[Bored chemist]

when you aren't in it, but mine seems not to be inhabited by any mammals, so it is less likely to deliver infectious aerosol than, say, Tesco's checkout queue.

It is plainly true that an uninhabited acr can't infect anyone.
So I don't know why you raised that point.

But unless you have a decontamination shower and a change of clothes in the car park, when you get into your car, having been hanging out with the people in the queue, it's absurd to think it's only your gloves that they coughed on.
Gloves still don't make you some kind of superhero who can dodge contamination of all the rest of you.
Thinking your car is "sterile" when you put your grubby self into it is the sort of "I had gloves on; I am invincible" problem that spreads the virus.

[Bored chemist]

Life is not entirely risk free and always ends in death, but some of us like to look before we cross the road. 

A better analogy; some people don't look much; they just listen.
They think they are fine, because they listened carefully.

They get hit by a milk float.

Their precautions weren't as good as they thought they were, so they stopped paying attention- and got sideswiped.

[alancalverd]

it's absurd to think it's only your gloves that they coughed on.

which is why I don't. They are however the garment that has most probably acquired infection by contact with contaminated surfaces.

Not sure where the "superhero" stuff came from. Have you been following Trumpf's "badge of honor" poppycock? Better a live coward than a dead hero (apart from Trump, that is.)

"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots. There are very few old, bold pilots."

[alancalverd]

Here's a true contamination story from the memoirs I probably won't publish.

Two cargo handlers were loading radioactive material at an airport "somewhere in Britain". One said the load straps felt sticky and he had a metallic taste in his mouth. They finished the job, closed up, then reported to the ramp manager that they thought they had been contaminated, so now we have three possible contaminees. The plane departs for a 1.5 hour flight, as nobody has spoken to the pilot.

Manager very properly called the airport fire brigade who are first responders to all contamination incidents. Fireman turns up with his Geiger counter and says "nothing I can see, but it might be low energy or alpha, so best get to the hospital". So he had been awake during the lecture, but now we have four contaminees. They call for a crew bus and all four plus the now suspect driver make their way to the hospital, having alerted the police so they get priority parking near the physics lab (boy, do we train these guys well!) Police sensibly call out the local fire brigade, and by now the Press and local radio have got hold of the story, so there's quite a crowd when the bus arrives.

The fuzz cordon off an area and several firefighters stand around the bus, wearing their HAZMAT kit and respirators. The sun is shining. Great newspaper and TV pictures. The physics department send out the duty investigator who by sheer luck of the draw is the only staff member who might be pregnant. She can't measure anything outside the bus so gets inside. We now have 6 or 6.5 potential contaminees, and the fire crew are beginning to wilt in the sunshine.

After much ado it is decided to take every person from the bus, plus various unconscious and unhappy firefighters, through the decon shower, bag up their clothes with instructions to take them home and burn them, and when they have recovered (anti-nuclear tea and biscuits work wonders) send them away in scrubs. IIRC the total was around 12 scrubbed bodies and a lot of incinerated uniforms.

At this stage my phone rings: advice please? As I'm 400 miles away I call the receiving airport and ask "Is the package intact?" "Yes." "Any contamination?" "No."

[Petrochemicals]

As I said, gloves on before entry and throughout the process. It is entirely possible that I contaminate the credit card, which is why I decontaminate it on returning home. I assume that everything outside my home, car or plane is contaminated (Civil Defence nuclear war training).

But why gloves then, you will be contaminated along with the clothing ?

Being a big boy*, I can remove my own gloves and pay a professional lady to remove my clothes. Sometimes she wears rubber gloves and nothing else, sometimes the whole nurse's kit. Then we get in the shower together. The Tesco ritual just adds a frisson of delayed gratification. And olive oil.

*she tells me so

Hmmmmmm...

[Bored chemist]

Not sure where the "superhero" stuff came from.

It's a widely known problem in health and safety.
People act as if PPE gives them superpowers.

So, they think. for example that they think

the car or plane

is a

sterile environment.

And when I say

it's absurd to think it's only your gloves that they coughed on.

You say

I don't.

even though you would have  to think that in order to maintain the idea that by taking them off you are not

carrying your sputum into my sterile environment.

