[CliveG]

chest infection. He says that it is rife in the community...There are no scientific studies or even news articles.

Australia and South Africa are just coming out of our winter flu season... and it is covered in the news:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/health/flu-australia-america.html

many pandemics have secondary fatal effects as systems break down. Deaths to fire, starvation and lack of medical care mount as systems fail.

If you want to see the effects of a severe pandemic, it is now the centenary of the 1918-1920 "Spanish Flu" (which actually originated in the USA).
- This killed more people than the bullets, bombs and poison gas of World War 1.
- This was before the invention of cellular mobile
- It was around the start of AM radio broadcasts (although I'm not aware of any causal link).

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

So to the crucial question: Did you and your family and friends get a flu injection this year?
- This has a known effectiveness against a known and quite significant risk (and they don't claim 100% protection!)
- As compared to mobile tower effects, which are known to have an effect which is extremely small, if not zero (it is lost in the background noise of an aging population, subject to declining immune system effectiveness, and increasing heart, lung, joint, digestive and circulatory problems)

You may have noticed that I have been talking about the past 19 months. The illnesses are not tracking the flu season.

Pandemics. You are correct on all counts. It was simple case of disease made worse by war. I have done quite a bit of in-depth study of pandemics. The 1918 Spanish Flu originated in an army base in Kansas. Despite all the signs they still shipped soldiers to the front, and so did other countries. This promoted the rapid spread ot every part of the world. The French, English and Germans all got it. It is likely the Germans surrendered because they did not know how badly the Allies had it. It was named after the Spanish newspapers who broke the story because they were not censored. It killed people in their prime because of their overwhelming immune reaction - the cytokine storm. It came in two waves and spread around the world. I looked up many of the actual reports of the times to see the effects and the policies of the government. It was fast and deadly. Four ladies sat down to play bridge. By morning all were dead.

The Black Plague had the interesting effect of promoting democracy. The Nordic nobility were nearly all killed off hence they got a head start on people power. The land owners had to negotiate with their former serfs to work cooperatively for a decent wage. Nature (or God) has a way of leveling the playing field when the rich get too powerful.

Our medicines have helped a great deal but with viruses they rely on our immune system. Bad immune system and the vaccines start failing. They all have side effects. Even paracetamol hammers the liver. No, I do not take flu shots. The one time I did I got a mild flu. On the rare occasion that I get a flu I can get rid of it in 24 hours by boosting my immune system. A very hot room, rest and chocolate.

My prediction in 2010 was that a immune-busting pathogen would be the underlying cause of the soon-to-come global pandemic. Little did I realize (until last year) that it would be cell phone radiation. It may be low level but it is constant and non-stop.

My wife's grandson is sick again. Strep throat. His immune system is not good. Many sickness this year. And febrile epilepsy which the neurologist says may be tower related. My wife also told me that so many people she knows are sick.

[evan_au]

On the rare occasion that I get a flu I can get rid of it in 24 hours

This sounds more like the common cold than influenza.

[Bored chemist]

Chest infection was the primary cause.

So, not microwave exposure then.
Glad that's sorted.

Your many one-line pronouncements of your personal opinion are not positive arguments.

What about the relatively long involved ones that, for example, show that you did, in fact, say that the population of stockholm will only  live 3 years.?

Positive Contributions on this forum. I have presented this forum with a number of arguments, anecdotal evidence, reason, scientific articles and other relevant articles.

Anecdotes are neither use nor ornament.
The fact that you present them shows that you don't understand science.
The fact that you cite them as a positive contribution  reinforces it.

The papers you cite are typically trash- as I have pointed out at some length.

Your reasoning is also clearly faulty on a number of grounds. for example your belief that a company, having installed a mast chose to use it to trouble you rather than because that's what they  put it there for.

[Bored chemist]

This morning's Dilbert seems appropriate.

Bald guy with goatee: I hear what you are saying and I disagree.
Dilbert: Because...?
BGWG: Because what?
Dibert: Do you have any reason for your disagreement?
BGWG: No. I am a lifestyle disagreer. I disagree with everyone all the time. The reasons are irrelevant.
Dilbert: You sound smart.
BGWG: No. I am not smart.
Dilbert: And you are attractive too.
BGWG: No. I am ugl... Okay, I see what you are doing.

You are surely smart enough to get my drift?

Do you understand what I mean when I say "Get a mirror"?

Do you recognise that the whole world is using phones- without meaningful evidence of problems- and you are disagreeing.

Hint: you are in that cartoon; you are not Dilbert.

[Hayseed]

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/

[Bored chemist]

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/

I guess it was due to time-travelling mobile phones.

[Hayseed]

I'll bet that even if they found a harmful effect, they would chicken wire houses before stopping cell towers.  This new THz stuff and IoTs, will shortly populate neighborhoods.  And probably denser, then cell towers.  And probably much cheaper.  Great future for RF engineers, but different circuitry.

