[Kryptid]

This illustrates CLEARLY that for high-energy photons , striking electrons at 180° , the energy transfer amount ( E re max ) does approach 90° !

Yes, the amount of energy transfer changes as the photon energy changes, but that wasn't the point of my calculations. The point was to demonstrate that there is no net change in momentum in such a collision.

As I stated before , photons are NOT matter , and their interactions are "quantum" strange .

No matter how many times you say that, it is irrelevant.

High-energy photons will raise electrons to relativistic speeds , at this point the depleted photons can be dumped overboard ( GLD ! ) .  The wave of high-energy electrons will hit the target HARD , as opposed to the photon launch side , which had neglegible recoil .

My calculations clearly demonstrate that the change in momentum is zero and therefore the recoil on both sides has to be equal. If you are dumping the photons overboard then they can effectively act as thrust and your system is no longer reactionless. If you try to release the photons at a 90 degree angle to the ship in order to eliminate their thrust instead, then the very act of reflecting those photons in the desired direction will transfer some of their momentum to the ship and thus cancel out the momentum contribution of the electrons.

It is fairly easy for even a layman to understand , as long as there's no formula-spouting jerk-water spewing wheelbarrows of BS in their face , so that they get intimidated , and give up !

If my calculations are BS, then show where my error is.

By the way , why the **** are you trying to fool the inventor of this damned thing , are you a masochist , or do you have some rediculous ulterior motive ? 

I'm not trying to fool anyone. Quite the opposite, actually.

[Professor Mega-Mind (OP)]

To : Mr. Dogma ,
I saw something like your post once , it started right at the left rim , ran right down across the drain , then up the right side where it ended , resting right against the rim .  I considered that high-art , sadly , yours isn't doing as well !
Now , to obnoxious business .
 First ; I don't "need" to learn squat ! I just need to design a machine which produces more kinetic impact on one end , than on the other .  I just need to track energy transfers , and voila , imbalance !  The hard part IS the creativity , kind of like creating awesome songs .  It is NOT a matter of applying musical theory ! 
Second : You misrepresent me as usual .  I said "heavier" , not very heavy .  Fractionally heavier will do what I said . 
Third : I specifically began my quest here , in order to find/create a macro version of the Shockwave engine .  I had no preconceptions /prejudices to limit me , but still could not solve that one .  Perhaps someday , but for now , that waits .
Incidentally , I hated low-brow school , and it hated me .  Lot of turd-flingers waiting there . Maybe if I was a dull oaf too !  Anyway , don't crow about the poison-house too much !
Fourth : Light is not billiard balls .  A gigawatt of kinetic energy pumped into a stream of billiard balls would , indeed , knock down buildings .  A GW pumped into a stream of photons NEVER will , no matter how much you jump up screaming about it ! 
  Remember , I had to correct your energy-transfer percentage .  90% is a pretty big number !  There are at least a half-dozen electron- impact architectures , but only ONE energy transfer one ; the "EMR Shockwave Engine" , by yours truly!
P.M.

[Bored chemist]

First ; I don't "need" to learn squat !

Guess again.

I just need to design a machine which produces more kinetic impact on one end , than on the other

Yes, you need to do that- but
(1) you haven't and
(2) it's impossible.

I just need to track energy transfers , and voila , imbalance ! 

When someone tracks them they balance- just as everyone expects.

The hard part IS the creativity

It isn't usefully creative to say " I have a machine that cures cancer because it cures cancer". All you have done is restate the problem: we wish there was a machine that cures it.

Second : You misrepresent me as usual .  I said "heavier" , not very heavy .  Fractionally heavier will do what I said . 

No
The laws of physics, and common sense say that bouncing a light thing off a heavy thing is a poor way to transfer energy.
They don't make bullets out of lead because they like the name.

Third : I specifically began my quest here , in order to find/create a macro version of the Shockwave engine

And it doesn't work.
Sorry about your shattered dream.
If you had learned some physics, you wouldn't have wasted your time.

Perhaps someday ,

No
It will remain a mathematical impossibility.

Incidentally , I hated low-brow school

That explains why you learned so little.

Light is not billiard balls .

Nobody said it was.

A gigawatt of kinetic energy pumped into a stream of billiard balls would , indeed , knock down buildings . 

Yes, because the billiard balls would explode- in all directions and they would push the "gun" back, just as hard as they pushed the house forward (giver or take the pound or so of photon pressure).
It still wouldn't be a reactionless drive,
I already explained that- you remember the ignition facility...?

A GW pumped into a stream of photons NEVER will , no matter how much you jump up screaming about it ! 

Here's a VT video of a about a millionth of that power trashing steel plate

Why don't you think that  a GW would cut through a house?

Remember , I had to correct your energy-transfer percentage .

It's not energy that moves  spaceships, it's momentum.
And, until you understand that we are just going to keep going round in circles.

[Professor Mega-Mind (OP)]

...............Heat vs Impact .
Steel plate approximates house , fine .  Billiard balls approx. photons , nah ! 
 Try out THIS analogy : Two billiard ball launchers are firing 100 fps streams of balls at side-by-side brick buildings .  A special helicopter hovers nearby , and uses a secret weapon to add 1 GW of KE to the right-hand stream of balls .  Which ball-stream bounces off , and which blows it's house apart ?
Difference , I say ! 
P.M.

