[LB7 (OP)]

I don't need to move in the electric device, the movement is the signal. If I put a continuous voltage from V1, then V2 is alternative. If V1 is alternative, then V2 is AM modulation amplitude. The inductances are like that:

Without any core, I can use the geometry:


de95deq.png (99.75 kB . 987x801 - viewed 2725 times)


With the cores, I need to separate the flux:


de9eq.png (57.5 kB . 811x725 - viewed 2722 times)

With Ngspice, even a sinus source for V2, the sum is not constant:

Code: [Select]

.TITLE Power calculation

* 3 independant cores
* core1: V11+L11+R11+L21, K=1 between L11 and L21
* core2: V12+L12+R12+L22, K=1 between L12 and L22
* core3: L31+R31 connected from L21, L32+R32 connected from L22, L41+R41 connected to V41, K=1 between L41 and L31, K=-1 between L41 and L32, K=-1 between L31 and L32


v11 0 1 SIN(0 20V 100 0 0)
l11 1 2 15mH
r11 2 0 1
v12 0 6 SIN(0 20V 100 0 0)
l12 6 7 5mH
r12 7 0 1

l21 0 11 15mH
l22 0 16 15mH
K1 L21 L11 1
K2 L22 L12 1

l31 0 13 12mH
vd1 13 12 DC 0V
r31 12 11 1
l32 16 18 12mH
vd2 18 17 DC 0V
r32 17 0 1
K3 L31 L32 -1
l41 0 31 5mH
r41 31 32 1
K4 L41 L31 1
K5 L41 L32 -1

*V41 0 32 AM(5 0 20 100 0 0)
V41 0 32 SIN(0 20V 100 0 0)

bsourcepower ps 0 v = abs( v(1)*i(v11))  +abs( v(6)*i(v12)) + abs(v(32)*i(v41))
bloadpower   pl 0 v = abs(v(2,1)*i(v11)) + abs(v(7,6)*i(v12)) + abs(v(11)*i(vd1)) + abs(v(16)*i(vd2)) + abs(v(13)*i(vd1)) + abs(v(18,16)*i(vd2)) + abs(v(31)*i(v41)) + abs(i(v11)*i(v11)) + abs(i(v12)*i(v12)) + abs(i(v41)*i(v41)) + abs(i(vd1)*i(vd1)) + abs(i(vd2)*i(vd2))

.tran 0.01ms 100ms

.control
  run
  write power.raw

  plot (ps-pl)
.endc

.end



ds9.png (17.82 kB . 700x571 - viewed 2684 times)

[LB7 (OP)]

If the amplitude of the current is the rotational velocity, I can design the transformer exactly like the mechanical device, I mean I respect the geometry. But all is fixed, the velocity of the current inside the wire will be like movement in the mechanical device. And I think I need to have a modulation of amplitude for V2 if V1 is a sinus function.

The design is a loop of a wire around A1 like the rotation of the bolt around A1. The bolt is a cylinder, so I can loop the wire like the cylinder of the bolt but in the contrary direction. The bolt is at -30° relatively to the axis A1 (the axis A1 is vertical), so the wire that represents the cylinder of the bolt is at -30° relatively to the vertical. In the mechanical device I move the spring, but here I think I can use the principle of the electricity and change the shape of the signal of V2. V2 is linked to the energy of the loop around A1, so I need to take power from this loop, any method could be used, but I need to respect the angle, so it could be a spire of wire at 30° relatively to the horizontal. I need to move a lot with the spring, √3 when the bolt turns of 1, so the AM modulation must be with a factor √3 relatively to the frequency of V1, so it is like V2 is much faster than V1, so maybe it is better to choose anothers signalslike V1 AM modulation and V2 sinus. I will think about that. The bolt has a torque so I need to add a voltage to the spires that represents the bolt, any method could be used but there is an angle too.



deded9e.png (75.19 kB . 1105x702 - viewed 2664 times)

Or with only one inductance for the bolt around A1 and around itself:


frdd6.png (73.93 kB . 1003x664 - viewed 2625 times)

The mechanical device give only an energy for a transcient duration. So, I need recover the energy from the spiral to repeat the cycle. Even I need to move but I don't recover an energy from that, I need in addition to have something that repeat the initial condition. Maybe an electronic circuit or maybe I can do the job with the signal of V1 and V2. If I think with my mechanical device, and if I rotate in one direction and after in the second like the sinusoidal signal does with the current, I can recover the energy at the next half period. So maybe just the signals are enough to recover the energy.

With the core:


gtg9r.png (98.47 kB . 1130x704 - viewed 2598 times)

[LB7 (OP)]

I think it could be ok with V1=50Hz and V2=100Hz, because when I accelerate the bolt around A1 I need to help the rotation around A1, but in the deceleration I need to attract, so V2 is at the double of the frequency of V1.


frfr5.png (41.47 kB . 618x471 - viewed 2484 times)

V1=sin(x) red color
V2=sin(2*x) or -sin(2x) black color

The inductance L1 can be 2 separated inductances in serial:


dd9d.png (97.87 kB . 1098x694 - viewed 2455 times)

V2 is the double of the frequency of V1 and it could be could because it could be the analogy of the movement of the spring.