Just a guess.

[CliveG]

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/

It seems that there is confusion about the origin of the Spanish Flu. The three waves were Jun/Jul 1918, Oct/Nov/Dec 2018 and Feb/Mar 2019. Your 2014 article may well be correct. I cannot find some of the reports that I had from newspapers and medical records. They make interesting reading to se first hand accounts - true or not.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22148/
…But 1918 seems to have been particularly violent. It began mildly, with a spring wave. In fact, it was so mild that some physicians wonder if this disease actually was influenza. Typically, several Italian doctors argued in separate journal articles that this “febrile disease now widely prevalent in Italy [is] not influenza”
…Within a few weeks of that Lancet article appearing, a second pandemic wave swept around the world. It also initially caused investigators to doubt that the disease was influenza—but this time because it was so virulent. It was followed by a third wave in 1919, and significant disease also struck in 1920.
… In rural Kentucky, the Red Cross reported “people starving to death not from lack of food but because the well were panic stricken and would not go near the sick”
…It is very possible that we will never know with certainty where the 1918 virus crossed into man. In the 1920s and 1930s, outstanding investigators in several countries launched massive reviews of evidence searching for the site of origin. They could not definitively answer the question. But they were unanimous in believing that no known outbreak in China could, as one investigator said, “be reasonably regarded as the true forerunner” of the epidemic.

virus.stanford.edu/uda/
…The origins of this influenza variant is not precisely known. It is thought to have originated in China in a rare genetic shift of the influenza virus. The recombination of its surface proteins created a virus novel to almost everyone and a loss of herd immunity. However, a first wave of influenza appeared early in the spring of 1918 in Kansas and in military camps throughout the US.
…The war brought the virus back into the US for the second wave of the epidemic. It first arrived in Boston in September of 1918 through the port busy with war shipments of machinery and supplies.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu
There have been claims that the epidemic originated in the United States. Historian Alfred W. Crosby claimed that the flu originated in Kansas, and popular author John Barry described Haskell County, Kansas, as the point of origin. It has also been claimed that, by late 1917, there had already been a first wave of the epidemic in at least 14 US military camps
…In the United States, the disease was first observed in Haskell County, Kansas, in January 1918, prompting local doctor Loring Miner to warn the U.S. Public Health Service's academic journal. On 4 March 1918, company cook Albert Gitchell reported sick at Fort Riley, an American military facility that at the time was training American troops during World War I, making him the first recorded victim of the flu. Within days, 522 men at the camp had reported sick.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291398/
Confounding definite assignment of a geographic point of origin, the 1918 pandemic spread more or less simultaneously in 3 distinct waves during an ≈12-month period in 1918–1919, in Europe, Asia, and North America (the first wave was best described in the United States in March 1918). Historical and epidemiologic data are inadequate to identify the geographic origin of the virus, and recent phylogenetic analysis of the 1918 viral genome does not place the virus in any geographic context

[CliveG]

I'll bet that even if they found a harmful effect, they would chicken wire houses before stopping cell towers.  This new THz stuff and IoTs, will shortly populate neighborhoods.  And probably denser, then cell towers.  And probably much cheaper.  Great future for RF engineers, but different circuitry.

Just a guess.

I agree. I am trying to get hold of fabric that blocks the radiation. Otherwise I have to live in the sticks where there is no radiation (and not much else). Already the house we are about to sell has aluminium foil in the roof and aluminium mosquito mesh on the windows.

[CliveG]

On the rare occasion that I get a flu I can get rid of it in 24 hours

This sounds more like the common cold than influenza.

Actually it works for a number of infections. Viral and bacterial. When one raises the body temperature to 42 deg C the immune system is at it's peak effectiveness at producing hydrogen peroxide which the immune cells use to destroy their targets. The body needs less energy to maintain the body temperature and can focus on killing pathogens.

The pediatric societies are now saying that one should not try to bring down a child's fever. It is the bodies defense mechanism. The body has built in limiter to stop it getting too high. Only when heat is forced on a child could there be problems - such as being left in a hot car in the sun.

[Bored chemist]

The body needs less energy to maintain the body temperature

No
Try looking at simple thermodynamics. (or asking a ten-year old)
Making things hotter takes more heat

Otherwise I have to live in the sticks where there is no radiation (and not much else).

You will need to live in a fairly deep cave.
However the good news is that the problem's not real.

The body has built in limiter to stop it getting too high.

If you could dial back the dangerous nonsense a bit, that would be good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Febrile_seizure

[CliveG]

Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 12:00:54

    The body has built in limiter to stop it getting too high.

If you could dial back the dangerous nonsense a bit, that would be good.

