[MichaelMD (OP)]

In earlier threads, I have described my model of a universal ether composed of elemental, universal, etheric building-block units, which represent the basic units of everything we observe, including quantum units such as electrons and photons.

One of the fundamental questions in quantum physics is what is the underlying nature of the wave-forms we observe in electrical phenomena and light transmissions. -I propose that their origin lies in an underlying universal ether, which in my ether-model is made up largely of ultra-rarified elemental "building block" units, but which also can contain larger, etheric, units that could be called "etheroidal".units -Using this kind of model, we can propose a mechanism for how such an ether would lead to the kinds of wave-forms that are seen in association with still-larger-size energy units, such as quantal electrons and photons.

With this model of Ether, the larger and larger units (first, etheroidal, then ultimately, quantal) get built-up wherever the underlying ether is subjected to outside energy forces, which cause the elemental ether units to align, entrain, and form other ether linkages, which in turn leads to the formation of the larger energy units. In the case of quantum size units like electrons and photons, their manifestations strongly feature wave-forms, the basic nature of which is still unknown. I propose that explaining the "wave question" involves an analogy, similar to the way ocean waves reach a crescendo as they approach the shore - i.e., both represent a "shoreline effect."

The way that would work is that in the case of ocean waves, those waves become much larger and stronger when they approach the shore. -This is explained as being due to the fact that, out further at sea, the energies producing the relatively smaller waves there, from underlying currents and the like, are being "buffered" by the vast underlying, calmer, deeper waters. Then, as the water comes closer to the shore, that buffering effect is lost, and the energy in the water manifests in the form of the much-stronger waves seen at the shoreline.

In the case of the ether, when it is under low-energy conditions, the ether is mainly composed of elemental units, with low levels of its larger etheroidal units, which results in relatively low levels of quantum units. But if  the ether is subjected to an outside energy force, the vast "sea" of elemental units is stimulated to align, entrain, and form larger units. In that case, the ether underlying the quantum units changes, forming wave-forms similar to the way ocean waves are formed as they approach the shoreline. -The ether no longer contains just  the ultra-small elemental units, but now, it contains many more larger and larger etheroidal units, and ultimately, quantum units. The way this transition is manifested is by the formation of "shoreline' quantum wave forms, just as the ocean forms shoreline waves. 

[MichaelMD (OP)]

To add a few details that might clarify how the "elemental building-blocks" originated, and how they would work in generating larger energy units, up to the scale of quantum units in my model of the Ether, the concept would be that the smallest ether units, being elemental, are all identical, as well as universal, that their origin was from a "first causal" universal oscillation of point-localities, and that therefore, they became the fundamental constituents of everything that came after, including quantum units. -After being derived from initial oscillating elemental "points," they transitioned from reciprocating oscilllation to  independent, now-interactional, vibration. Being identical, and having the energy dynamic of direct vibratory contact between units, their interactions are perfectly linear (unlike quantum dynamics which involve waves, fields, vector distances between units, and the like.) =That is how they are able to align, entrain, and form larger and larger energy units. 

[Bored chemist]

"Is this how quantum wave-forms are generated by underlying ether?"
No, and it's also not how they are generated by unicorns- for much the same reason.

[MichaelMD (OP)]

Your criticism is uniquely corny,. You're Bored, but - really want to climb aboard.

[Bored chemist]

I don't want to climb aboard anything that relies on an ether that was proven not to exist the century before last.

[MichaelMD (OP)]

Michelson-Morley, and the subsequent "null" experiments around 100 years ago, all used criteria based on assumptions that the ether could be detected by measuring propagation of light waves. They believed the ether acts as a medium, through which light propagates, and you could detect this with ordinary instruments such as optical devices, and using quantal and inertial criteria, like "the ether wind."

My ether model proposes that elemental ether units are far too rarified to be detected that way, by exponential orders of magnitude. The ether's ultimate origin was from elemental point-localities, originally existing everywhere. The criteria those 1800s and early 1900s experimenters used, such as "an ether wind," could not have detected basic ether forces.  In my ether model, the ether's "etheroidal" units, which are built up from elemental units, and come just before light waves are observed, are closer in scale to our familiar quantum scale units, but the etheroidal units are not the preponderant ether units, the elemental units are.

That is why the ether was never "disproven."

[Bored chemist]

by exponential orders of magnitude.

That phrase does not mean anything.

Do you know how good the recent "nul" measurements are?
Saying "the hundred year old experiments aren't good enough" is a bit meaningless, because we  now have much better ones.

[MichaelMD (OP)]

The concept of a universal ether that started from a universal oscillation of elemental point localities is the only theory of origins that makes sense that I have seen. Such point-localities would have to have been ultimately-minuscule, to have been elemental. (Such oscillating elements would have to have had tiny "empty" spaces between them to be able to oscillate.) The next step would have been a combination of neighboring "points," in a "Yin and Yang" fashion, due to oscillatory fatigue (which is a known process in oscillation.) Such point-pairs then would necessarily have had to reversibly revert to singleton units, which would have broken the symmetry of oscillation, converting the oscillations to independently vibrating elements, able to interact with each other as they vibrate - So the idea of an ether composed of extremely-minuscule elemental units, I would submit, does "mean something."

I also submit this kind of ether-model represents the only possible model for quantum entanglement (QE). QE, then, would represent radiated packets of ether energy which have the same vibratory pattern. Elemental ether units would be the only actual active participants in this phenomenon, with the two entangled quantum units being "walled-off" cool "arms" of a quiet, purring, ether mechanism.

I can't answer your statement that there have been recent disproofs of ether "better" than Michelson-Morley et al's. All the key references I have seen only cite those older experiments.

