[alancalverd]

Just to nail down a few statistics. The UK national diagnostic reference level for a chest x-ray is an entrance dose of 0.2 mGy, giving an effective dose of 0.02 mSv. The DRL is the 75th percentile of the dose delivered in UK hospitals. I would be very suspicious of any suggestion of a different value as typical.

[Bored chemist]

Any uninsulated wiring or metal is an antenna.

Yes, but phone wiring is insulated.
So the important parameter is the loss factor of the insulation.
Most cables are pvc clad.
PVC is a fairly lossy dielectric, and the losses rise with increasing frequency. Phone cables would be pretty much useless for microwaves.
This is why the people who actually send microwave signals about the place use special cables.

As an electrical engineer with experience in the susceptibility of circuits I should know a thing or two.

You should , but...
You should, for example know that people use special (rather expensive) cables for microwave frequencies.
You should know that, (even if you don't understand why).
And you should recognise that the people who choose these expensive cables do so because the cheap ones won't work.
So you should realise that "cheap" cables do a poor job of carrying microwave frequency signals.
So you should recognise that those cables will do a poor job of picking up those signals.

That's straightforward scientific deduction.

And you didn't do it.
Why is that?
And, on a related note, re.

Why are you so unscientific?

get a mirror.

Stockholm. I justified my comments and put numbers to them. Your scorn is misdirected.

Your numbers seemed to suggest that stockholm should be awash with corpses.

Your boredom is showing, and you are not contributing, only sabotaging the thread.

I am indeed, getting bored of this.
But, if the point of the thread is to spread misinformation, I'm proud to be sabotaging it.

I'm not sure what you think you are contributing to a science site.

Just to nail down a few statistics. The UK national diagnostic reference level for a chest x-ray is an entrance dose of 0.2 mGy, giving an effective dose of 0.02 mSv. The DRL is the 75th percentile of the dose delivered in UK hospitals. I would be very suspicious of any suggestion of a different value as typical.

Thanks for that.
Just to cut to the chase.
Clive's assertion is this.

The European REFLEX studies of 2004 clearly demonstrated that a mere 24-hour exposure to the 1.8 gigahertz (GHz), one of the lethal frequencies flowing through Stockholm Central, inflicts the same catastrophic damage to human DNA as 1600 chest X-rays.

It's more your feld than mine
Roughly how long would it take 1600 chest x rays a day to kill you?

[alancalverd]

1600 chest x-rays = 32 millisievert, or one abdominal CT scan with contrast. Repeated daily for 3 years would almost certainly be lethal. However the parameter "1.8 GHz" carries no information as to dose, and "catastrophic damage to human DNA" can be inflicted by one molecule of sodium chloride. The statement is meaningless.

[CliveG]

Focus. I asked for your opinion on one video and you guys go rushing off on old stuff. The twin of doubt is distraction.

Martin Pall - EMF - Cellular effect on humans

Dr Martin Pall - Electosmog

Cellular microbiologist and physicist. And hard cold facts. Don't choke now.

[CliveG]

People are growing fearful... Despite the doubts being cast. We know this from local problems with sales.

http://electromagnetichealth.org/electromagnetic-health-blog/survey-property-desirability/

Ok... time to pack my bags...

[Bored chemist]

I asked for your opinion on one video and you guys go rushing off on old stuff.

That's because, you say stuff like  "

Stockholm. I justified my comments and put numbers to them. Your scorn is misdirected.

So we are forced to go back to it and remind you that you still have to address why you think nobody lives longer than 3 years in Stockholm.
We are not obliged to pay any attention to your new gish gallop until you have addressed the comments already made.

The twin of doubt is distraction.

Then stop posting the distraction about Pall and address your earlier lie about Stockholm.

If you are prepared to accept that you were spreading  scaremongering nonsense we can move on.
(well, we can move on to the point where you pretend that you can send microwaves down phone lines for any meaningful distance, then maybe we can get back you your blind assertion that the BMJ is fake news and so on...)

[evan_au]

The European REFLEX studies of 2004 clearly demonstrated that a mere 24-hour exposure to the 1.8 gigahertz (GHz), one of the lethal frequencies flowing through Stockholm Central, inflicts the same catastrophic damage to human DNA as 1600 chest X-rays.

I had the privilege of visiting the center of Stockholm in August 2019.

I estimate the peak field strength at around 300,000,000 μW/m².
- This was enough to cause immediate heating effects
- So I moved out of the direct beam.

These high frequencies are strongly absorbed by rain, and it was noticeably less intense during the occasional rain showers.

Here is a holiday snap of the town square of the Old Town (Gamla Stan) - just outside the Nobel Museum.
The people don't seem too bothered by the radiation....

Stockholm_Town_Square_small.jpg (153.44 kB . 800x600 - viewed 3561 times)
 ...Most of the radiation was in the THz range....

[Bored chemist]

The European REFLEX studies of 2004 clearly demonstrated that a mere 24-hour exposure to the 1.8 gigahertz (GHz), one of the lethal frequencies flowing through Stockholm Central, inflicts the same catastrophic damage to human DNA as 1600 chest X-rays.

I had the privilege of visiting the center of Stockholm in August 2019.