You are the one who is not logical, and alarmist. Check out the following:

uspharmacist.com/article/managing-fevers-in-otherwise-healthy-children
One of the most persistent misconceptions surrounding fever in children is that fever can lead to seizures, brain damage, and death. Fevers do not cause brain damage or death, and it is important for parents to understand that fever differs from heatstroke.
Pyrexia (fever) differs from hyperthermia caused by heatstroke, which is defined as a core body temperature exceeding 104°F plus impaired central nervous system function attributable to either exposure to high environmental temperatures or exertional fatigue in high ambient temperatures. … Exercise and hot weather are the main causes of heatstroke.

aappublications.org/news/2019/05/03/idsnapshot050319
Evidence supports a beneficial effect of an elevated temperature as well as a possible adverse effect of fever on the clinical outcome of an infection.
Most mammals, reptiles, amphibians and fish experience an elevated core temperature during an infection, suggesting that fever is part of an adaptive host defense response. The metabolically expensive increase in body temperature that accompanies an infection seems unlikely to have evolved unless fever benefits the host. Perhaps some physiological alterations that occur during a febrile response may be responsible for increased resistance to infection.
Certain observations suggest a beneficial relationship between elevated temperature and outcome of an infection. Microbes may replicate less efficiently at an elevated temperature than at a normal temperature. Certain immune responses such as leukocyte migration may be enhanced at higher temperatures. However, treatment of fever is based on the assumption that fever has a harmful effect and that reducing an elevated temperature will be beneficial.

medlineplus.gov/ency/article/003090.htm
Fever is an important part of the body's defense against infection. Most bacteria and viruses that cause infections in people thrive best at 98.6°F (37°C). Many infants and children develop high fevers with mild viral illnesses. Although a fever signals that a battle might be going on in the body, the fever is fighting for, not against the person.
Brain damage from a fever generally will not occur unless the fever is over 107.6°F (42°C). Untreated fevers caused by infection will seldom go over 105°F (40.6°C) unless the child is overdressed or in a hot place.

And why do you think that tribal healers in nearly all societies used sweat lodges where the sick person was placed in a heated hut? Because it worked!!!

When they said red meat and eggs where bad form one I said "Not if I am healthy and workout". I had very low cholesterol Same with salt - I need salt to replace what I sweat out. It is very low in natural foods, and I cramp if I do not have it. Why do you think animals seek it out - salt licks for example, or elephants eating mud high in salt.

Common sense goes long way in many things. I have a natural intuition about things that have helped me a lot during my life.

[CliveG]

Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 12:00:54

    The body needs less energy to maintain the body temperature

No
Try looking at simple thermodynamics. (or asking a ten-year old)
Making things hotter takes more heat

Wow, your logic can really get twisted at times. Especially when you take sentences out of context as you so often do.

The body burns fuel to maintain a temperature that is higher than the ambient. The colder the ambient the more fuel it burns. And the higher the ambient the less fuel it burns. I was proposing raising the ambient temperature quite a bit (not dangerously so).

If the body spend less time on burning fuel for heat it can be more efficient at fighting pathogens. Hence hot room.

Try common sense. A six year old might be able to assist.

[CliveG]

Back to cell radiation. I heard on the radio that there is a big increase in allergies and sinus problems in the big SA cities. The professor said that it was due to an increase in pollen count which in turn was due to an increase in global warming. He said that the pollen count indicators were not a good measure because they only had one actual pollen trap, and the counts were extrapolations and estimates.

There could be another cause in addition which is cell MW. When they turned on our tower, a lady three houses away got bad allergies. Three months later they moved out of the area and she reported that her allergies disappeared almost immediately. Admittedly her case could have other factors, but the timing is suspicious.

Our tenant came back from a ten day vacation. Was relaxed and healthy. Within two days she has been sick with sinusitis.

There are science studies which show that cell MW causes an increase in histamines, and that mast cells and autism may be related. Here are some interesting articles. Some deal with how to reduce one's risk.

mastcell360.com/are-your-cell-phone-wifi-router-and-other-emfs-hurting-your-mast-cell-activation-syndrome-and-histamine-intolerance/
...So why are there some studies showing that EMFs don’t affect people? It is because of the way the study was designed. If you test short term EMF exposure on the general public, you probably won’t see a rise in symptoms. But people with Mast Cell activation Syndrome, Histamine Intolerance, Heavy Metal Toxicity, Mold Illness, Lyme, and certain Genetic Variants are much more sensitive to EMF radiation. Further, the longer you are exposed, the more likely you are to have symptoms.
...5G is another new concern. I’ve been reading reports of people who felt well, went out of town, and were very sick shortly after returning home. They learned that 5G was turned on in their city while they were out of town. There are a lot of reports online of increased EMF related symptoms with 5G. My city will be getting 5G at the end of the year. Do you have 5G yet?

