[Dave Lev (OP)]

In this thread I would like to explain how the new mass creation around the SMBH works and why there is no contradiction with the first law of thermodynamics:

Let's start with magnetic field that is generated by the spinning SMBH:

1. Magnetic Field
Black Holes & Time Warps states that a spinning black hole with a net electric charge will have a magnetic field.

Galactic nucleus - the nucleus of the Spiral galaxy is supper massive black hole – Wikipedia: "A supper massive black hole defined mass ranges from100 thousand to 10 billion solar masses. Scientists tend to assume that such a black hole exists at the center of most galaxies in the universe, including the Milky Way."   It holds around hundreds of billions of stars. So clearly, the nucleus creates tremendous power and energy. 
The spin of the SMBH generates ultra powerful magnetic field. 
"A team of researchers has measured the magnetic fields in the vicinity of the suppermassive black hole at the center of NGC 1052."
https://scitechdaily.com/researchers-measure-magnetic-fields-in-the-vicinity-of-a-black-hole/
Two particle jets shoot out from the heart of active galaxy NGC 1052 at the speed of light, apparently originating in the vicinity of a massive black hole.
The team concludes that the magnetic fields provide enough magnetic energy to power the twin jets.
Similar particle jet stream stretches 27,000 light-years from the center of the Milky Way galaxy:
https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/2012-16
"The newfound jets may be related to mysterious gamma-ray bubbles that Fermi detected in 2010. Those bubbles also stretch 27,000 light-years from the center of the Milky Way. However, where the bubbles are perpendicular to the galactic plane, the gamma-ray jets are tilted at an angle of 15 degrees. This may reflect a tilt of the accretion disk surrounding the suppermassive black hole.
"Finkbeiner estimates that a molecular cloud weighing about 10,000 times as much as the Sun would be required"
In order to blow those kind of particles jet stream to that distance of 27,000 LY  it is clear that an Ultra Magnetic field is needed.
ONLY a spinning SMBH can generate that kind of magnetic field!!!

2. New mass creation process:
The gravity and electromagnetism don't contribute to the black hole's expendable energy, but the rotation does.
Chapter 12 of Black Holes & Time Warps does indeed mention that a black hole's rotation can produce radiation. So, new pair of particles can be created around a BH or SMBH.
In order to produce a positron-electron pair, 1.022 MeV of rotational kinetic energy is extracted from the BH
Let's assume that we are looking down on the most inwards side of the accretion disk (or even below) from above.
Let's also assume that electron and positron had been created at some radius below the inmost accretion ring. At the moment of creation they will probably orbit at almost the speed of light.
Please remember that at the moment of creation, the new created particles pair must fully meet the orbital speed for the attitude (or radius) from the SMBH.  It must fully obey to Newton orbital law.
We can get better understanding by look at the following Newton Cannon Ball explanation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_cannonball#/media/File:Newtonsmountainv=7300.gif
If the speed is the orbital speed at that altitude it will go on circling around the Earth along a fixed circular orbit just like the moon.
How Lorentz force works on those new particles pair?
In order to get better understanding let's look at the following video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=135&v=RqSode4HZrE&feature=emb_title
The North/South Poles of the SMBH is up/down with reference to their orbital direction. Therefore, based on that video, one charged particle should be deflected to the left while the other one would be deflected right. Hence, one particle should be deflected inwards to the SMBH direction, while the other one would be deflected outwards to the direction of the accretion disc.
The deflection inwards would decrease its altitude or radius from the SMBH. Therefore, it will face stronger gravity force from the SMBH.
That radius change will force it to fall in as its current orbital velocity would be too low. As it is stated in the following video:
"If the speed is low, it will simply fall back on Earth" (or to the SMBH in our case)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_cannonball#/media/File:Newtonsmountainv=6000.gif

On the other hand, the other particles must be deflected outwards from the SMBH. Therefore, its speed would be too high with reference to its current radius. Even a small deflection should bring it under the influence of the inwards side of the accretion disc. At that aria it would have to obey to the magnetic forces/pressures that are generated by the accretion disc itself. We know that the average orbital velocity at the accretion disc is about 0.3c. So, the new arrival particle might bang with the other particles already orbiting at the inwards side of the accretion ring and reduces its velocity from almost the speed of light to about 0.3c. At that moment it would become a new member at the plasma.
With regards to temperature – A new created particle must come with Ultra high temp. Adding to that the ultra high pressures, forces, Electric current flow and fusion activity in the plasma would increase the temp to almost 10^9 c at the accretion disc.   
This separation deflection process is vital. Without it, any new created particle pair would be eliminated at the same moment of their creation as each particle carry a negative charged with reference to the other.

3. Energy transformations
The requested energy for electron-positron pair is 1.022 MeV. That energy had been taken from the energy of the SMBH by the transformation of the magnetic field.
So, theoretically, the SMBH had lost 1.022Mev (due to the creation of the particle pair) and gain only half of that as the mass of a falling in particle as stated by kryptid:

If 1.022 MeV of rotational kinetic energy is extracted from the hole in order to produce a positron-electron pair, then the black hole can only get 0.511 MeV of that energy back by consuming one of the particles. It would only get back half of the energy that it expended.