Maybe an example of the good function is sin(x^2.53) from 0 to pi/2 and -sin((pi-x)^2.53) from pi/2 to pi:


de9ds.png (32.76 kB . 1127x475 - viewed 2426 times)

Like that I change the frequency on each quarter to have the analogy of the vibration of the spring (if the disk rotates in 2 directions)

v1:  black color, V2: red color:


sd3.png (63.66 kB . 1125x426 - viewed 2426 times)

[LB7 (OP)]

Maybe like that:


ed9s.png (44.71 kB . 1123x423 - viewed 2426 times)

the signal respect :

frequency increases: move in one direction
frequency decreases: move in the other direction

and the spring push in a quarter of period and attract in the other quarter, etc.

The exact power is 1.6055116

It is not a perfect signal. In the worst case I case put a piezoelectric motor or another technology to vibrate the inductance L3 and L2.

Maybe it is easier than I think, like that:


fr55.png (75.02 kB . 1002x765 - viewed 2373 times)

So I can add an iron on L. I mean 2 irons because the bolt around A1 is independant with the rotation around itselft (longitudinal axis of the bolt). On iron for the part of L horizontal (side view) and another iron for the part of L with an angle of 30° relatively of the horizontal:


deds3.png (35.17 kB . 947x393 - viewed 2362 times)

Or more complex:


fd9z.png (111.88 kB . 1024x751 - viewed 2342 times)

Or with only one inductance and one closed iron, 2 sources of voltage:


frr6.png (105.35 kB . 1155x768 - viewed 2325 times)

If the source of voltage is arbitrary, it is possible to have only one source of voltage.

So the device is one core, one inductance, one source of voltage. I need to add only the secondary.

With additional turns :


frcs3.png (123.62 kB . 1197x762 - viewed 2328 times)

[LB7 (OP)]

Like that when the motor gives a clockwise torque on the bolt around itself, the motor gives a counterclockwise torque around A1. V2 with the iron realized that.


rf9f9.png (117.63 kB . 1270x797 - viewed 2304 times)

[LB7 (OP)]

In the mechanical device, the sum of energy is not conserved even the motor don't vibrate, so it could be easier for the signal of V2. But I need to reverse the signal V2 relatively to V1 to create the energy:


hyhh3y.png (94.25 kB . 1111x737 - viewed 2213 times)

The mechanical device is unstable, work only in a transcient duration. Here, the alternative current helps a lot.

Like in the mechanical device, the rotation around A1 lost an energy but the spring wins more, here an energy from V1 is lost but V2 recover an energy. So I don't think I need a secondary. V1 lost 0.75, V2 wins 1, so with the efficiency of the transformer, copper losses, iron losses, it is not so easy to measure. The device must be unstable. So, I need to have a power dissipation in a resistance and measure ri².

If V1 and V2 is the same source of voltage:


dcy.png (34.75 kB . 1033x467 - viewed 2125 times)

The energy is recovered from V2

[LB7 (OP)]

So the transformer has only a primary with 2 inductances L1 and L2 but there is no secondary. The source of voltage recover the energy. I'm not sure about the sign of V2 in reference of V1.


rd6.png (93.57 kB . 1151x561 - viewed 2102 times)


9521.png (169.07 kB . 1163x794 - viewed 2073 times)


95f.png (158.95 kB . 1166x784 - viewed 2044 times)


rffr5.png (173.37 kB . 1163x809 - viewed 2049 times)


dec3.png (196.04 kB . 1167x801 - viewed 2011 times)



de58.png (47.68 kB . 859x665 - viewed 1976 times)

[LB7 (OP)]

Maybe I need to have turns for L2 like that:


olp3.png (172.59 kB . 1151x813 - viewed 1976 times)

[LB7 (OP)]

In the mechanical device I increase the length of the spring more than it would be, the energy comes from F*d. Here, the energy comes from U*I*t, I think I have more current inside the inductance L2 than compared with a standard coil. And the analogy of a displacement is a charge, so more current during a duration.

[LB7 (OP)]

I think i need to move but relatively to the speed of the electricity... And like i have an helix, i need to move really in vertical (side view). Or i need to separate V2, the left part is a sinus function but at right it is sin(pow(x, 2.33)). The left action from the spring acts in standard but the action on the cylinder must move vertically, here maybe it could work with V2. So there is one V1 but two V2.


L1 is connected with V1 in serial with V2. V1 is a sinus function at frequency F. V2 is at frequency 2F, +sinus for the first half period of V1 and - sinus for the second half period of V1.

