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  4. How do we measure the energy of a photon?
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How do we measure the energy of a photon?

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Offline mxplxxx (OP)

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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #460 on: 26/07/2019 11:13:24 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 26/07/2019 10:31:18
What they are talking about is-  as the article points out, A Faraday isolator. The novelty is that it's very small- which is interesting.
They are talking about something that is similar to a Faraday Isolator but uses light, rather than magnetism, to produce the diode effects. As the article says:

"In order to produce a strong enough rotation of the light polarization, these kinds of diodes must be relatively large – much too large to fit into consumer computers or smartphones. As an alternative, Dionne and Lawrence came up with a way of creating rotation in crystal using another light beam instead of a magnetic field. This beam is polarized so that its electrical field takes on a spiral motion which, in turn, generates rotating acoustic vibrations in the crystal that give it magnetic-like spinning abilities and enable more light to get out. To make the structure both small and efficient, the Dionne lab relied on its expertise in manipulating and amplifying light with tiny nano-antennas and nano-structured materials called meta-surfaces."

So, a revolutionary way to create a diode from light which will dramatically change the future.
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Offline mxplxxx (OP)

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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #461 on: 06/08/2019 11:14:01 »
Quote from: mxplxxx on 17/07/2019 07:06:04
These are software constructs, and I suspect that the same or very similar relationships will exist in Reality.
Big question. Can we program a software system that mimics the universe and include in it a sentient system that experiences the simulated universe exactly the same way we experience our own universe? Absolutely, I suspect:) Meaning it is not beyond the realms of possibility that we exist in a computer. What advantages could this knowledge give us? For example, could we devise a machine that allows us to time travel for example or travel between universes or talk to our creators or reprogram ourselves (we are close to this anyway)?

Note, a universe in software would allow for a single object to be accessed using multiple reference objects, thus allowing for the seemingly impossible phenomenon of quantum entanglement.

Note we already experience our own universe via a set of computer-like programs in our brain. So much so that we cannot be absolutely convinced via our senses that our universe actually exists. A neural net is just a type of HFSM (Hierarchical Finite State Machine) which is a software/computer construct.

How would I go about writing a program that mimics a universe? I could look at our current universe and program all of its objects/functions. But this would take ages. Or I could program a basic set of functions/objects that could evolve via natural selection and sit back (so to speak) and wait for evolution to do its work. Many are trying to do so.
« Last Edit: 06/08/2019 11:28:29 by mxplxxx »
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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #462 on: 09/08/2019 09:41:38 »
Quote from: mxplxxx on 17/07/2019 07:06:04
Object
    Must Inherit

System
    Inherits Object
    Must  Inherit

Fermion.System
    Inherits System
    Must Inherit
It would seem therefore that the universe contains a basic particle (object) that, possibly,  cannot exist on its own and has no attributes.i.e. it just "exists". Or, maybe it can exist on its own and is the missing "dark matter"?

All other objects in the universe derive from/inherit this object.
« Last Edit: 09/08/2019 13:41:22 by mxplxxx »
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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #463 on: 20/08/2019 01:20:51 »
Quote from: mxplxxx on 09/08/2019 09:41:38
It would seem therefore that the universe contains a basic particle (object) that, possibly,  cannot exist on its own and has no attributes.i.e. it just "exists"
Or maybe it "possibly" exists. i.e. in a qubit state between 0 and 1.  The following recent discovery backs up this possibility (and also provides solid evidence that the universe is a hologram:).

 β€œThe new discovery of topological superconductivity in a two-dimensional platform paves the way for building scalable topological qubits to not only store quantum information, but also to manipulate the quantum states that are free of error,”

https://scienceblog.com/509610/scientists-discover-new-state-of-matter/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+scienceblogrssfeed+%28ScienceBlog.com%29
« Last Edit: 20/08/2019 02:02:45 by mxplxxx »
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Offline Hayseed

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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #464 on: 20/08/2019 01:32:49 »
You can give a photon, 1 watt, or 10 watts.  But after emission, the photon starts decaying.

The energy that you are talking about, is a RATE potential stored in a field pattern.

This rate is preserved, no matter how much the Photon energy has decayed with distance

This rate is the velocity of the torque, or twist, that is put on a charge, when absorbed.

Whether it's a 1 watt, or 10 watt photon........the rate of twist is constant on receiving charge.

Even at great distances.
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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #465 on: 21/08/2019 10:59:22 »
Quote from: mxplxxx on 20/08/2019 01:20:51
β€œThe new discovery of topological superconductivity in a two-dimensional platform p
In some sense, a photon seems to be a two-dimensional particle. The electro and magnetic components of the particle are slices of reality. Actually, particles are points which makes them 1-dimensional in nature (they either exist
or don't exist). In the case of photons two 2-dimensional opposing slices are created when the particle vibrates and 3-dimensional "possibility" space exists in which the photon "may" be found/observed, finally a 4-dimensional spacetime exists in which the photon is born, lives and dies.
« Last Edit: 21/08/2019 11:09:59 by mxplxxx »
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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #466 on: 21/08/2019 11:12:49 »
Quote from: Hayseed on 20/08/2019 01:32:49
You can give a photon, 1 watt, or 10 watts.  But after emission, the photon starts decaying.