I estimate the peak field strength at around 300,000,000 μW/m².
- This was enough to cause immediate heating effects
- So I moved out of the direct beam.

These high frequencies are strongly absorbed by rain, and it was noticeably less intense during the occasional rain showers.

Here is a holiday snap of the town square of the Old Town (Gamla Stan) - just outside the Nobel Museum.
The people don't seem too bothered by the radiation....

 ...Most of the radiation was in the THz range....

Well, if you will leave a bloody great fusion reactor running all the time with nothing but air as shielding.

[CliveG]

From the last few replies that avoid the serious science it is obvious that the industry is in total control.

The greed of the elite and industry, and the apathy and addiction of the masses, will result in cell microwaves spreading with exponential growth. This will lead to massive health problems and a reduction of population. Of course this will also mean civil instability and all the destruction that will come with that. The future will be what science fiction sees it to be - dystopian.

All my opinion of course. The END.

[Bored chemist]

From the last few replies that avoid the serious science it is obvious that the industry is in total control.

Non sequitur.

All my opinion of course. The END.

Yes, but in your opinion, the lifespan in Stockholm is, at best, 3 years.

Do you not see why that labels you as " a man who has no idea how to tell fact from fiction"?

This will lead to massive health problems and a reduction of population.

Come back to remind us if the population of the Earth ever actually falls from one month to the next.

[evan_au]

This will lead to massive health problems and a reduction of population.

Many countries are experiencing a decline in childbirth rates below sustainable levels - this level is normally put at an average of 2.1 children per woman in "western" countries.

However, this has happened at a time of increasing health - it seems to be more associated with increasing education opportunities for women, the right to vote, increased work opportunities for women, and access to contraception and improved medical care.

There is a delay between declining childbirth rates and declining population - a gap that is increasing because of increasing health. And population is affected by other factors like migration and refugees fleeing conflict or persecution.

[CliveG]

You guys just do not get it. Wait ten years - the tip is already showing.

The appropriate comment is:

"And the band played on".

[alancalverd]

Come back to remind us if the population of the Earth ever actually falls from one month to the next.

It did during the 'flu epidemic after WWI, and mankind was lucky  to survive the last Ice Age.

It would, nevertheless, be a good idea to take control of the one parameter that can really improve everyone's quality of life and survival potential, with immediate benefit and no cost. 

[Bored chemist]

It would, nevertheless, be a good idea to take control of the one parameter that can really improve everyone's quality of life and survival potential, with immediate benefit and no cost. 

Does that mean that we should improve the  phone network, in order to improve people's quality of life and increase the chances that they can summon help in an emergency?

You guys just do not get it. Wait ten years - the tip is already showing.

Where?
Do you remember that your claims about Stockholm and Sweden were wrong?

[alancalverd]

Does that mean that we should improve the  phone network, in order to improve people's quality of life and increase the chances that they can summon help in an emergency?

If you could improve the phone network and supply everyone with a phone at no cost, it might save a few lives, but it would ruin many more through bullying and scams.

[CliveG]

Not one decent intelligent comment about the work of Dr Martin Pall, or the work of Dr Lennart Hardell. Both whose work shows the cellular harm and damage.

And whose work explains the symptoms I get after I visit my wife at home next to the tower.

The corruption of tower officials, telco officials and the judicial system to get towers put where-ever they want them should be a worry to all. They are prepared to lie under oath, create fictitious documents under oath, and the judges are prepared to ignore the lies and give them what they want.

No wonder that Pall and Hardell get no traction.

And with the posters on this site avoiding the real issues and doing lots of distraction the cell industry will just get stronger.

Mankind will not have to worry about pandemics and ice-ages or climate change - mankind will be the author of his own downfall. Just look at the crazy stories of people killing each other. Depression, anger and insanity of those on the edge is one effect.

My wife and I have been house hunting and will look at some today. Even away from a close mast I am realizing I cannot live in the city.

[alancalverd]

There is little point in commenting on in vitro studies reported with incomplete data.

Lying under oath is part of the game. The one thing that is certain in a courtroom is that half the people present are not telling the truth. It is up to the judge to decide which side has the deeper pockets.

[Bored chemist]

And with the posters on this site avoiding the real issues

What "real" issue has been avoided here?

[CliveG]

There is little point in commenting on in vitro studies reported with incomplete data.

Lying under oath is part of the game. The one thing that is certain in a courtroom is that half the people present are not telling the truth. It is up to the judge to decide which side has the deeper pockets.

Little point in commenting - easy to be dismissive. Little data - depends how high you set your bar - which probably varies according the deep pockets you reference.

Your comments about the legal system are unfortunately correct. A corrupt system favoring the rich and powerful with the illusion of justice. Time for a change - end times perhaps.

[CliveG]

And with the posters on this site avoiding the real issues

What "real" issue has been avoided here?

The one posed in the opening post. Namely cellular disruption and reactive oxygen species.

Many scientists and some very eminent ones are certain there is real risk.

You guys pose as having some kind of scientific background but that is as far as it goes. You are simply supporting the establishment for whatever reasons you have - and trotting out their arguments which are propaganda for the masses.