The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. On the Lighter Side
  3. New Theories
  4. Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?

  • 14 Replies
  • 3794 Views
  • 0 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« on: 19/04/2020 18:28:31 »
If spacetime is a cubic lattice shouldn't the speed of light be faster if the photons travel along diagonals of the cubes? It's a longer distance along the diagonals by a factor of sqrt(3).
Logged
 



Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    11%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« Reply #1 on: 19/04/2020 18:41:56 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 19/04/2020 18:28:31
If spacetime is a cubic lattice
It isn't.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline Janus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 951
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 268 times
Re: Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« Reply #2 on: 19/04/2020 20:23:05 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 19/04/2020 18:28:31
If spacetime is a cubic lattice shouldn't the speed of light be faster if the photons travel along diagonals of the cubes? It's a longer distance along the diagonals by a factor of sqrt(3).
Whatever gave you the idea that space-time is a cubic lattice?
Logged
 

Offline Bill S

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 3630
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 114 times
Re: Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« Reply #3 on: 19/04/2020 20:47:17 »
Possibly somewhere like this.

http://energywavetheory.com/spacetime/   

Quote
A lattice structure is proposed to be a body-centered cubic (bcc) lattice, similar to a formation commonly seen in molecules.

Logged
There never was nothing.
 

Offline evan_au

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11035
  • Activity:
    9%
  • Thanked: 1486 times
Re: Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« Reply #4 on: 19/04/2020 23:07:49 »
Wolfram's hypothesis is that spacetime is a non-cubic lattice.
See discussion at: https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=79300.0

As Wolfram points out, near a black hole, light propagates very differently.
...and black holes are not cubes!
Logged
 



Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« Reply #5 on: 20/04/2020 10:43:04 »
Quote from: Janus on 19/04/2020 20:23:05
Whatever gave you the idea that space-time is a cubic lattice?

I guessed.

A tetrahedron lattice also has paths not along the edges.
Logged
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21159
  • Activity:
    69.5%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« Reply #6 on: 20/04/2020 11:19:38 »
The speed of light is determined by the permissivity and permeability of the vacuum. By definition a vacuum cannot have a structure or polarity and its constants cannot change with time or direction.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline puppypower

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1652
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 125 times
Re: Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« Reply #7 on: 20/04/2020 12:03:06 »
The speed of light is the ground state reference of the universe. This ground state or zero point of the universe, does not change. It is like sea level or C-level, for the universe.

If we took photons and increased their frequency to gamma and beyond, eventually the photons will split into matter and antimatter pairs. Matter and anti-matter only appear at the upper limits of energy/photons. Matter does not appear from radio waves; lower limits. Matter and antimatter is at the upper potential of energy and photons. Energy or photons , which all move at the speed of light define the floor of the universe; ground state.

Matter and mass exist within inertial references where space-time exists Since matter and mass form only at the upper limits of energy/photons, inertial reference is at higher potential than the speed of light reference. The speed of light reference is the floor, while matter-inertial is above the floor, all the way to the ceiling.

If we plug the speed of light, into the equations of special relativity, mass, time and distance become infinite. The speed of light mathematically creates a discontinuity. Below is the equation for time.



The discontinuity at C means that space-time becomes discontinuous at C. Velocity requires time and distance working together as the equation for velocity= d/t. However, at C since time and distance become infinite and discontinuous; V=d/t does not exist per se. Or if we plug in the math, it always equal to one star; d/t=(∞/∞)=1*. Velocity not longer applies at and beyond the discontinuity at C.

Since the floor or the C-level of the universe is at the speed of light, as velocity decreases below C, time and distance become continuous and finite and V=d/t applies. These inertial states are at higher potential than the ground state at C.  E=MC2 implies the equivalence of matter and energy but each have a difference reference on opposite sides of the discontinuity. 

The concept of relative reference allows is to use the most convenient reference from which to view the universe. Calling the earth zero is convenient. However, this relative reference tradition and choice makes it harder to answer simple questions like why the speed of light is the top velocity of the universe, or why matter only appears at the upper limits of energy, and not at the bottom as implied by our choice of relative reference?

If we use the speed of light as the ground state from the POV of a relative reference choice, so many things and mysteries are easier to explain.
 
« Last Edit: 20/04/2020 12:08:43 by puppypower »
Logged
 

Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« Reply #8 on: 20/04/2020 13:03:09 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 20/04/2020 11:19:38
By definition a vacuum cannot have a structure

It must have structure, otherwise the permittivity and permeability would have been equal to zero.
Logged
 



Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« Reply #9 on: 20/04/2020 13:18:41 »
Quote from: puppypower on 20/04/2020 12:03:06
These inertial states are at higher potential than the ground state at C.