Any method you use to try to get a system to create net energy is a violation of the first law of thermodynamics. You might as well stop trying.

However, at the moment of the creation the orbital velocity is almost at the speed of light. That speed is given for free from the Ultra gravity force of the SMBH.
Hence, the Kinetic orbital velocity of each particle -with mass m at the moment of creation (assuming that its velocity is the speed of light) is as follow:
Ek = 1/2 m v^2 = 1/2 m c^2
Each falling in particle (as electron for example) is increasing the total mass of the BH by only 0.511 MeV.

However, It also increases the spin of the SMBH due to Conservation of momentum and Tidal. We only discuss on a tiny particle. However, unlimited number of falling in particles can have a similar impact as a falling star with the same total mass.
So the SMBH gravity force had contributed Ultra rotational energy to the created particle pair for free. Some of that rotational energy is transformed back to the SMBH due to Conservation of momentum and due to Tidal energy transformation.
Please remember that Tidal forces transform existing orbital or rotational energy into heat energy.
Therefore, this process doesn't contradict the first law of thermodynamics as was assumed by Kryptid:

Even if you do have a valid way of getting a black hole to produce matter and eject it the way you want it to, that still ignores the fact that a black hole cannot generate unlimited mass-energy. The mechanisms are irrelevant. The specifics are unimportant. The first law of thermodynamics simply won't let your model work. No amount of figuring will allow you to get more mass-energy out of the black hole than was there to begin with. Doing so would violate the first law by definition.

Since the total amount of orbital/rotational energy in a New particle pair around the SMBH is ultra high (and it is for free due to the SMBH mighty gravity force), Conservation of momentum, tidal heating process, SMBH Spin, Transformation of energy by magnetic force to new creation particles pair cycle can go on forever.

Conclusions:
As the universe age is infinite, than unlimited number of falling in particles should increase dramatically the total Energy & mass of the BH and converts it over time to a SMBH without violating the first law of thermodynamics.

[Bored chemist]

As the universe age is infinite

Not according to science, it isn't.

[Kryptid]

You already have a thread about this. Go post in that one.

[Dave Lev (OP)]

You already have a thread about this. Go post in that one.

O.K
I will copy the message over there.

[acsinuk]

The references you make to the observations of observatories witnessing the formation of large magnetic fields at the heart of most galaxies is excellent news.
In fact I believe that Super Massive Black Hole [SMBH] is the magnetic hub around which the galaxies stars are spun in spirals using the magnoflux spin effect. 
If planetary matter falls into the hub its charges are annihilated with the extra rotational spin energy being ejected upwards.  If star remnant anti-matter falls into the hub its charges are annihilated and the extra inertia energy is ejected downwards     




 

[Bored chemist]

I believe that Super Massive Black Hole [SMBH] is the magnetic hub around which the galaxies stars are spun in spirals using the magnoflux spin effect. 

Nobody else does, and you don't seem to have evidence.
You seem to be the only one who thinks that "he magnoflux spin effect." is real.

[Kryptid]

If star remnant anti-matter falls into the hub its charges are annihilated and the extra inertia energy is ejected downwards     

There is no evidence that stars contain significant antimatter.

[evan_au]

a spinning black hole with a net electric charge

A black hole will not have a significant electric charge, as the charge will be immediately neutralised by the surrounding matter.
- This applies to both spinning and non-spinning black holes

It is thought that the magnetic field comes from the highly conductive plasma of the in-spiraling accretion disk.

[Kryptid]

It is thought that the magnetic field comes from the highly conductive plasma of the in-spiraling accretion disk.

Although you are correct, trying to convince Dave of that is futile.

[Dave Lev (OP)]

The references you make to the observations of observatories witnessing the formation of large magnetic fields at the heart of most galaxies is excellent news.

Thanks

In fact I believe that Super Massive Black Hole [SMBH] is the magnetic hub around which the galaxies stars are spun in spirals using the magnoflux spin effect.

Not exactly.
Super Massive Black Hole [SMBH] is the magnetic hub around which the galaxies stars are spun in spirals using the magnoflux spin effect Newton gravity force. [/quote]

If planetary matter falls into the hub its charges are annihilated with the extra rotational spin energy being ejected upwards.  If star remnant anti-matter falls into the hub its charges are annihilated and the extra inertia energy is ejected downwards     

Nothing from outside can fall into the SMBH, unless it is one new created charged particle (out of the pair), that was forced to fall in due to Lorentz force.
The magnetic force around the SMBH is so massive that it works as a magnetic shield around it.
Any particle that will dare to come closer to the accretion disc from outside will be boosted upwards/downwards to the Positive/Negative poles at almost the speed of light. Actually our scientists have measured a velocity of 0.8c in the molecular jet stream.
We clearly see that molecular jet stream in our galaxy:

Similar particle jet stream stretches 27,000 light-years from the center of the Milky Way galaxy:
https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/2012-16
"The newfound jets may be related to mysterious gamma-ray bubbles that Fermi detected in 2010. Those bubbles also stretch 27,000 light-years from the center of the Milky Way.