L2 is coonected with V1 in serial with V3. V3 is like i drew before, sin(pow(x,2.33)), V3 is at 2F


tggt5.png (166.02 kB . 1169x817 - viewed 2031 times)

or:


eduj.png (43.63 kB . 780x472 - viewed 1985 times)

[LB7 (OP)]

Maybe the circuit with V2 must be like that:


g5.png (131.16 kB . 1174x806 - viewed 2084 times)

The helix is realized by the iron, the flux is like the current, Φ=Ni, so it is possible to use the flux like in the helix shape

Maybe L2 can be only on the Iron2.


o96.png (136.53 kB . 1185x816 - viewed 2068 times)

I drew only L5 and L5' but I can have more to recover all the vertical flux and all the rotational flux like that I have the helix.

[LB7 (OP)]

Not easy to have the equivalent of the mechanical helix maybe like that:


dx6.png (128.34 kB . 1090x722 - viewed 2087 times)

It is a motor, not a transformer. I can put the helix inside the rotor, and the distance D is the distance between the stator and the rotor.


cddc3.png (18.17 kB . 951x604 - viewed 2088 times)

[LB7 (OP)]

To have an helix i need to use the electric field and the magnetic field and it is very small in a conductor. So with a particle accelerator like a cyclotron i can have the 2 fields and the helix exists. Need only to apply the mechanical device to that device.


pl3.png (74.12 kB . 1110x828 - viewed 2022 times)


fg7.png (86.52 kB . 1268x788 - viewed 2007 times)



de663.png (107.47 kB . 1250x799 - viewed 1990 times)

Better to increase the frequency: use a quartz to reduce the inductance.

The rotor is on the iron1 not 2 because the bolt moves farther from A1, so it is L1 that must be linked:


ed55.png (107.98 kB . 1227x802 - viewed 1977 times)

It is better to have closed iron always, and change the inductance with transistors and severals coils for L1 that I can set in serial:


ik6.png (126.9 kB . 1021x719 - viewed 1969 times)

If I use a mechanical device to change the length of the inductance L1, the device will have forces of Laplace.

[LB7 (OP)]

The impedance of L1 can change like an helix, if the voltage is constant then the current change like an helix:


dcik.png (144.79 kB . 1096x718 - viewed 1953 times)

Maybe I need a flux linkage between L4 and L1 to realized the function helix:


cfr3.png (146.66 kB . 1096x704 - viewed 1922 times)

But the flux linkage must be between L3 and L1 to realized the helix:


bg5.png (169.34 kB . 1243x821 - viewed 1924 times)

[LB7 (OP)]

I need a capacitor to have the additional rotation. I separate V2 for L3 and L4. V2 is directly connected to L3. But V2 is in serial with a capacitor and in serial with L4.


ju58.png (127.33 kB . 1259x636 - viewed 1891 times)


yh9.png (155.71 kB . 1270x667 - viewed 1883 times)

If I think with only a short time:

V1 is a constant voltage (heaviside step fucnction)
V2 to L4 must be a slope (triangle)
V2 to L3 must be a sinusoide, the length of the curve of a sinusoide is an helix

[LB7 (OP)]

For a single shot:

V1=10v dc, before t=0 V1=10 and after t=0 it is always 10
V2=1 V dc heavyside function

I choose L3 and C to have a resonant circuit, the length of the sinus is an helix.

I don't need to use the transformer with an alternative voltage for V1. I can have a continuous dc voltage for V1. V2 is a heaviside step of voltage. For L4 the current is like a log function but for L3 it is an helix because there is the capacitor. I need to integrate the current to have an helix, so i need to add components.

I can repeat the cycle

[LB7 (OP)]

In fact it is like the helix is the length of the signal, but I think it is relatively to another object, here maybe it is possible to have a sin(x)*exp(-x) function for the voltage on L3 and a length like log(x) in L4, and the difference could be the length of an helix:


gv5.png (72.58 kB . 1155x453 - viewed 1929 times)


frf6.png (114.21 kB . 1375x534 - viewed 1899 times)

[LB7 (OP)]

I think i don't need the capacitor, the resistance of the inductance will be the parameter for the time.

And the solution is not better than the mechanical device due to the losses from the resistance. So it is possible with supra conductors.

Maybe the mechanical device is not so bad. Standard technology. Need only to reduce the pressure of air and have good rolling elements bearing

Maybe it is possible with large section of copper for the inductance.

[LB7 (OP)]

For one cycle:


klo.png (73.62 kB . 1105x359 - viewed 1792 times)

It is possible to reduce the losses of the current if I increase the diameter of the wire of L1 and L2 so it is not a problem with a standard technology.

[LB7 (OP)]

If i need to usea dot where the angular velocity is 0 in the mechanical device, then, i need to have a separate iron for L4


gt887.png (69.58 kB . 1091x433 - viewed 1653 times)