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  4. Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
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Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #60 on: 24/01/2020 17:46:20 »
Quote from: rstormview on 24/01/2020 12:20:22
best rebuttal of such ideas is to present better theories.
You still don't have a theory to rebut.
You seem, somehow, to think the word "theory" means "guess I pulled out of my... elbow".
All you have is blind guesswork.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #61 on: 24/01/2020 22:10:34 »
Quote from: rstormview on 24/01/2020 12:20:22
the best rebuttal of such ideas is to present better theories.

There is no need at all to come up with a better idea in order to know that a proposed idea is wrong. All you have to do is look at the evidence. If the evidence contradicts the proposed idea, then it is wrong. No "better theory" needed.
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Offline rstormview (OP)

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #62 on: 26/01/2020 14:11:03 »
It is both surprising and disappointing that science’s reluctance to consider it may have made a mistaken presumption which misled science to sideline the physics of Newton and Galileo in favour of Quantum solutions. The proposal that protons do not attract electrons but that electrons are natural homers portents the elusive definition of Gravity that eluded Einstein; whose Wikipedia quotation is garble. (see original Paper, A SCIENCE BASED THEORY OF CREATION).
The proposed Gravity theory has still not yet been challenged; a better theory is hopefully awaited.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #63 on: 26/01/2020 14:58:58 »
Quote from: rstormview on 26/01/2020 14:11:03
it may have made a mistaken presumption
What presumption do you think has been made?
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Offline rstormview (OP)

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #64 on: 26/01/2020 15:14:34 »
The 'presumption' was if electrons flow towards protons it must be because protons attract them. Reversing the polarity leads to a logical/scientific definition of Gravity which builds to much much more - besides the restoration of the logical physics of Newton and Galileo.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #65 on: 26/01/2020 15:57:53 »
Quote from: rstormview on 26/01/2020 15:14:34
The 'presumption' was if electrons flow towards protons it must be because protons attract them.

That's not a "presumption".
It is an experimentally verified fact.

What you are effectively saying is that, rather than relying on observed facts, science should adopt your unsupported rambling.

Do you see why science might not do that?
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Offline rstormview (OP)

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #66 on: 26/01/2020 16:12:07 »
I say again, for the umpteenth time, if Protons attract electrons why do they not hit and become absorbed? By what scientific process does attraction reverse into repulsion when in close proximity in order to create hydrogen? That hydrogen becomes created is a fact, the way science suggests it does this is a presumption called quantum.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #67 on: 26/01/2020 17:05:14 »
Quote from: rstormview on 26/01/2020 16:12:07
I say again, for the umpteenth time,
Yes.
You have asked that many times,.
And we have replied many times.
Yet you do not listen.

So I'm not bothering to repeat it.
Read the thread again and again until you understand.

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #68 on: 26/01/2020 17:06:28 »
Quote from: rstormview on 26/01/2020 16:12:07
By what scientific process does attraction reverse into repulsion
It doesn't.
That's an irrational presumption you have made.
The attractive and repulsive terms are both acting all the time.
But the repulsive force is a short rage effect. It wins at short ranges and the electrostatic attraction dominates at longer ranges.

You could have found that out buy actually learning some science.
It's not too late to start...
« Last Edit: 26/01/2020 17:09:25 by Bored chemist »
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Offline rstormview (OP)

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #69 on: 26/01/2020 20:15:21 »
Arrogance is not a response to a very simple question. You have no answered a very simple question, or  anything, you have just browbeaten. If you have answered my simple question, 'what scientific process happens to turn attraction into repulsion when in close proximity? Bluster is not scientific. If you have a direct answer please repeat it here. Rstormview.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #70 on: 26/01/2020 21:04:28 »
Quote from: rstormview on 26/01/2020 20:15:21
If you have a direct answer please repeat it here. Rstormview.
Quote from: Bored chemist on 26/01/2020 17:06:28
That's an irrational presumption you have made.
The attractive and repulsive terms are both acting all the time.
But the repulsive force is a short rage effect. It wins at short ranges and the electrostatic attraction dominates at longer ranges.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #71 on: 27/01/2020 05:23:21 »
Quote from: rstormview on 26/01/2020 15:14:34
The 'presumption' was if electrons flow towards protons it must be because protons attract them.

You're aware that positive charge attracting negative charge is an experimentally verified phenomenon, aren't you? You are also aware, no doubt, that protons have been experimentally verified to have a positive charge and electrons a negative charge, correct? Now put two and two together and what do you get?

Quote from: rstormview on 26/01/2020 16:12:07
if Protons attract electrons why do they not hit and become absorbed?

What would it even mean for an electron to "hit" a proton? I hope you aren't imagining them as little balls. How would the proton absorb it? What would be the result of a proton absorbing an electron?

Quote from: rstormview on 26/01/2020 16:12:07
By what scientific process does attraction reverse into repulsion when in close proximity in order to create hydrogen?

The electromagnetic attraction never reverses into a repulsion. There is another force at work that balances the attraction: electron degeneracy pressure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_degeneracy_pressure Perhaps you'd be interested in this particular quote from the article:

Quote
In 1967, Freeman Dyson showed that solid matter is stabilized by quantum degeneracy pressure rather than electrostatic repulsion.[1][2][3]
« Last Edit: 27/01/2020 05:29:38 by Kryptid »
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Offline Hayseed

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #72 on: 27/01/2020 06:01:34 »
A proton can collide with an electron under certain conditions.   You are taught this as an anti-matter reaction.  A positron is just a low energy proton, and an anti-proton is just a high energy electron.   An electric storm can invert them.

Both particles have the same energy level spectrum.   When the densities are equal......they can touch.......and unfold/unwrap each other. 

When the densities are unequal, they oscillate at a distance.  They yo-yo.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #73 on: 27/01/2020 06:19:10 »
Quote from: Hayseed on 27/01/2020 06:01:34
A positron is just a low energy proton

That isn't even remotely true. Have you studied conservation laws or the strong nuclear force?
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Offline rstormview (OP)

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #74 on: 27/01/2020 10:18:24 »
Thank you all for your replies which I will study carefully. It remains the polarity inversion in the Post gives a very logical definition of Gravity which still remains elusive.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #75 on: 27/01/2020 19:08:26 »
Quote from: rstormview on 27/01/2020 10:18:24
Thank you all for your replies which I will study carefully. It remains the polarity inversion in the Post gives a very logical definition of Gravity which still remains elusive.
That doesn't make sense.
I guess nobody was expecting it to.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #76 on: 27/01/2020 20:12:15 »
Quote from: rstormview on 27/01/2020 10:18:24
It remains the polarity inversion in the Post gives a very logical definition of Gravity which still remains elusive.

If that's true, then why are neutral particles attracted by a gravitational field?
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Offline rstormview (OP)

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #77 on: 28/01/2020 14:45:36 »
Everything is attracted to a gravitational field except aurora Borealis which stands off: Why?
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Offline rstormview (OP)

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #78 on: 28/01/2020 14:49:05 »
Am still waiting for a better theory for Gravity than Einsteins, see Wikipedia.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Has a logical presumption misdirected science down a cul-de-sac?
« Reply #79 on: 28/01/2020 14:51:52 »
Quote from: rstormview on 28/01/2020 14:45:36
Everything is attracted to a gravitational field except aurora Borealis which stands off: Why?
The aurora are hot and thus held up like hot air balloons.
More importantly, they are formed at great height and , quite possibly sink, becoming duller as the do so.
But they are replaced by more from above.


Now; answer Kryptid's question.
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