So, only "Ultra high magnetic force" can boost that molecular jet stream at 0.8c to a distance of 27,000 LY directly to the magnetic poles above and below the accretion disc.
That kind of ultra high magnetic force could ONLY be created by the mighty spinning SMBH itself.
Don't forget that the estimated mass of the SMBH is 4*10^6 Sun mass while in the accretion disc there is only 3 sun mass.

A black hole will not have a significant electric charge, as the charge will be immediately neutralised by the surrounding matter.
- This applies to both spinning and non-spinning black holes
It is thought that the magnetic field comes from the highly conductive plasma of the in-spiraling accretion disk.

As I have stated, a spinning SMBH can generate ultra high magnetic force. We see it clearly.
The accertion disc (with its 3 Sun mass) can only generate low magnetic field (comparing to the spinning SMBH) that might work locally at the disc itself.

There is no evidence that stars contain significant antimatter.

A new created particle pair (around a BH or SMBH) has a positive charged particle and a negative charged particle. I assume that we can call one matter and the other one antimatter.
Lorenz force directs one inwards to the SMBH and one outwards to the accretion disc.
So, if a particle in the accretion disc is considered as "matter", it is clear that in the SMBH there is "Antimatter".
Therefore, BHs and especially SMBHs hold most/all the antimatter in the Universe.
So, there is no need to hold antimatter in any star.
The matter in that molecular jet stream must fall eventually to the galactic disc near the SMBH, but outside the direct impact of the SMBH magnetic field. As they get there they are accumulated in gas clouds. In those gas clouds most of the new star forming activities takes place.
I will give further explanation about the whole process in Theory D thread.

[Bored chemist]

The magnetic force around the SMBH is so massive that it works as a magnetic shield around it.

But that magnetic field is mediated by virtual photons- which can't escape the event horizon.

As I have stated, a spinning SMBH can generate ultra high magnetic force. We see it clearly.

No, as I just pointed out.

[Dave Lev (OP)]

As I have stated, a spinning SMBH can generate ultra high magnetic force. We see it clearly.

No, as I just pointed out.

Please see the following message from Kryptid:

. Black Holes & Time Warps states that a spinning black hole with a net electric charge will have a magnetic field.

[Dave Lev (OP)]

It is thought that the magnetic field comes from the highly conductive plasma of the in-spiraling accretion disk.

Although you are correct, trying to convince Dave of that is futile.

Dear Kryptid

The ratio in mass between the accretion disc to SMBH is more than 1 to 1,000,000.
So, do you really consider that an accretion disc can generate magnetic field that is stronger than a spinning SMBH hole with a net electric charge?

[Bored chemist]

So, do you really consider that an accretion disc can generate magnetic field that is stronger than a spinning SMBH hole with a net electric charge?

Who cares?
The smbh won't have much of a charge, so the point is moot.

A black hole will not have a significant electric charge, as the charge will be immediately neutralised by the surrounding matter.

[Dave Lev (OP)]

So, do you really consider that an accretion disc can generate magnetic field that is stronger than a spinning SMBH hole with a net electric charge?

Who cares?
The smbh won't have much of a charge, so the point is moot.

Did you read the following message?

The spin of the SMBH generates ultra powerful magnetic field.
"A team of researchers has measured the magnetic fields in the vicinity of the suppermassive black hole at the center of NGC 1052."
https://scitechdaily.com/researchers-measure-magnetic-fields-in-the-vicinity-of-a-black-hole/
Two particle jets shoot out from the heart of active galaxy NGC 1052 at the speed of light, apparently originating in the vicinity of a massive black hole.
The team concludes that the magnetic fields provide enough magnetic energy to power the twin jets.
Similar particle jet stream stretches 27,000 light-years from the center of the Milky Way galaxy:
https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/2012-16
"The newfound jets may be related to mysterious gamma-ray bubbles that Fermi detected in 2010. Those bubbles also stretch 27,000 light-years from the center of the Milky Way. However, where the bubbles are perpendicular to the galactic plane, the gamma-ray jets are tilted at an angle of 15 degrees. This may reflect a tilt of the accretion disk surrounding the suppermassive black hole.
"Finkbeiner estimates that a molecular cloud weighing about 10,000 times as much as the Sun would be required"
In order to blow those kind of particles jet stream to that distance of 27,000 LY  it is clear that an Ultra Magnetic field is needed.
ONLY a spinning SMBH can generate that kind of magnetic field!!!

Please look at the image of that twin jets:
https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/hires/2012/ghostlygamma.jpg
So, we have twin molecular jets that are boosted at a speed of 0.8c to distance of 27,000 LY.
Our scientists claim that:
"The team concludes that the magnetic fields provide enough magnetic energy to power the twin jets."
After all of that how can you claim that the magnetic power of the SMBH is neglected???