Why isn't matter unstable then?
Logged
 

Offline Bobolink

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 170
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« Reply #10 on: 20/04/2020 16:48:51 »
Quote from: puppypower on 20/04/2020 12:03:06
The speed of light is the ground state reference of the universe.
This is one several meaningless mantras you like to repeat.
Quote from: puppypower on 20/04/2020 12:03:06
It is like sea level or C-level, for the universe.
Meaningless.  It is funny after all these years you still cannot even figure out that the speed of light is denoted by 'c', not 'C'.
Quote from: puppypower on 20/04/2020 12:03:06
If we took photons and increased their frequency to gamma and beyond, eventually the photons will split into matter and antimatter pairs.
Not true.  Photons that are above 1.02 MeV can result in pair production, but photons do not just turn into an electron-positrons at high energy.  Most high energy photons that interact with matter result in ionization of atoms, not pair production.  If the photons are moving through a vacuum will not undergo pair production.
Quote from: puppypower on 20/04/2020 12:03:06
Matter and antimatter is at the upper potential of energy and photons.
Wrong as pointed out above.
Quote from: puppypower on 20/04/2020 12:03:06
The discontinuity at C means that space-time becomes discontinuous at C.
First you mean 'c'.  Secondly, wrong yet again!  It means you cannot go the speed of light.  You really don't seem to get any of this.  It is like you wear your ignorance as a badge of honor. 
Quote from: puppypower on 20/04/2020 12:03:06
If we use the speed of light as the ground state from the POV of a relative reference choice, so many things and mysteries are easier to explain.
Completely wrong and inane, but definitely easier than doing physics.
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: hamdani yusuf

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    11%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« Reply #11 on: 20/04/2020 18:10:56 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 20/04/2020 13:03:09
Quote from: alancalverd on 20/04/2020 11:19:38
By definition a vacuum cannot have a structure

It must have structure, otherwise the permittivity and permeability would have been equal to zero.
No.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline puppypower

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1652
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 125 times
Re: Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« Reply #12 on: 21/04/2020 12:02:38 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 20/04/2020 13:18:41
Quote from: puppypower on 20/04/2020 12:03:06
These inertial states are at higher potential than the ground state at C.

Why isn't matter unstable then?

When high energy photons split into matter and anti-matter, anti-matter acts as a catalyst, and allows matter to spontaneously convert back to energy. In our universe, anti-matter is quite rare, compared to matter, which means the direct or the catalytic lowering of matter potential, back to energy, is inhibited.

In chemical reactions, before a reactant can convert to products, it first needs to climb an activation energy hill. Once at the top, it slides down the other side to products. When anti-matter is present, this hill is made quite small so matter behaves in an unstable way spontaneously converting back to energy. However, without anti-matter, the activation energy hill is extremely large such that matter can no longer spontaneously convert to energy. Instead it converts piecemeal, via the forces of nature, energy and entropy.

If you plug into the special relativity equation for mass, for mass to move at speed of light and reach the reference of energy, it will take infinite energy to climb the hill. There is a  permanent discontinuity between matter and energy, which is why mass cannot move at the speed of light and photons, once formed, start out at the speed of light.

Since mass cannot travel at the speed of light and mass is the ceiling, inertial reference, by existing at the ceiling, with matter, is at higher potential than the speed of light reference, which is at the floor.  These are separated, by a discontinuity.

One point of possible misunderstanding is, photons travel at the speed of light. However they also show inertial affects such as red shift. Photons exist within the discontinuity between the floor and ceiling. They have one leg in each world. There are a catalytic bridge for piecememt conversion of matter back to energy and early in the universe, energy to matter.

If photons were only in the speed of light reference, period, all photons would all appear the same, since at the speed of light, time and distance (frequency and wavelength) would become infinite, therefore all photons would merge into a type of visual homogeneity.  Yet we see photons, which travel at the speed of light, with finite and inertial wavelengths and frequencies, which is not what you expect to see when something moves at the speed of light. All photons should be red shifted to infinite wavelength at the speed of light, but they are not, because photons have two connected, yet separated properties; floor and ceiling.

Photons although traveling at the speed of light, are not fully in the ground state. Even the lowest energy photons  have some potential with the ground state at C, due to finite inertial properties; finite wavelength and frequency. Photons are the long and slow bridge or catalyst for matter conversion back to energy. They exist in the gap between the C-ground state and the higher potential inertial states.

Relative reference gives us a choice where we wish place our POV. We can call floor the ceiling or ceiling the floor. I was educated in the old way and knows about the good and bad from this. The new relative reference POV; matter at the ceiling, has many advantages.

What may bother some is connected to the idea of space-time being dissociated at the speed of light, allowing time and distance to act independently of each other. This is what discontinuities do. Infinite is not a tangible thing, but a nebulous and wide gap with finite.
Logged
 



Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    11%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« Reply #13 on: 21/04/2020 12:12:20 »
Quote from: puppypower on 21/04/2020 12:02:38
anti-matter acts as a catalyst,
No, it doesn't.

Why do you post this sort of stuff?
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Why doesn't the Speed of Light Change?
« Reply #14 on: 22/04/2020 17:02:13 »
Quote from: puppypower on 21/04/2020 12:02:38
All photons should be red shifted to infinite wavelength at the speed of light, but they are not, because photons have two connected, yet separated properties; floor and ceiling.

Matter ought to be on the floor, and the floor and ceiling is not interchangeable.
Logged
 



  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags:
 
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.431 seconds with 62 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.