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  4. How does the expansion of space work?
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How does the expansion of space work?

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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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How does the expansion of space work?
« on: 19/05/2020 00:23:25 »
》Transferred from thread : Does gravity attract masses in space , or does it curve space between them ?
Link : www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=67385.new;
topicseen#new
Ref : Reply 56 - 97 .
*Improved Metaphor .
The standard representation of gravity is a flat surface , subjected to an attractive force from "beneath" , with enjoined objects at the vertex of hyperbolic-cones , pointing towards "downwards" gravity sources . This 3-D imagery does not fully represent the 4-dimensional nature of actual "gravity-wells" . In reality , "Round-Tesseracts" is better as a description of them . This picture engages the travel-in-time aspect of an object's vector , not just the three-dimensional one . It explains why objects in a "gravity-well" deviate from a Newtonian trajectory , particularly when higher gravitational values and velocities are involved . The flip-side of this relativistic distortion is the mass-change; as the engaged object travels faster into the future , travel in any other direction becomes more difficult . This slows the passage of time for that object , while increasing it's kinetic energy content in a relativistic manner .
Interestingly , this effect does apply , even when an object is stationary in a gravity-well . This provides proof positive that gravity moves objects (mass-energy) into the future .
Addendum : These distortions have an effect upon all matter and energy entrained therein , and are likely responsible for the ironically named illusion of "Dark-Matter" .
The aforementioned effects would have predominated in the early universe , but have since reduced , allowing an accelerated dissipation of the present-day universe . The cause of that being a great drop in intergalactic gravity-density , as matter-energy , especially that of the "fabric/matrix" of space , became ever more concentrated in galaxies and their clusters . Relatively , time now passes far more quickly , than in the early universe . As this universe ages , time will pass ever faster . Eventually , it will be infinitely fast , and will end , disappearing from the multiverse entirely !
*Aren't exouniversal physics grand ! 
*To examine possible composition of space , read Reply # 12 .
P.M.
》Ref : Is there a "force of gravity"? www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=40810.new;topicseen#new   
》Ref.2 : How do we "know" that the universe is expanding ?
www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=66933.topicseen#new   
》Ref.3 : Can the vacuum be affected by gravity ?
www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=74884.topicseen#new
》Ref.4 : Are there different types of gravity ?
www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=74736.topicseen#new 
》Ref.5 : Why do photons slow in a strong gravitational field?
www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=67580.topicseen#new
*Ref.6 : Daily.Galaxy>Dark.Matter - Is Disappearing Since the Big.Bang
https://dailygalaxy.com/2019/07/dark-matter-of-the-universe-is-disappearing-since-big-bang/
*Ref.7 : Viktor Toth ; Quora Thread:
www.quora.com/In-the-early-universe-electromagnetic-and-weak-forces-were-combined-to-form-electroweak-force-But-as-the-universe-started-to-cool-down-the-force-was-separated-The-universe-still-expands-and-cools-down-so-can-a-similar-happen-in-the-future?
>
www.quora.com/In-the-early-universe-electromagnetic-and-weak-forces-were-combined-to-form-electroweak-force-But-as-the-universe-started-to-cool-down-the-force-was-separated-The-universe-still-expands-and-cools-down-so-can-a?ch=99&share=18812afa&srid=Ck49x 
« Last Edit: 15/01/2021 12:29:25 by Professor Mega-Mind »
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #1 on: 19/05/2020 14:09:19 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 19/05/2020 00:23:25
*Improved Metaphor .
The standard representation of gravity is a flat surface , subjected to an attractive force from "beneath" , with enjoined objects at the vertex of hyperbolic-cones , pointing towards "downwards" gravity sources . This 3-D imagery does not fully represent the 4-dimensional nature of actual "gravity-wells" . In reality , "Round-Tesseracts" is better as a description of them . This picture engages the travel-in-time aspect of an object's vector , not just the three-dimensional one . It explains why objects in a "gravity-well" deviate from a Newtonian trajectory , particularly when higher gravitational values and velocities are involved . The flip-side of this relativistic distortion is the mass-change; as the engaged object travels faster into the future , travel in any other direction becomes more difficult . This slows the passage of time for that object , while increasing it's kinetic energy content in a relativistic manner .
Interestingly , this effect does apply , even when object is stationary in a gravity-well . This provides proof positive that gravity moves objects (mass-energy) into the future .
Addendum : These distortions have an effect upon all matter and energy entrained therein , and are likely responsible for the ironically named illusion of "Dark-Matter" .
The aforementioned effects would have predominated in the early universe , but have since reduced , allowing an accelerated dissipation of the present-day universe . The cause of that being a great drop in intergalactic gravity-density , as matter-energy became ever more concentrated in galaxies and their clusters . Relatively , time now passes far more quickly , than in the early universe . As this universe ages , time will pass ever faster . Eventually , it will be infinitely fast , and will end , disappearing from the multiverse entirely !

*Aren't exo-universal physics grand !
P.M.  .🤯

Please keep posts like this confined to "New Theories".
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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #2 on: 19/05/2020 14:19:41 »
Negative , Mr. Critic ...
It is a relavent response to a reply in this thread , ergo... it belongs here , whether you agree with it or not .
Note : You'd be better of addressing some of the wildly divergent blather that often pops up in these threads (calling Opportunity) .
P.M.  .🙄
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #3 on: 19/05/2020 14:25:57 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 19/05/2020 14:19:41
It is a relavent response to a reply in this thread , ergo... it belongs here , whether you agree with it or not .