The energy that you are talking about, is a RATE potential stored in a field pattern.

This rate is preserved, no matter how much the Photon energy has decayed with distance

This rate is the velocity of the torque, or twist, that is put on a charge, when absorbed.

Whether it's a 1 watt, or 10 watt photon........the rate of twist is constant on receiving charge.

Even at great distances.
Are you referring to the transverse wave motion of a photon? You need to be much much clearer in your posts and supply references.
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Offline Hayseed

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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #467 on: 21/08/2019 11:53:40 »
Please pardon me for posting on this thread.  That's the second time that I have mis-understood a notification.

I thought I was posting to a new thread.

I think the notification link took me to the first post in this thread, instead of the last one.

I try not to join long threads, being not aware of what all has been discussed.

I will try to be more careful.

My understanding of a photon is of the modern classical model.  Not familiar to many.

Not taught as mainstream, but not dead yet.  It satisfies the quantum physics non-believers.
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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #468 on: 21/08/2019 21:54:40 »
Quote from: Hayseed on 20/08/2019 01:32:49
But after emission, the photon starts decaying.

What experiment demonstrated this? Last I looked, all existing evidence points to photons being stable particles with a minimum half-life of 1018 years: https://physicsworld.com/a/what-is-the-lifetime-of-a-photon/

Quote from: Hayseed on 20/08/2019 01:32:49
Whether it's a 1 watt, or 10 watt photon........

That makes no sense. A single photon contains a certain amount of energy, but it doesn't have a power.
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Offline mxplxxx (OP)

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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #469 on: 22/08/2019 03:46:49 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 21/08/2019 21:54:40
That makes no sense. A single photon contains a certain amount of energy, but it doesn't have a power.
You are talking about a photon as a particle. It also exists as an electromagnetic wave. This means the photon vibrates at a certain frequency. The higher the frequency the more powerful the photon.  A gamma wave is more powerful than a Infra-red wave. Energy without an associated time is pretty meaningless.
« Last Edit: 22/08/2019 03:49:44 by mxplxxx »
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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #470 on: 22/08/2019 09:58:22 »
Quote from: mxplxxx on 22/08/2019 03:46:49
You are talking about a photon as a particle. It also exists as an electromagnetic wave. This means the photon vibrates at a certain frequency. The higher the frequency the more powerful the photon.  A gamma wave is more powerful than a Infra-red wave. Energy without an associated time is pretty meaningless.

Okay, so what is the time associated with a 1 keV photon? What is the power?
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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #471 on: 22/08/2019 11:22:18 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 22/08/2019 09:58:22
Okay, so what is the time associated with a 1 keV photon? What is the power?
Neither are applicable to a photon as a particle. As I mentioned a photon is also a wave and you should be easily able to calculate your problem values via E=h/t.
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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #472 on: 22/08/2019 18:58:08 »
Quote from: mxplxxx on 22/08/2019 11:22:18
As I mentioned a photon is also a wave and you should be easily able to calculate your problem values via E=h/t.
If it is easy, why don't you do it and show us what fools we are?
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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #473 on: 23/08/2019 01:50:39 »
Quote from: mxplxxx on 22/08/2019 11:22:18
Neither are applicable to a photon as a particle. As I mentioned a photon is also a wave
Particles are timeless. None of the states associated with a particle in the standard model are time-reliant. For a particle to exist in this time-bound universe it must also exist as a wave. i.e. it can only "acquire" time by comparing itself against another particle (or itself in a past existence) i.e. as per Einstein's relativity. The System object I have described previously in this topic allows an object to exist both as a particle and a wave,

Particles are likely to be the consciousnesses of the systems they belong to. Maybe a ghost is a particle that has lost its system:). Your consciousness is likely to be a system in your brain.

The central object of the central system of the central object for a system is the particle object for the system. e.g. the central object of a solar system is the sun. The sun contains an abstraction hierarchy of systems. The top of this hierarchy  (at the centre of the sun)  is a system object and the central object of this system object is the sun particle. 

The sun particle contains the current state of the sun at its most abstract level. None of this state is time-reliant (as is the case for all particles in all central objects). It is likely this state is a variable (e.g. a combination of quarks) which make a particle very computer-like.

All systems in the universe have this structure/functionality.   

It is possible that we can see/detect particle objects but not the system objects themselves giving rise to dark matter.

In high-gravity systems, the particle objects will likely eventually become black holes.

We exist near the bottom of a sun abstraction hierarchy. This may make our existence pretty volatile. Most of the photons resulting from our actions will not end up affecting the sun particle, but it is possible for some things we do to to end up affecting this particle which then responds with an event that could affect the whole of the sun/evolution.

Photons from diverse sources can accumulate at various higher abstraction levels making the centre of the sun very hot (in fact hot enough to fuse particles).