[Bored chemist]

A special helicopter hovers nearby , and uses a secret weapon to add 1 GW of KE to the right-hand stream of balls

The important question in this context is how much of a recoil does the helicopter experience?
And the answer is "lots".
That's why you can't get a reactionless drive.

[Professor Mega-Mind (OP)]

The helicopter experiences 1 measly , little , pound of recoil !
P.

[Kryptid]

Remember , I had to correct your energy-transfer percentage .  90% is a pretty big number !

You didn't correct me on anything. When the incoming photon energy is 1 keV, the electron does indeed only receive 0.39% of the energy. You must have missed the parts where I said, "So the photon in this instance actually keeps most of its energy" and "the amount of energy transfer changes as the photon energy changes". When the photon energy is 10 keV, the electron receives 3.766% of the energy, when it's 100 keV the transfer is 28.129%, at 1 MeV it's 79.65% and at 10 MeV it's 97.5087%. I never denied such a thing.

As I stated before, the purpose of my calculations was to prove that momentum is conserved. If the propellant doesn't change momentum, then neither can the ship which relies on the propellant for movement.

[Professor Mega-Mind (OP)]

Hidden/Molecular Momentum .
It is unleashed , and transferred , upon mid-flight collision .
Love Reply # 183 .
P.M.

[Kryptid]

How about I calculate the actual thrust produced by the electron cloud/beam then?

Let's start off with a 1 gigawatt X-ray laser.  The energy of each photon is 10 MeV, which is equivalent to 1.60217657 x 10^-12 joules. Since a gigawatt is one billion joules per second, we divide that number by the energy of each individual photon and conclude that the laser produces 6.2415093 x 10²⁰ photons per second.

For simplifying assumptions, we'll say that each photon hits exactly one electron. According to the Compton scattering equation, a photon with an energy of 10 MeV hitting an electron will give that electron a maximum of 9.75087 MeV of energy. The photon then reflects back with 249.13 keV of energy.

An electron with an energy of 9.75087 MeV of energy has a velocity of 299,420,537 m/s and has a relativistic mass of 1.829337 x 10^-29 kg (about 20 times more than its rest mass): https://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1224060366

Since the number of electrons per second flowing through the engine is equal to the number of photons per second, we multiply the relativistic mass by 6.2415093 x 10²⁰ electrons per second. This is equal to a mass flow rate of 1.14178239 x 10^-8 kg/s.

Thrust can be calculated by multiplying velocity by mass flow rate. We can multiply the velocity of the electron beam (299,420,537 m/s) by the mass flow rate (1.14178239 x 10^-8 kg/s) to obtain a thrust of about 3.4187 N). That is about 0.768 pounds of thrust.

The thrust given by a laser beam is equal to the power divided by the speed of light, which for a 1 GW laser would be 1,000,000,000 W / 299,792,458 m/s = 3.3356 N (about 0.75 pounds). At a first glance, it may appear that the electron beam produces slightly more thrust than the laser beam which spawned it. However, you also have to take into consideration the reflected laser beam which is travelling in the opposite direction to the electron beam. Since the electron beam took 97.5087% of the original laser power, the reflected laser beam has 2.4913% of the original laser power. That produces a thrust of only 0.0831 N. When we subtract the reflected laser thrust from the electron beam thrust, we end up with 3.3356 N (0.75 pounds).

So we see from these calculations that the electron beam and the reflected laser beam together produce the same amount of thrust as the original laser beam. So, despite your intuition, the electrons do not hit the receiver harder than the original laser beam would have.

[Bored chemist]

The helicopter experiences 1 measly , little , pound of recoil !
P.

Guess again.

[Professor Mega-Mind (OP)]

...........Calculating Spaghetti
Your calc.s be suspect !
If I take a 1 sq.mtr. of plasma at standard liquid hy. density , and accelerate every electron to .9c , I get a kinetic energy of 25.5 GJ !
That is one helluva shockwave !
P.M.

[Bored chemist]

If I take a 1 sq.mtr. of plasma at standard liquid hy. density ,

Then you have something with units of mass/length.
I'm not sure what that is, but it certainly isn't a number of electrons.

Your calculation makes no sense at all.
If you would like to show some working we can probably point out your mistake for you.

[Kryptid]

...........Calculating Spaghetti
Your calc.s be suspect !

Then show me which step I got wrong. Be specific.

If I take a 1 sq.mtr. of plasma at standard liquid hy. density , and accelerate every electron to .9c , I get a kinetic energy of 25.5 GJ !

What is a "square meter of plasma"? You realize plasma is three-dimensional, don't you?

You also realize that, in order to get 25.5 GJ, a 1 GW laser would have to shine for 25.5 seconds, right? In that case, the total energy released by the laser is equal to the energy in your plasma. If you're implying that the energy in the plasma is somehow more than the energy it received from the laser light, then you are not only trying to break conservation of momentum but conservation of energy as well.

