any bulge, but the periodicity of the variation in heights. This periodicity is, as explained previously, the combined effect of Moon and Sun.
Please show your calculations to explain spring and neap tides and their exact periodicity.

[rmolnav]

It SURPRISES me this thread carries on. Two different phenomena are being discussed, and frequently mixed up due to that … kind of playing both football (soccer) and rugby on same field … a disaster !
I already mentioned that fact on #13 (more than 60 more posts since then, only two and a half weeks !!!)
“… as I have repeated this very morning on that linked site, that my arguments have always been about root "main" and general ocean tides. What, mainly due to Earth/Moon dynamics (but also to Sun/Moon dynamics) would really happen without local effects, small or rather big. Resonance in water "oscillation" may produce big effects.
And those tides would happen even if Earth did not spin daily, main cause of "whirlpools", as far as I can understand. I have not delved into the existing lot of local cases, but I´ve seen they are very complex, especially on a very long work of NOAA I can´t find now”.
And subsequently, erroneous things are being said, since the proposition of the question.
Long ago when I was a boy, I already realized that, e.g., strongest high tides were always at same time, and when full or new Moon, in Atlantic coast of Spain where I was in summer holiday.
And nowadays, just seeing the Moon in Madrid sky at a certain moment, I can tell how high is the tide at mentioned coast, and also if the tide coefficient is high or low, without any complicated maths or any additional information.
How “on Earth” the OP can say:
"The gravity of the moon does not reach the Earth”? … (!!!)
Has he never had any experience similar to mine?
I suggest anybody interested to have a look at :

where it´s clearly seen that daily movement of the bulges is only apparent, that they are almost still and it is the solid part of our planet (though also the bulk of ocean waters due to friction) what is actually spinning …
The formation of the bulges is a rather slow process (some 28 days the complete cycle, as far as Moon related tides are concerned, and one full year in the case of Sun related tides) … Nothing to do with all those daily local whirlpools, due to the much faster Earth spin, and with any other local singularity.
NO single local daily phenomenon should be used to try to refute the FACT that Moon and Sun gravitational pulls, together with inertial effects (unveiled by Newton long ago), are the root causes of “globalized” tides. Physical details on how those tides happen can be discussed, because even there is no general agreement on things such as centrifugal forces, and other issues inherent in the complexity of nature ... But mentioned FACT can be seen by everybody, and matches with BASIC physics laws !!! 

[guest39538]

It SURPRISES me this thread carries on. Two different phenomena are being discussed, and frequently mixed up due to that … kind of playing both football (soccer) and rugby on same field … a disaster !
I already mentioned that fact on #13 (more than 60 more posts since then, only two and a half weeks !!!)
“… as I have repeated this very morning on that linked site, that my arguments have always been about root "main" and general ocean tides. What, mainly due to Earth/Moon dynamics (but also to Sun/Moon dynamics) would really happen without local effects, small or rather big. Resonance in water "oscillation" may produce big effects.
And those tides would happen even if Earth did not spin daily, main cause of "whirlpools", as far as I can understand. I have not delved into the existing lot of local cases, but I´ve seen they are very complex, especially on a very long work of NOAA I can´t find now”.
And subsequently, erroneous things are being said, since the proposition of the question.
Long ago when I was a boy, I already realized that, e.g., strongest high tides were always at same time, and when full or new Moon, in Atlantic coast of Spain where I was in summer holiday.
And nowadays, just seeing the Moon in Madrid sky at a certain moment, I can tell how high is the tide at mentioned coast, and also if the tide coefficient is high or low, without any complicated maths or any additional information.
How “on Earth” the OP can say:
"The gravity of the moon does not reach the Earth”? … (!!!)
Has he never had any experience similar to mine?
I suggest anybody interested to have a look at :

where it´s clearly seen that daily movement of the bulges is only apparent, that they are almost still and it is the solid part of our planet (though also the bulk of ocean waters due to friction) what is actually spinning …
The formation of the bulges is a rather slow process (some 28 days the complete cycle, as far as Moon related tides are concerned, and one full year in the case of Sun related tides) … Nothing to do with all those daily local whirlpools, due to the much faster Earth spin, and with any other local singularity.
NO single local daily phenomenon should be used to try to refute the FACT that Moon and Sun gravitational pulls, together with inertial effects (unveiled by Newton long ago), are the root causes of “globalized” tides. Physical details on how those tides happen can be discussed, because even there is no general agreement on things such as centrifugal forces, and other issues inherent in the complexity of nature ... But mentioned FACT can be seen by everybody, and matches with BASIC physics laws !!! 

Thank you for sharing that video, I do not want to ruin this thread with my science so I will step back out.  But I will leave you with this:

The Natural ''flow'' of the ocean is East to West   ←   The Moon pulls the natural ''flow'' the opposite way →

When the Moon ''let's go'' , the ocean returns to it's normal ''flow''.

Ok im out , sorry for intruding. Apologies for posting in other peoples thread.

[guest39538]

Here, have a picture .


moon1.jpg (44.41 kB . 1049x528 - viewed 2434 times)

[opportunity]

If I can help, may I highlight the following.

The Moon revolves around this planet.

The planet "spins".

The spin of the planet is at a greater rotation than the Moon around the planet.

The tidal movement is only a few metres, yet adjusted to the Moon.

Of course there would be a pull of the planet to the Moon closest to the Moon, and this is accommodated by a high tide closest to the Moon.

Yet the Earth is a whirlpool of its own, spinning faster that the Moon rotates around the Earth.

So.....for that spin and its own whirlpool to be balanced needs a counterweight high tide on the opposite face of the Earth facing the Moon, right?

I'll refer to this same question again as quoted.

Working out the physics of why there are two tides a day, one on one side of the planet facing the moon, the other on the other side, taking tides are a liquid phenomena, not necessarily stuck like rock to rock, as the planet spins faster than the Moon rotates around it, and both these bodies are "in harmony", maybe the problem of explaining this is how gravity works according to contemporary theory?

 

[opportunity]

I think we're not thinking out-there enough.

How do liquids separate from solids, and by what tension of viscosity do liquids act like solids, and under what temperature variations, for instance.....

[rmolnav]

The Natural ''flow'' of the ocean is East to West 

Apologies for posting in other peoples thread.

Come on! I always thought all threads are "own" by all of us ... as long as we have something reasonable to say (or at least we honestly think it is reasonable).
 What do you mean with "natural" flow? Just to try and analyze its cause, and consider the rest of what you have "left" me/us with ...