researchgate.net/publication/257461889_Autism_and_EMF_Plausibility_of_a_pathophysiological_link_-_Part_I

...Although autism spectrum conditions (ASCs) are defined behaviorally, they also involve multileveled disturbances of underlying biology that find striking parallels in the physiological impacts of electromagnetic frequency and radiofrequency exposures (EMF/RFR).
…Many studies of people with ASCs have identified oxidative stress and evidence of free radical damage, cellular stress proteins, and deficiencies of antioxidants such as glutathione. Elevated intracellular calcium in ASCs may be due to genetics or may be downstream of inflammation or environmental exposures. Cell membrane lipids may be peroxidized, mitochondria may be dysfunctional, and various kinds of immune system disturbances are common. Brain oxidative stress and inflammation as well as measures consistent with blood-brain barrier and brain perfusion compromise have been documented.
…Various vital but vulnerable mechanisms such as calcium channels may be disrupted by environmental agents, various genes associated with autism or the interaction of both. With dramatic increases in reported ASCs that are coincident in time with the deployment of wireless technologies, we need aggressive investigation of potential ASC - EMF/RFR links.
…The evidence is sufficient to warrant new public exposure standards benchmarked to low-intensity (non-thermal) exposure levels now known to be biologically disruptive, and strong, interim precautionary practices are advocated

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27012122
...Exposure to artificial radio frequency electromagnetic fields (EMFs) has increased significantly in recent decades. Therefore, there is a growing scientific and social interest in its influence on health, even upon exposure significantly below the applicable standards. The intensity of electromagnetic radiation in human environment is increasing and currently reaches astronomical levels that had never before experienced on our planet. The most influential process of EMF impact on living organisms, is its direct tissue penetration. The current established standards of exposure to EMFs in Poland and in the rest of the world are based on the thermal effect. It is well known that weak EMF could cause all sorts of dramatic non-thermal effects in body cells, tissues and organs.
…The phenomenon of electromagnetic hypersensitivity in the form of dermatological disease is associated with mastocytosis. The biopsies taken from skin lesions of patients with EHS indicated on infiltration of the skin layers of the epidermis with mastocytes and their degranulation, as well as on release anaphylactic reaction mediators such as histamine, chymase and tryptase. The number of people suffering from EHS in the world is growing describing themselves as severely dysfunctional, showing multi organ non-specific symptoms upon exposure to low doses of electromagnetic radiation

alisonvickery.com.au/emfs/
…In the middle of these two extremes is where histamine intolerance, mast cell activation, depression, along with many other “syndromes” belong. Many symptoms are the body’s attempt to restore homeostasis. A root cause (or stressor) can be far removed from the symptom.
…And yes it is an imbalance but with a cause often far removed from the brain (think diet, microbiome, brain detoxification, and especially EMFs!).

[syhprum]

When climbing a small mountain on the German Czech border I came across a small tower with a Radar installation upon it it had a warning notice telling you not to stand too close.
When I translated the warning apparently the source of danger was icicles falling from it, yes radar antennas are a source of danger 

[CliveG]

When climbing a small mountain on the German Czech border I came across a small tower with a Radar installation upon it it had a warning notice telling you not to stand too close.
When I translated the warning apparently the source of danger was icicles falling from it, yes radar antennas are a source of danger

Nice one.

Of course, when standing under a dish type antenna, the radiation is directed in a beam over a person. Besides, who would spend a month or two standing under one of these, so the long-term extended dose would not happen. These communication links are not pulsed in power, and in that way are not so problematic biologically.

My wife said that last night she got a headache and felt dizzy after waking from her sleep in the middle of the night. She put on one of the foil hats I have around for when I visit and she said she felt relief. She said that either the tower was putting out more radiation which I think it is, or that she is getting more sensitive with time. I think it is both.

[alancalverd]

Rule 1 of science: Don't think. Measure.

[Bored chemist]

Only when heat is forced on a child could there be problems - such as being left in a hot car in the sun.

... or a hot room.

And febrile epilepsy which the neurologist says may be tower related.

The word "febrile" tells you exactly what it's due to.

[Bored chemist]

My wife said that last night she got a headache and felt dizzy after waking from her sleep in the middle of the night. She put on one of the foil hats I have around for when I visit and she said she felt relief. She said that either the tower was putting out more radiation which I think it is, or that she is getting more sensitive with time. I think it is both.

How do you distinguish that from the placebo effect?

[CliveG]

Rule 1 of science: Don't think. Measure.

I agree. Which is why I have now two meters. One for 800 Mhz to 2.7 GHz and and one for 2.7 GHz to 6 GHz.

But first I think. Of the basics of what I am dealing with. Then how to do an experiment to give more information and provide more facts and observations. Measurement of variables is part of this.