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  4. Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres

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Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #200 on: 30/05/2018 20:02:57 »
Quote from: Fermer05 on 30/05/2018 14:05:51
And the real reason for this inconsistency is the giant whirlpool,
You keep telling me about this whirlpool.
Do you mean this sort of thing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #201 on: 31/05/2018 09:04:00 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 30/05/2018 20:02:57
Do you mean this sort of thing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre
Correctly!
http://goo.gl/eYVTo6
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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #202 on: 31/05/2018 13:45:10 »
If I spun myself around quickly enough, am I going to get a better chance of realising the topic?
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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #203 on: 01/06/2018 14:23:21 »
So where is the best place to swim.....full or new moon?
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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #204 on: 02/06/2018 02:42:31 »
Does the Van Allen radiation belt have mass that can affect the tidal force or axial tilt?

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #205 on: 02/06/2018 15:29:02 »
No, and that's why gravity works......a rim of debris between the Earth and the Moon.

The Moon is Earth's saviour when it comes to debris.....if there's a near shot headed for Earth the pull of the Moon is directing it away from Earth towards itself.....so in time we have the Van Allen radiation belt.....a region of mass, particles......presumably from the Sun.

To say tides are the result of Earth born whirlpools, it sort of makes the idea of "new theory" very very "light", right?
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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #206 on: 02/06/2018 18:56:23 »
Quote from: opportunity on 02/06/2018 15:29:02
To say tides are the result of Earth born whirlpools, it sort of makes the idea of "new theory" very very "light", right?
I suppose that is close .
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #207 on: 02/06/2018 21:09:38 »
Many thanks to the creator of this forum, the moderators and my friends, for the opportunity to speak and be heard, which is extremely important to the farmer from the outback.
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Offline Colin2B

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #208 on: 03/06/2018 06:51:05 »
Quote from: Thebox on 02/06/2018 02:42:31
Does the Van Allen radiation belt have mass that can affect the tidal force or axial tilt?
Being made up of charged particles its mass is very, very small, too small to have any influence on tides. Also it doesn’t change with any periodicity that coincides with the tides.

Quote from: Fermer05 on 02/06/2018 21:09:38
Many thanks to the creator of this forum, the moderators and my friends, for the opportunity to speak and be heard, which is extremely important to the farmer from the outback.
You’re welcome. This section of the forum was created so folks can air a non-standard theory. Your’s certainly generated a lot of interest even though very few agree with you.
I think you do need to work on developing your calculations so you have a testable theory.
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Offline rmolnav

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #209 on: 04/06/2018 11:25:34 »
Again: what the OP is talking about is NOT the quite regular phenomenon we call tides, generally with two high and two low tides every app. 24 hours and 50 minutes, "curiously" the time it takes the MOON to repeat its position in the sky ...(Moon´s gravity doesn´t reach Earth ??). And with another cycle in their intensity of app. 28 days, with two maxima and two minima clearly connected to Sun-Moon relative position (neither Sun´s gravity affect tides ??) ...
They are JUST LOCAL tides, due to LOCAL phenomena, and not as regular as global tides, and theit existence doesn´t mean the OP is right in what he says ...
In one of the sites linked by him, headed:
"SEASONAL increase in the level of the waters of the seas and oceans",
one can read:
"Waters of lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise,
and the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming giant whirlpools.
The MAIN REASON for the rotation of the whirlpools are, LOCAL WINDS, flowing into the seas
and oceans of the river AND the deflecting force of CORIOLIS.
And the higher the speed of the winds, the higher the rotation speed of the whirlpools,
and as a consequence, the higher the centrifugal force of the whirlpools, thereby raising
the level of the waters of the seas and oceans.
And the lower the rotation speed of the whirlpools, the lower the water level of the seas
and oceans ..."
Should we also call "tide" the water level surge when a hurricane? ... We could, but we would talking RUBBISH if we discussed their causes mixing up those phenomena !! 
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #210 on: 04/06/2018 15:13:33 »
I think this video explains tide well. The title is "What Physics Teachers Get Wrong About Tides!"
The summary is that difference of gravitational force between nearest and furthest point on earth in earth-moon axis is too small to be the main cause of tidal bulge. Instead it is caused by the accumulation of forces on points outside of earth-moon axis.
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Offline rmolnav

