[Slickscientist]

Are you talking about me?

[Bored chemist]

Are you talking about me?

I was talking about Petrochemicals who, as you pointed out, needs to grow up a bit.

[Slickscientist]

Oh, sorry. I got mixed up with the names petrochemicals and boredchemist. I can’t believe that as chemistry is my favourite of all science subjects.

[alancalverd]

Stay calm, certainly, but failure to complain can be fatal. Especially nowadays.

[Slickscientist]

Sometimes, bit not when when you are arguing about useless things.

[Petrochemicals]

Alan,
What do you think he's going to be if/ when he grows up?

Leader of the Conservative Party? President of the European Union? Unless he was born in the USA, in which case God Help America.

How far will you push this personal attack? perhaps to criminal, regicide etc? It has nothing to do with anything that should be on this site.

[alancalverd]

Regicide, eh? Never thought of you as a king.

[alancalverd]

People are dying this moment! It is a fact so don’t argue about stances and whatever. Try to dave those lives bu following the rules.

The point at issue here is "which rules?" It's a very serious question.

There is a fairly common misconception that the impact of COVID has been significantly less in Sweden than the UK or elsewhere in Europe, despite or even because of far less stringent quarantine rules. As I have been careful to point out, using only the Swedish government's published statistics, they really aren't doing at all well.   

With a similar population and population density, New Zealand has recorded 25 COVID deaths to date, compared with 5,938 in Sweden.  Common sense suggests that the New Zealand model works rather better and should be emulated by anyone seriously wanting to control and eradicate the disease.

[Petrochemicals]

Regicide, eh? Never thought of you as a king.

Psychologically that sounds worrying as 1st you are considering that I am the victim that doesn't tally with your earlier post of what I will become, not what others will do to me, signifying that you seek to victimise me. Secondly thats also a veiled threat of murder.

[alancalverd]

Or exactly the opposite. If I don't think of you as a king, any thoughts of regicide would be irrelevant.

Nor do I see the possibility of your rising to high political office as a threat to your safety, only that of others. For example, the US government has now killed more US citizens in 9 months through COVID than the Wehrmacht and the Imperial Japanese Navy managed in 3 years, and there's a high probability that the President will be re-elected because of it.

[Petrochemicals]

Or exactly the opposite. If I don't think of you as a king, any thoughts of regicide would be irrelevant.

Nor do I see the possibility of your rising to high political office as a threat to your safety, only that of others. For example, the US government has now killed more US citizens in 9 months through COVID than the Wehrmacht and the Imperial Japanese Navy managed in 3 years, and there's a high probability that the President will be re-elected because of it.

Into your rat hole Alan I see.

[acsinuk]

The problem is that the health expert advise is protecting the elderly but sacrificing those of a younger age that desperately need an operation.  Just how stupid is that?
The over 80's should not be allowed into hospital if they contact Covid19 but referred to a nursing home for oxygen treatment. This will protect the NHS from the elderly clogging ICU beds and allow surgeons to get on and operate on those under 65's that really need  surgery and are being left to die at home.

[alancalverd]

The over 80's should not be allowed into hospital if they contact Covid19 but referred to a nursing home for oxygen treatment.

....where they can decline and die unnecessarily whilst infecting the staff, other residents, and their families, as previously demonstrated. The difference between an acute hospital and a nursing home is in its ability to contain and treat infectious disease.

Remember that the elderly have paid for their NHS treatment.  Anyone under the age of 40 (a) has taken more from the state than he has contributed to it and (b) is more likely to survive and recover without needing intensive care than those financially entitled to it.

Hard health economics says that today's acute trauma is tomorrow's bedblocking geriatric. How do we treat racehorses with broken legs, or diseased chickens? Healing the sick is a waste of money - they just come back for more.

Interestingly, the seasonally adjusted excess death rate in the UK was actually negative during the summer. The gutter press made plenty of headlines about more people dying at home, but the place  of death is at worst irrelevant and at best, preferable at home, and it seems that delayed elective treatment may actually be good for you.

[acsinuk]

Quote "Hard health economics says that today's acute trauma is tomorrow's bedblocking geriatric. How do we treat racehorses with broken legs, or diseased chickens? Healing the sick is a waste of money - they just come back for more."
So New Zealand has just voted in euthanasia in a referendum as it helps the chronically sick bow out without suffering further. I know  of many 90+ers who are incontinent and look forward to death and resurrection.   

[Bored chemist]

I know  of many 90+ers who are incontinent and look forward to death and resurrection.   

What about the ones whose bladders and bowels still work? (it seems an odd thing to focus on but...)

There's all the difference in the world between allowing the death of those who are gravely ill, in pain or whatever with no chance of improvement and letting otherwise fit healthy people die because you couldn't be bothered to wear a mask to do your shopping.

[alancalverd]

So New Zealand has just voted in euthanasia in a referendum as it helps the chronically sick bow out without suffering further.

I'm all in favor of euthanasia, but at a time and by the means of my choosing, not yours. And no resurrection, please -  once is enough.

New Zealand seems to be the most (possibly only)  civilised country on earth.

[acsinuk]

I suppose all this inconvenience can stop immediately we get a vaccine  but what happens if covid19 mutates to 20. Surely we are not going to repeat this lockdown procedure next time??

[alancalverd]

No need to wait for a mutation.

Current evidence is that the halflife of COVID antibodies is a couple of months, so the vaccine won't eliminate the virus but just make it a bit less dangerous for medical staff to treat victims. 

[Petrochemicals]

No need to wait for a mutation.

Current evidence is that the halflife of COVID antibodies is a couple of months, so the vaccine won't eliminate the virus but just make it a bit less dangerous for medical staff to treat victims. 

Six months and counting according to today's papers

[acsinuk]

So it is just like a common flu virus and we idiots have over reacted to panicking medical experts.  The NHS needs to be put on a war footing and told to get on with their job and stop scare mongering.
Hopefully, the house of Lords will oppose and delay the lockdown implementation by insisting on suitable amendments to allow normal fit people to continue their lives without fear.