[Bored chemist]

Try out THIS analogy : Two billiard ball launchers are firing 100 fps streams of balls at side-by-side brick buildings .  A special helicopter hovers nearby , and uses a secret weapon to add 1 GW of KE to the right-hand stream of balls .  Which ball-stream bounces off , and which blows it's house apart ?

OK
Let's try.
A billiard ball is about 0.17Kg
100 fps is near enough to 33 m/s (it hardly matters)
Let's say you have a stream of one ball each second. (you didn't specify that, but we can always  redo the maths later if you want to say how many balls you launch each second)

You want to add a GW of power to the balls so each one needs to have 1GJ of energy
so E= 1/2 MV^2
1,000,000,000 = 0.5 *0.17*V^2
(0.17 is about a sixth )
So V^2 = 1000,000,000 *2 *6
V^2 =12,000,000,000

So V is about 110 km/sec
And the momentum transfer is about 1/6 of that for each ball
So that's about 18,500 Kg M/S
And for 1 ball per second  the rate of transfer of momentum is
18,500 Kg M/S/S
And 1 kg M/S/S is 1 Newton
So the force needed to accelerate the balls is 18,500 Newtons or about 1850 Kg

Nearly two tons.

I'm sure there are helicopters that can handle forces like that, but it would be a good idea to warn the pilot.

Would you like to try again- but this time without getting things wrong by a factor of 4000 or so?

Here's an interesting thought; you were "allowed" to put a super mirror on your house. I just want to use a bit of armour- a few inches of steel plate.

That plate has to stand up to an average force of the same two tons or so.
Doesn't sound like a problem.
The peak forces would be tricky. :-)

[Professor Mega-Mind (OP)]

..............." I pity the fool !"
Your average stick of dynamite has ~1MJ in explosive energy .  I'm thinking YOU way off there !  A baseball with 1GJ energy is heavy artillery ! 
Next , I already stated that the recoil is 1 pound average , same as a 1GW laser .  The gigawatt of energy goes into the composition  (heat) of the laser beam , it is normally released upon absorption .  The electron cloud changes that , the energy is put into the kinetic energy of the electrons . WITHOUT significant recoil ! 
In regards to the mirrorized house , the 1GW laser will bounce off , thus inducing 2 pounds of force , NOT two tons !
Alright , I tire of the rediculous mis-representations of this concept .  How's about you stop jabbering , and MAN UP ?  That's right , just admit it has potential !
P.M.

[Kryptid]

That's right , just admit it has potential !

I've already demonstrated that photons colliding with electrons doesn't increase the amount of thrust you get, so your drive does not have potential because it can't move. You still haven't pointed out which part of my calculations are incorrect.

[Professor Mega-Mind (OP)]

The problem isn't calculations , it is design .  You aren't getting how it functions , and it's results . 
Let’s take two 1GW  H.E.X-ray streams .  Both have a launcher-thrust of 1 pound .  You dump a couple of grams of electrons into one of the streams , and although the launcher experiences NO extra recoil , that stream now impacts like a MOAB at the target .  That is a solid differential impact !  If you can't even envision this simple of a mechanical system , you are NOT qualified to  criticize me !  Formulas are just a descriptor , NOT a concept !
P.M.

[Kryptid]

You aren't getting how it functions

If I'm not then it's your fault for not sufficiently describing how it works. Here is how I understand your device:

(1) You start off with a laser shooting high-energy photons.
(2) Those photons undergo Compton scattering off of a cloud of electrons inside the engine.
(3) Most of the energy of those photons is transferred to the electrons, which fly off towards the receiver near the speed of light while the photons reflect back with minimal energy.
(4) The electrons then impact the receiver and impart a force on it.

Is that correct? That's exactly what I took into consideration in my calculations. If one of those steps are wrong, tell me and I will amend the calculations to reflect that.

that stream now impacts like a MOAB at the target

Then you are saying that my calculations are wrong. Telling me that my calculations are wrong without being able to tell me where they are wrong is a sign of denialism. You and I cannot both be correct at the same time. So either my calculations are wrong or your claim that you get extra thrust by putting electrons in the way of a laser beam is wrong. If my calculations are wrong, you should be capable of showing me where the error is. So do it already.

[Professor Mega-Mind (OP)]

......................Grok it !
Your launch recoil should be ~1lb.
Your IMPACT energy should be
 above 2 GJ .
Calculate the kinetic energy of two grams of matter at .9c , then get back to me .
P.M.

[Kryptid]

Obviously I need to understand what it is you want before I can do further calculations.

......................Grok it !
Your launch recoil should be ~1lb.

Agreed.

Your IMPACT energy should be
 above 2 GJ .

The fact that you are expressing this as energy and not power tells me that your engine is not in continual operation. Is that true? You want to operate this until 2 GJ worth of electrons have impacted the receiver and then turn it off?

Calculate the kinetic energy of two grams of matter at .9c , then get back to me .
P.M.

So what you want is for the laser to operate for long enough to give 2 grams worth of electrons a speed of 0.9c and then turn it off?