It is likely the sun particle object can be affected directly via the sun's magnetic field and vice versa. If fact it is possible that magnetic fields are the general way events/photons are distributed in a system.
« Last Edit: 24/08/2019 10:30:04 by mxplxxx »
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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #474 on: 23/08/2019 07:27:18 »
Quote from: mxplxxx on 22/08/2019 11:22:18
As I mentioned a photon is also a wave and you should be easily able to calculate your problem values via E=h/t.

So what is the value of "t"?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #475 on: 23/08/2019 13:24:49 »
Quote from: mxplxxx on 23/08/2019 01:50:39
Quote from: mxplxxx on 22/08/2019 11:22:18
Neither are applicable to a photon as a particle. As I mentioned a photon is also a wave
Particles are timeless. None of the states associated with a particle in the standard model are time-reliant. For a particle to exist in this time-bound universe it must also exist as a wave. i.e. it can only "acquire" time by comparing itself against another particle (or itself in a past existence) i.e. as per Einstein's relativity. The System object I have described previously in this topic allows an object to exist both as a particle and a wave,
You are a likely a timeless particle (your consciousness?) as well as a time-bound human being..

You forgot to answer my (implicit) question and Kryptid's explicit one.
Quote from: Kryptid on 22/08/2019 09:58:22
Okay, so what is the time associated with a 1 keV photon? What is the power?

It's a reasonable enough question.
Why don't you answer it?
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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #476 on: 24/08/2019 09:04:33 »
Quote from: mxplxxx on 23/08/2019 01:50:39
Quote from: mxplxxx on 22/08/2019 11:22:18
Neither are applicable to a photon as a particle. As I mentioned a photon is also a wave
Particles are timeless. None of the states associated with a particle in the standard model are time-reliant. For a particle to exist in this time-bound universe it must also exist as a wave. i.e. it can only "acquire" time by comparing itself against another particle (or itself in a past existence) i.e. as per Einstein's relativity. The System object I have described previously in this topic allows an object to exist both as a particle and a wave,

Particles are likely to be the consciousnesses of the systems they belong to. Maybe a ghost is a particle that has lost its system:). Your consciousness is likely to be a system in your brain.

The central object of the central system of the central object for a system is the particle object for the system. e.g. the central object of a solar system is the sun. The sun contains an abstraction hierarchy of systems. The top of this hierarchy  (at the centre of the sun)  is a system object and the central object of this system object is the sun particle. 

The sun particle contains the current state of the sun at its most abstract level. None of this state is time-reliant (as is the case for all particles in all central objects). It is likely this state is a variable (e.g. a combination of quarks) which make a particle very computer-like.

All systems in the universe have this structure/functionality.   

It is possible that we can see/detect particle objects but not the system objects themselves giving rise to dark matter.

In high-gravity systems, the particle objects will likely eventually become black holes.

We exist near the bottom of a sun abstraction hierarchy. This may make our existence pretty volatile. Most of the photons resulting from our actions will not end up affecting the sun particle, but it is possible for some things we do to to end up affecting this particle which then responds with an event that could affect the whole of the sun/evolution.

Photons from diverse sources can accumulate at various higher abstraction levels making the centre of the sun very hot (in fact hot enough to fuse particles).

It is likely the sun particle object can be affected directly via the sun's magnetic field and vice versa. If fact it is possible that magnetic fields are the general way events/photons are distributed in a system.

A theory of Particles.
« Last Edit: 24/08/2019 10:32:16 by mxplxxx »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #477 on: 24/08/2019 12:16:00 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/08/2019 13:24:49
Quote from: mxplxxx on 23/08/2019 01:50:39
Quote from: mxplxxx on 22/08/2019 11:22:18
Neither are applicable to a photon as a particle. As I mentioned a photon is also a wave
Particles are timeless. None of the states associated with a particle in the standard model are time-reliant. For a particle to exist in this time-bound universe it must also exist as a wave. i.e. it can only "acquire" time by comparing itself against another particle (or itself in a past existence) i.e. as per Einstein's relativity. The System object I have described previously in this topic allows an object to exist both as a particle and a wave,
You are a likely a timeless particle (your consciousness?) as well as a time-bound human being..

You forgot to answer my (implicit) question and Kryptid's explicit one.
Quote from: Kryptid on 22/08/2019 09:58:22
Okay, so what is the time associated with a 1 keV photon? What is the power?

It's a reasonable enough question.
Why don't you answer it?

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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #478 on: 25/08/2019 11:15:46 »
Quote from: mxplxxx on 24/08/2019 09:04:33
In high-gravity systems, the particle objects will likely eventually become black holes.
But, how can a point particle affect a black hole? Answer, the point particle is a reference object in 3d space to the "real" deal particle which exists outside of time. In other words, a particle cannot exist in time, but a reference to it can. Explains how quantum entanglement works.

ps in a VB.NET or C# Microsoft program, all objects are reference objects.
« Last Edit: 25/08/2019 11:29:00 by mxplxxx »
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Re: How do we measure the energy of a photon?
« Reply #479 on: 25/08/2019 14:46:58 »
How do you expect me to solve the equation if you won't tell me what the value of "t" is?
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