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #211 on: 05/06/2018 07:52:39 »
link=topic=73127.msg543936#msg543936 date=1528121613]
The summary is that difference of gravitational force between nearest and furthest point on earth in earth-moon axis is too small to be the main cause of tidal bulge. Instead it is caused by the accumulation of forces on points outside of earth-moon axis.[/quote]
Thank you for your summary, but you have been too benevolent when watching and listening to that video.
The author explains that "accumulation of forces" (?) happens through a kind of hydraulic mechanism, that "squeezes" the oceans and mainly due to that the bulges are formed ... Rubbish !!
I´m pretty sure squeezing, if any, is quite negligible:
1) The active agent of the supposed hydraulic device would act on a relatively very small surface: a very narrow "belt" 90º away from sublunar point, less than 5º worth (Moon - Earth distance is app. 60 times the radius of Earth, and all pulls are almost parallel). On the rest of sea surface radial component of Moon´s pull are outwards, suctioning rather than squeezing !!
2) On that small area, where there is an inward component of Moon pull, the difference between that pull and required centripetal force for revolving is close to null: almost no "spare" pull, and therefore no tidal force.
3) And inward component of that difference is app. that tiny value divided by 60 ...
Quite NEGLIGIBLE compared to other intervening factors !!
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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #212 on: 06/06/2018 09:23:30 »
That may be true, yet have you heard of the idea of "mechanical resonance"? The idea is one of repeated juxtapositions of harmonic vibration that lead to far greater effects. I think Tesla presented this idea with his "earthquake maker" device. I also think Mythbusters did a segment on it, with surprising results.

If there is no mechanical resonance between the Moon and Earth after so many years of their association, well, we're not really looking outside the square are we, right?

Let me ask this question; "if there was no moon would the Earth still be what it is"?

If this forum is a puppet show in a certain and hopefully limited regard, I can't help but think a puppet has descended from the higher eschelons of forum authority to make the "new ideas" segment something bordering on the ridiculous, right? The section is deliberately called "light", yet new ideas are what makes science evolve to greater domains, righty right?

« Last Edit: 06/06/2018 09:39:45 by opportunity »
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Offline rmolnav

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #213 on: 06/06/2018 18:25:47 »
Quote from: opportunity on 06/06/2018 09:23:30
Let me ask this question; "if there was no moon would the Earth still be what it is"?
No way!
- Moon rotation is supposed to make more stable the movement of the couple around the Sun.
- The tilt of the axis of Earth spinning is supposedly due to same collision that originated the Moon.
If no tilt, no seasonal anual cycle.
- What above is not 100% sure, but what follows is. Initially Earth was spinning at much faster pace: days as short as 6 or 7 hours ... That enormeous pace has been continuously reducing thanks to Moon-Éarth dynamics. If no Moon, that reduction would have been much, much slower (thanks to the Sun). 
- And Moon was as much as app. 10 times closer ...Tides were unbelievable huge, and enormous amount of minerals were draft from continents to the oceans, what originated the "primordial soup" where life started ... No Moon, no life. Or at least life would now be much, much less "advanced" ...
WE WOULDN´T BE HERE !   
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #214 on: 09/06/2018 08:27:20 »
The waves of the killer are the result of the activity of the whirlpools.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave
A tidal wave moving across the ocean is called a soliton.
https://goo.gl/images/URBn32
When a soliton collides with the coastline of the continent, tides develop. In the collision of solitons of two adjacent whirlpools, a wave of murderer is formed.
This can be checked by throwing two stones into a bath with water at the same time, in the collision of solitons, the emerging wave of the killer foams and a larger wave pulls a smaller wave a little.
You can create a half-meter wave killer, lasting 0.5 seconds, if two divers are simultaneously jumped "bomb" into the reservoir from a height of 2 meters, with a distance between them 3 meters.
If you throw two sugars in a glass of tea at the same time and there is a wave of a killer.
The mechanism of tidal wave formation in rivers and waves of killers in the oceans is similar.
And the height of the tidal wave in the river depends on the speed of water flow in the river
https://goo.gl/images/Tm13py
https://goo.gl/images/amdjwj

The location of the possible emergence of waves of assassins can be predicted, from the maps of whirlpools and, accordingly, to lay routes.
Approaching a wave killer or tsunami, you can partially neutralize, creating a series of counter waves, torpedoes or shells.
If two waves do not collide with one another, they freely walk across the ocean and they are called solitons or waves of Rossby.
"Three sisters is a collision of a soliton with three storm waves."