[Bored chemist]

I can't answer your statement that there have been recent disproofs of ether "better" than Michelson-Morley et al's. All the key references I have seen only cite those older experiments.

How hard did you look?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelson%E2%80%93Morley_experiment#Recent_experiments

[MichaelMD (OP)]

As far as the references in your citation from Wikipedia, those are newer than the experiments of Michelson and Morley (MMX), and their successors, in the first few decades of the 20th century, true, but I myself don't see anything in them that would make them "better" than the earlier ones. These "better recent experiments" you cited from Wikipedia, mostly used optical refraction setups, which is basically the same kind of approach as in the MMX and other older ones. The other newer one cited in your reference mentions "the ether wind," an inertial criterion, which, again, I claim could not co0me close to detecting the presence of extremely-rarified elemental units, which I claim are preponderant, in my model of the ether.

[Bored chemist]

t I myself don't see anything in them that would make them "better" than the earlier ones.

Really?
YOu don't see how an experiment that would detect an ether flow  equivalent to 2.5 cm per second is better than one that would need an ether drift of about 20 km/s?

Do yu understand that others might see that as better?

Well- never mind.


What experiment would we need to do to find out if your idea is right (or, at least, better than the conventional view)?

[MichaelMD (OP)]

The only kind of experiment I can see that would detect the ether would be a field test designed to generate a selectively-etheric energy field, and then measuring material within the test setup for decreased  density, an effect not produced by known forms of energy. Another term for this would be levitation. (I actually have a design for such a field test, but it would be expensive and I have not found a sponsor to fund it.)

[Bored chemist]

The only kind of experiment I can see that would detect the ether would be a field test designed to generate a selectively-etheric energy field, and then measuring material within the test setup for decreased  density, an effect not produced by known forms of energy. Another term for this would be levitation. (I actually have a design for such a field test, but it would be expensive and I have not found a sponsor to fund it.)

So, you have an idea that can't be tested.
So, it's not science...

[MichaelMD (OP)]

Just to return to the concept of how energic (light or electrical) waveforms are generated, and the analogy I propose with ocean waves, this model might become clearer by analyzing the way ocean waves behave, and the pulsation/crescendo effect as ocean waves reach the shoreline.

Far out in the ocean, fluxing energies below the water's surface, by such forces as ocean currents, manifest in the form of separate waves, which are smaller and less forceful than at the shoreline. -On reaching shore, the ocean waves become much stronger and larger, as the buffering effect of the vast deeper waters is lost.

With the model I propose for underlying ether forces generating quantum energic waveforms, the analogy would be that, generally, energic effects within the ether do not occur perfectly uniformly. Overall, there are foci of greater and lesser energy within the ether (as in the ocean), where there are greater or lesser amounts of forces, which in turn causes the smaller ether units to align, entrain, and form larger energy units - first, etheroidal units, and ultimately, when these units reach a peak, or crescendo, quantum units, and the pattern of this transition into the quantum dynamic world becomes that of the waveform - basically pulsations of energy, rather than a smooth pattern.

[Colin2B]

Far out in the ocean, fluxing energies below the water's surface, by such forces as ocean currents, manifest in the form of separate waves, which are smaller and less forceful than at the shoreline. -On reaching shore, the ocean waves become much stronger and larger, as the buffering effect of the vast deeper waters is lost.

This isn’t how ocean waves work so it’s not a good idea to base your aether analogy on it.

[MichaelMD (OP)]

I grant that my model of how energies produce oceanic wave formation was oversimplified compared to the model of oceanographers. There are multiple factors producing the forces that form waves in the ocean. But that part of the analogy does not bear on my main point, which is how quantum waves basically are generated, and I would still hold that there is an analogy with ocean waves as they approach the shoreline. (The argument shouldn't be about that part of oceanographic theory, which doesn't bear on my main point, that a similarity exists, which could be called a "shoreline effect.") -I'll try stating it a slightly different way.

Analogy between ocean waves and quantum energy waves rests upon the similarity between the crests of the incoming, as compared with the returning, waves. In the case of quantum waves, the similarity is their resemblance to the way ocean-going waves wind-down in returning to the open ocean. where energies wind down over the calmer sea. -In the case of quantum waves having just been formed, the underlying etheric forces in the area are returned to a lower energy state.

[Bored chemist]

I grant that my model of how energies produce oceanic wave formation was oversimplified compared to the model of oceanographers.

It's not  "oversimplified"; it's wrong.

Since the ether was shown not to exist over a century ago, ideas involving "etheric waves" are also wrong.

[MichaelMD (OP)]

My Ether Model does not propose a concept of "ether waves." Its concept is of waves, which appear in quantum observations, waves that are formed as etheroidal units, operating through vibratory forces of the underlying ether, transition to quantum units that operate through quantum dynamics.

[Bored chemist]

My Ether Model does not propose a concept of "ether waves." Its concept is of waves, which appear in quantum observations, waves that are formed as etheroidal units, operating through vibratory forces of the underlying ether, transition to quantum units that operate through quantum dynamics.

Was that meant to be postmodern poetry?

[Colin2B]

To add to what @Bored chemist  said “It's not  "oversimplified"; it's wrong.”

There are multiple factors producing the forces that form waves in the ocean.

You didn’t mention any of those factors

But that part of the analogy does not bear on my main point, which is how quantum waves basically are generated, and I would still hold that there is an analogy with ocean waves as they approach the shoreline. ..........

If you are going to use ocean waves as an analogy it’s important you understand them otherwise people will dismiss your theory as wrong. For example, ocean waves increase in amplitude and also decrease in wavelength as they approach the shoreline.
You need a better analogy.