[CliveG]

Even the US military does not want the possibility in the media.

Who  produced this  coverage then?
https://www.rt.com/news/weapon-us-microwave-cannon-363/
It sure doesn't look like it was obtained  clandestinely.

These type of weapons are for short term crowd control. No problem advertising them because they DO use heat.

These weapons are clearly design for skin heating and no doubt do just that. They do not penetrate in the way cellular microwave (900Mhz to 3GHz).

The MW radiation is for long-term clandestine dose dependent degradation of enemy non-combatants. I emphasize "clandestine". Maybe to disable a double agent with high doses while he sleeps in his bed. Or use it on dissidents to degrade them mentally. It is  after all, a slow poison like lead and mercury.

Dare I say that it might aggravate the US populace and cause a few people to do crazy things. Just a tipping point effect to add to any existing problems. When I am deprived of sleep for a few days, you don't want to push me in any way once I decide I need my rest.

Today, I went to the property on the other side of the tower site. They are complaining of health effects. Their home has a disturbing signal of bursts of high power. The pulsing is quite pronounced. They complained of an overall decline in health. Chest and heart issues never there before. The usual tiredness after sleeping was the major complaint. And joint pains at night. The lady complained of waking and feeling like the bed was shaking. I never had that symptom but it was one my wife said she got and it was quite pronounced and disturbing.

They have decided they too must sell. They are appalled at the lack of justice that cell companies can simply use fraud to get their towers where they want them. I have little doubt that the owners of the property will be feeling the effect in a few months. Their power levels are less than ours because their house is further back and the antennae are not pushing out such a high level that way. However, they too will have more pronounced pulsing.

[Bored chemist]

No problem advertising them because they DO use heat.

No, they use microwaves.

The MW radiation is for long-term clandestine dose dependent degradation of enemy non-combatants. I emphasize "clandestine".

Well I'm glad you chose to emphasise that.
Because there's no sensible way you could clandestinely microwave them these days.
If you look on ebay there are dozens of microwave detectors.
That's before we start  to think about sweeping for bugs.

It is  after all, a slow poison like lead and mercury.

Really?
I though that you said it was quick.

I have headaches and disturbed dreams that only occurred after the mast was turned on.

And then you seem to have added some more anecdote about the neighbours.
Why?

[CliveG]

Quote from: CliveG on Today at 07:32:03

    So the massive amount of research I have done still leaves me "ignorant"?

Apparently, because it hasn't taught you how to critically evaluate a report.
As far as I can tell, the way you choose whether to cite a report her or not depends on "Does it support my perspective? If so, it must be right".
And yet you fail to notice glaring errors like those I have pointed out.



Quote from: CliveG on Today at 07:32:03

    And what is the profession of these professionals

I'm a chemist; these days I get paid to do risk assessment.
How about you?

I am an electrical engineer who was a director of engineering for a New York company. I have a world wide patent on a special natural gas burner system for heating metal can seams. And invented a flame plasma control for flame treating plastics so one can print on them (just the flame control - the treating effect was well known but at times erratic). And invented a small (to fit in a cabinet) tester for traveling wave protective relay for power lines. The company who invented the relay said it could only be tested with a full scale warehouse sized set-up. My tester was good enough to point out a slight window of slow operation (that the main company knew about). I was the one who advised an electronics company that their random failures were because of a combination of solder paste and under-temperature resin poured in humid conditions which caused a tiny bubble filled with a drop of water on a sensor joint. Six of their engineers working for six months had not solved it.

I also worked for a company designing specialized circuit boards which had to pass tests for radio emissions and radio susceptibility. We had our own specialized Faraday room with antenna and spectrum analyzers.

In one case I had to solve the problem of our stainless steel electrodes in a bread oven turning into brittle ceramic in a matter of months. Chlorine in the water sprayed onto the bread (and our red hot electrodes) to give it a hard crust. I was hired to help a vending machine company find the random mis-operations their machines were having. The software was not allowing one component enough time to settle down. I can trouble shoot electrical, electronic and the software. I was asked to fix a university project that produced three phase power (35kVA) from single phase using space vector technology. I solved it by re-writing a portion of the code written in C++ with machine code and carefully designing the interrupts to ensure no glitches.

Recently I troubleshot a solar geyser installation (the top brand) and pointed out the design flaws that were causing the problems. A poorly designed power supply and relying on a over-pressure valve on a working basis and not a safety relief. This stressed the tanks with early failures. I was asked to evaluate a major solar installation quote for a large company. I pointed out that they would need a large generator (equivalent to their highest load) when the City power failed. The supplier did not mention this - one cloud and down it goes.

I worked with a NZ company supplying equipment to the Australian army for war games using laser technology. I handled to the lightning rod specifications, mobile generating equipment and portable radio masts. Going for diesel/battery over more esoteric solutions, and telling them that the lightning expert was wrong with regard to the mobile control centers. He had the grace to concede I was correct.