Solitons spread around themselves by whirlpools, colliding with storm waves, create a wave of the killer and are the main cause of wreck of the ships. And knowing the schedule of the distribution of solitons by eddies, you should choose the time and route of movement in the seas and oceans accordingly. The perimeter of the seas and oceans, I believe, is the most dangerous place for parking and moving ships, especially where there is a high swirl speed.
The whirlpool center, I believe, is the safest place to weather the weather, and in the center of the whirlpool, it is advisable to install a buoy.

Rotating around the Earth, the Moon hump would have to crash into the Sun hump, at a speed of 100 km. at an hour, which would give rise to a wave of a killer, of fantastic height and width.

In mountain lakes, partially blown by winds, after long winds, underwater or surface whirlpools often arise, and as a result tides, waves of the killer, seiches (Lake Baikal, Lake Verkhnee) are formed ..

http://goo.gl/7TBFcM
The map shows areas, the most frequent occurrence of waves of assassins.
In the North Atlantic, the waves of the killer are formed along the perimeter of the North Atlantic planetary maelstrom, as a result of a tidal wave collision, with storm waves (three sisters) ..

http://goo.gl/THgCE4
The animation shows how in the Bermuda Triangle region, as a result of a collision of tidal waves created by the North Atlantic and South Atlantic planetary swirls, a wave of assassin is formed ..

The clock set on the animation shows that the waves of the killer in the Bermuda Triangle are formed twice a day, at 12 and 24 hours.
Based on the demonstrated animation, you can create a calendar for the formation of waves of assassins, not only for future years, but also for the previous ones.
« Last Edit: 10/06/2018 10:59:01 by Yusup Hizirov »
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #215 on: 14/06/2018 06:19:52 »
Quote from: opportunity on 06/06/2018 09:23:30
That may be true, yet have you heard of the idea of "mechanical resonance"? The idea is one of repeated juxtapositions of harmonic vibration that lead to far greater effects. I think Tesla presented this idea with his "earthquake maker" device. I also think Mythbusters did a segment on it, with surprising results.

If there is no mechanical resonance between the Moon and Earth after so many years of their association, well, we're not really looking outside the square are we, right?

Let me ask this question; "if there was no moon would the Earth still be what it is"?

If this forum is a puppet show in a certain and hopefully limited regard, I can't help but think a puppet has descended from the higher eschelons of forum authority to make the "new ideas" segment something bordering on the ridiculous, right? The section is deliberately called "light", yet new ideas are what makes science evolve to greater domains, righty right?
No one answered the question of tidal resonance, this is a very important answer:
"Who is the author of the theory of tidal resonance and why this theory is not available on the Internet"?
« Last Edit: 14/06/2018 06:33:43 by Yusup Hizirov »
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
« Reply #216 on: 22/06/2018 11:20:36 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 23/05/2018 03:55:14
The lunar theory of tides is based on:
1. On the blind faith of people, on the printed word.
2. People do not want to think for themselves.
It is believed that the maximum tides are formed in the new moon and the minimum tides are formed in a quadrature.
Has anyone checked this information?
(Minimal tides are formed in a full moon).
« Last Edit: 23/06/2018 20:03:10 by Yusup Hizirov »
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Offline opportunity

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #217 on: 22/06/2018 12:16:02 »
Do we see evidence of rotating planets/satellites with gaseous atmospheres that behave tidally because of their spins?

...Beyond Earth of course....
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Offline rmolnav

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #218 on: 22/06/2018 18:26:35 »
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov on 22/06/2018 11:20:36
(Minimal tides are formed in a full moon).
Utterly wrong.
When full Moon ( a couple of days afterwards, to be more precise), as when new Moon, tidal effects due to the Moon and due to the Sun add up directly, and we have maximum tides.
When new Moon direct pull from Moon and Sun add up, and so do centrifugal (inertial) forces which cause antipodal bulge.
When full Moon, Moon´s direct pull and Sun´s related centrifugal (inertial) forces add up, and so do Sun´s direct pull and Moon´s related centrifugal (inertial) forces.
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Offline Yusup Hizirov (OP)

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Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
« Reply #219 on: 24/06/2018 05:06:43 »
Fluctuation of the amplitude of tides during the month is a rather complex phenomenon of nature and it will be rather difficult to explain it without a model of the solar system.
This is due to the oscillation of the orbital velocity of the earth, and the complex trajectory of the earth's motion in orbit, because of the barycenter.
« Last Edit: 24/06/2018 05:18:54 by Yusup Hizirov »
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