The really weird bit is that you know that it takes more than removal of a pair of gloves...

take every person from the bus, plus various unconscious and unhappy firefighters, through the decon shower,

But you ignore it all.
Are you going to get yourself a cape to go with them?

[alancalverd]

Your idea of the superhero mentality is at odds with that of the selfstyled  COVID heroes of the USA who parade through the streets with guns and attack anyone wearing a mask or gloves. Fortunately this is a selflimiting group of Trump-worshipping morons, but they will probably win the next presidential election before they die.

Fun story, probably apocryphal. Cabin crew tells Mohammed Ali to fasten his seat belt. MA says "Superman don't need no seat belt". Nice lady says "Superman don't need no airplane."

By all means be a hero. I'll stick to cowardice in the face of an invisible enemy.

[Bored chemist]

YOu can get stupidity on both sides.

Thinking your car is sterile is roughly as stupid as the Trump supporters- the difference is that if you think the gloves magically keep you safe, you are only likely to kill yourself.

[alancalverd]

Who mentioned magic? Or absolute safety? But I have it on good authority (yourself) that

from: alancalverd on 19/05/2020 23:02:10
viruses multiply.

Only inside  a compatible host.
In other circumstance  they decay- very much like radioactivity.
The half-life varies considerably with circumstances. On a warm dry surface in bright sunshine, it's probably down to seconds.

which is a pretty good description of my car. It isn't a batmobile.

Of all the hundreds of aviators I have ever known, only three have had their lives saved by a parachute. One had the displeasure of bailing out of a flaming Spitfire; one was actually testing a new parachute that failed, so he deployed the reserve; one was flying a glider that broke up in a thunder cloud.   Slim odds, but I would be foolish not to wear one in a glider or when doing aerobatics. To date, nobody has ever been saved  from an airliner ditching by wearing a lifejacket, but I presume you watch the drill every time.

Is it foolish to wear gloves when handling known toxic or infectious material? Then why not wear them when handling potentially infectious material?   

[Bored chemist]

I may be forced to revisit my views on masks in the workplace.
https://dilbert.com/strip/2020-05-21

[Bored chemist]

If it's been parked outside in the sunshine for a few hours, a car is probably pretty much guaranteed free of coronavirus- until you get into it.

[Bored chemist]

Then why not wear them when handling potentially infectious material?   

It isn't a matter of wearing the gloves which is a problem.
It's a matter of thinking the gloves somehow make you invincible.

[alancalverd]

You are the only person who seems to think that. Yesterday's TV images of Southend beach suggested that the bulk (I use the word advisedly) of the population think Speedos and bikinis make you invincible.

[Bored chemist]

You are the only person who seems to think that. Yesterday's TV images of Southend beach suggested that the bulk (I use the word advisedly) of the population think Speedos and bikinis make you invincible.

I don't need to go as far as Southend.
I can just go back in this thread and find someone who thinks that taking his gloves off magically keeps his car sterile.

[alancalverd]

Your belief in magic astounds me. It's worth learning how to strip protective gloves correctly.

[Bored chemist]

Your belief in magic astounds me. It's worth learning how to strip protective gloves correctly.

I'm not the one who believes in it, but tell me, how else does taking your gloves (but not other contaminated clothing) keep your car sterile?
You say it happens.
There is no non-magical mechanism.
So you must believe in magic.

That's the problem with gloves; they make people believe they are magically safe.

[alancalverd]

how else does taking your gloves (but not other contaminated clothing) keep your car sterile?

Who said it did? It started clean and I have flipped the items most likely to be contaminated by inhalation and contact, thus reasonably reducing but by no means eliminating the possibility of contamination. Not quite the same as working in a known toxic dust atmosphere, where we strip off and bag the coverall too, but I can change clothes at home and leave the car to sterilise itself in the sunshine. Good idea not to wipe nose on sleeve whilst driving. And of course if I'm working in a highly infectious area (not this time - I'm designated "vulnerable" in the present circumstances - but you know the drill) I wear the whole kit.

Risk assessment is the order of the day.

[Bored chemist]

Who said it did?

You

my sterile environment.