Yeah, I think I qualify for research and problem solving.

[CliveG]

Quote from: CliveG on Today at 15:33:46

    No problem advertising them because they DO use heat.

No, they use microwaves.

Which causes heat. And this is the effect they want. It is designed to do that.

[Bored chemist]

Quote from: CliveG on Today at 15:33:46

    No problem advertising them because they DO use heat.

No, they use microwaves.

Which causes heat. And this is the effect they want. It is designed to do that.

And nobody ever said that it didn't.
What point are you trying to make?

[CliveG]

Quote from: CliveG on Today at 15:33:46

    The MW radiation is for long-term clandestine dose dependent degradation of enemy non-combatants. I emphasize "clandestine".


Well I'm glad you chose to emphasise that.
Because there's no sensible way you could clandestinely microwave them these days.
If you look on ebay there are dozens of microwave detectors.
That's before we start  to think about sweeping for bugs.

MW is everywhere. It is just that the agents would be testing to get local standing waves in a part of the room where a sweep would show slightly higher than normal power. The tests are no doubt designed to see what power and pulsation levels they can get away with. They already know the effects - just trying to see how long (in months) and how low they can go without detection. Even if they put detectors on peoples heads the operators would think it is just higher than usual. Unless they were specifically looking for this type of attack.

[CliveG]

Quote from: CliveG on Today at 15:33:46

    It is  after all, a slow poison like lead and mercury.

Really?
I though that you said it was quick.

On some people and some levels.
In other it make take decades. And some may not notice the degradation in their health - blaming everything else.

[Bored chemist]

Yeah, I think I qualify for research and problem solving.

So, why do you keep posting nonsense here?
For example, it makes no sense (ie it is nonsense) to post about microwaves causing heating.
We know that.
and yet...

[Bored chemist]

It is just that the agents would be testing to get ...

How?
Do they turn up in a van and knock at the door?
"Hello, I'm from the local government doing a survey on what microwave power distribution we are delivering to your staff"
"I say, sorry to be a nuisance, but could you move your desk a foot to the right so you sit in the antinode please?"

Most of are all too well aware that buildings do a fair job on scrambling microwave signals anyway. That's why we can't get reception on our phones.

And, of course, for security purposes, lots of embassy buildings aer faraday caged.

[CliveG]

....edition.cnn.com/videos/health/2019/08/30/vaping-lung-disease-texas-healthy-teen-gupta-pkg-vpx.cnn

At 1:27 the comment..."While it is notoriously difficult to prove cause and effect". Hmm.

Really... first the anecdotes, then the science.

And when the numbers of people being harmed go up dramatically, suddenly people do not wait for the proof from science or explanations as to the mechanisms.

[CliveG]

It is just that the agents would be testing to get ...

How?
Do they turn up in a van and knock at the door?
"Hello, I'm from the local government doing a survey on what microwave power distribution we are delivering to your staff"
"I say, sorry to be a nuisance, but could you move your desk a foot to the right so you sit in the antinode please?"

Most of are all too well aware that buildings do a fair job on scrambling microwave signals anyway. That's why we can't get reception on our phones.

And, of course, for security purposes, lots of embassy buildings aer faraday caged.

The foreign agents doing the attack would have access to the residences through cleaning staff. Ever heard of computer modelling to determine the placement of standing waves?

The attacks happened in the residents of the consulate staff, not in the actual consulates or embassies. Those attacked complained of issues at night when sleeping. Including Frey-like noise.

This would be high tech stuff. Not some local yokels playing around.

[CliveG]

Yeah, I think I qualify for research and problem solving.

So, why do you keep posting nonsense here?
For example, it makes no sense (ie it is nonsense) to post about microwaves causing heating.
We know that.
and yet...

I do not understand your confusion unless it is caused by your confirmation bias.

You give an example where heating from MW is the effect and we all agree on that. I say there is no need to hide this.

My example is about possible cellular damage due to non-heating effects - either the Frey effect or cellular disruption. This is an effect the cell companies and military do not want discussed or attributed to MWs. I say they want to hide these effects.

[Bored chemist]

Do you know why it's called the Frey effect?
It's because Dr Frey published stuff about it- about 60 years ago.
So, if the military are trying to keep it a secret... well lets just hope they do a better job with real secrets.

I'm still waiting for you to cite a scientific paper on cellular disruption at levels (significantly) lower than those which would cause thermal effects.

Obviously, it's possible that you can't- because they are all suppressed.
But then you would need to explain why there are lots of (dubious) papers which you can cite.

Are you saying that the phone companies and the military are only allowing papers by people who are borderline competent.

[Bored chemist]

Ever heard of computer modelling to determine the placement of standing waves?

Ever heard of computer modeling for weather forecasting?

[Bored chemist]

My example is about possible cellular damage due to non-heating effects - either the Frey effect or cellular disruption.

The Frey effect is a heating effect.

[CliveG]

My example is about possible cellular damage due to non-heating effects - either the Frey effect or cellular disruption.

The Frey effect is a heating effect.

Yes. However, it is more complicated than simple heating. It is mechanical vibrations set up in living tissue due to thermo-elastic effects, and it needs pulsations to occur. If a persons brain is experiencing such pulsations then is would be no surprise that the symptoms mimic mild concussion.

MW -> Heat = The known effect for the general population.
Pulsed MW -> Pulsed Heat -> Mechanical vibration in tissue = A little known effect

[CliveG]

Ever heard of computer modelling to determine the placement of standing waves?

Ever heard of computer modeling for weather forecasting?

I am not sure what your point is. Who has not heard of it?

They are on quite a different scale of complexity. And the new 5G MIMO apparently takes reflections into account to calculate how to best direct the signal to a moving cell phone or device.

[Bored chemist]

I am not sure what your point is.

Even though the weather forecasters have years of good data their predictions aren't very accurate.

You are saying that the people zapping embassy staff know where the piles of paper etc (and the people) are to a precision of a few cm.

And the new 5G MIMO apparently takes reflections into account to calculate how to best direct the signal to a moving cell phone or device.

Which is difficult- if you have two way communication. If you don't, then it's impossible.

I'm still waiting for you to address the faraday cage.

MW -> Heat

requires high power (compared to a phone)

Pulsed MW ->

Requires an even higher peak power and is thus more readily detected.

[CliveG]

Last night at 1 am I was struck by how many people (the vast majority) have problems with cognitive dissonance.

This is the ability to hold two conflicting versions of a belief at the same time. For example, I can think at times that there is no God and other times I am sure there is (from personal experience combined with logical argument). I have to rationalize why I hold two different beliefs at different times. I could easily debate either position logically. I know all the arguments for and against.

With tower radiation, I am finding that people are either worried or are convinced some people are just exaggerating and imagining. A large part of the problem is that people want their phones and devices. They would experience severe cognitive dissonance to have to be careful about using their device and being silent about all the towers and antennae arrays. Hence the cell companies have an automatic bias for people to believe their propaganda. I see it in some relatives of ours. Others have a hard time believing it can be so bad, and decide they are not sure.

When the tower was installed I was forced to check my belief system that a) the radiation was harmless and b) that it would be directed over our heads. My research meant I had to abandon the old beliefs. Not only that, the more I researched, the more I was forced to rethink and change my beliefs.

So far you three opposing posters apparently suffer so much from the inability to change your beliefs that you read everything with a jaundiced eye (confirmation bias). You see only the negatives. You read a science study and then nit-pick using arguments that could be used against just about any science that is still developing.

I saw this very clearly in a community in Cape Town. They all spoke negatively of the people who were emigrating to New Zealand. Around the braai (barbecue) they spoke of all the great things SA had to offer. Once they made the decision to emigrate it was overnight. Then all they could see was crime, corruption and disaster. It was like flipping a switch. They knew that some people experienced "buyers remorse" upon leaving. They made scrap books with all the news headlines to remind them of why they left. They heard of the family that put all their possessions on a boat and changed their minds and flew back before the boat arrived. The boat was on the return trip to SA when they once more changed their minds and flew back to NZ.

[CliveG]

I am not sure what your point is.

Even though the weather forecasters have years of good data their predictions aren't very accurate.

You are saying that the people zapping embassy staff know where the piles of paper etc (and the people) are to a precision of a few cm.

And the new 5G MIMO apparently takes reflections into account to calculate how to best direct the signal to a moving cell phone or device.

Which is difficult- if you have two way communication. If you don't, then it's impossible.

I'm still waiting for you to address the faraday cage.

MW -> Heat

requires high power (compared to a phone)

Pulsed MW ->

Requires an even higher peak power and is thus more readily detected.

Modelling from past data and modelling from physical structures is two different things. There is no need to get precision. Just vary the frequency slightly back and forth and the high intensity spot will sweep back and forth. Enough to do the damage.

High power equals high heat. Low power equals low heat. If low heat pulsations can cause damage when reflections and standing waves intensify the absorbed power then the object is achieved. And they had weeks to do it and slowly increase power and vary pulsations and frequency until they saw a reaction. The position of the beds was probably quite well established, and the people are lying still. If a thermal scope and meters were used to detect hot-spots then this might have assisted the targeting. Just a one degree increase in head temperatures could do it. Anyhow, once more you argue it cannot be done because you believe it cannot be done. The CIA did investigate very novel ways to assassinate leaders. The umbrella gun shooting a radiactive pellet into the back of a leg was a novel way.

Faraday cage. Will have to check the past posts.