The problem isn't whether or not it is relevant. The problem is that it is not the current view of mainstream physics. We don't need laypeople coming to this forum seeking answers and think that what you just said is the modern scientific stance.

Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 19/05/2020 14:19:41
Note : You'd be better of addressing some of the wildly divergent blather that often pops up in these threads (calling Opportunity) .

I'll call it out if and when I find it (I don't look at every thread on the forum).
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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #4 on: 19/05/2020 15:25:18 »
Yeah...
You do target certain people .
Now then , seeing as how MAINSTREAM science allows that the universe was much denser and slower in the deep past , the logical extension of that is the opposite . In other words , the trend I described . As far as the "Vector of time" goes , that springs directly from Relativity , which is mainstream enough for me .
Another thing here ; this is a discussion forum , not a test by some hostile professor . In otherwords , it is here for discussion and debate . It is NOT Encyclopedia Brittanica , or a doctoral thesis , it is a discussion , that's all . Time to stop sabotaging other posters , and let them enjoy their conversations !
P.M.  .🤮
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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #5 on: 19/05/2020 18:45:39 »
I see !
Worked around to the big brag now ! Too bad you're totally wrong on EACH count ! I could actually prove the viability of each proposition , but that's not what you're really about here !
Unbelievable , absolutely unbelievable to have this mess hurled at my face !
I'm having a hard time believing you're allowing this petty behavior , Chris !
P.M.

*Matter-o'-fact , I WILL prove each point , with credible scientific sources !
First-up ; Arrow of Time .
Ref : www.exactlywhatistime.com/physics-of-time/relativistic-time/   
Second-up ; G-R Gravity .
Ref : www.scienceabc.com/nature/universe/time-dilation-why-does-gravity-slow-down-the-flow-of-time.html   
Third-up ; Micro-G slowing .
futurism.com/thanks-to-time-dilation-earths-core-is-2-5-years-younger-than-its-surface . 
Fourth-up ; The Big-Rip .
Ref : en.m.wikipedia.org/
wiki/Big_Rip     
Fifth-up ; Entropic-Gravity .
Ref : en.m.wikipedia.org/
wiki/Entropic_gravity   
*Ref.: quora.com/Does-the-expansion-of-space-time-produce-or-require-energy/   .Viktor Toth
**Bone-us : quora.com/Does-gravity-have-mass/    .Viktor Toth
***Also : quora.com/If-space-is-expanding-are-more-units-of-space-being-made-or-are-they-getting-bigger/    .Jonathan Devor

*Alright , as the objective can see , my logic-chain is solidly contiguous , and  based on past observation and credible theory .

« Last Edit: 15/01/2021 12:18:44 by Professor Mega-Mind »
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #6 on: 19/05/2020 20:47:23 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 19/05/2020 18:45:39
I see !
Worked around to the big brag now ! Too bad you're totally wrong on EACH count ! I could actually prove the viability of each proposition , but that's not what you're really about here !
Unbelievable , absolutely unbelievable to have this mess hurled at my face !
I'm having a hard time believing you're allowing this petty behavior , Chris !
P.M.

*Matter-o'-fact , I WILL prove each point , with credible scientific sources !
First-up ; Arrow of Time .
Ref : www.exactlywhatistime.com/physics-of-time/relativistic-time/
Second-up ; G-R Gravity .
Ref : www.scienceabc.com/nature/universe/time-dilation-why-does-gravity-slow-down-the-flow-of-time.html


Okay, so where in your links does it state that time is eventually going to be moving infinitely quickly?
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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #7 on: 19/05/2020 21:47:37 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 19/05/2020 15:25:18

Now then , seeing as how MAINSTREAM science allows that the universe was much denser and slower in the deep past , the logical extension of that is the opposite .
I think thats a matter of your piont of view, really its all relative.
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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #8 on: 19/05/2020 22:11:36 »
...I'm lovin' it !
You are , of course , right . The poor unfrozen souls waking up in the distant future , would perceive time as passing in a normal manner . But... if we could somehow observe that future universe from here , it would appear to move exponentially faster , until it rapidly disintegrated . It's just extrapolating the G-R effects we observe here and now , far into the future .

*Sounds like that sci-fi short ; "...At the End" !
P.M.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #9 on: 19/05/2020 22:16:15 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 19/05/2020 22:11:36
But... if we could somehow observe that future universe from here , it would appear to move exponentially faster , until it rapidly disintegrated . It's just extrapolating the G-R effects we observe here and now , far into the future .

And you base that conclusion on what? Why would time in the future move significantly faster than time already moves in, say, present-day intergalactic space?
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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #10 on: 19/05/2020 22:25:51 »
Because in the early universe , when the mass/energy density throughout space was far higher , time passed much slower. The universe has since thinned,and as a consequence time in it is passing more quickly than when it was very dense . That trend leads very directly to an exponentially quickening passage of time , culminating in a "crisis-moment" , far in the future .

*Simple logic-chain , however , I will back it up with reference to a live and accessible physicist , with similar views .
Ref : Jim Whitescarver
www.quora.com/Is-a-curve-in-space-time-a-difference-in-density-of-space-time?  3/4/16 .
*Apparently, Faraday , Maxwell, Einstein,Green , and he , all hold/held a similar view of the cosmic "ether" . The same one I propound ! 
P.M. 
« Last Edit: 13/09/2020 01:04:38 by Professor Mega-Mind »
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #11 on: 19/05/2020 22:33:10 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 19/05/2020 22:25:51
Because in the early universe , when the mass/energy density throughout space was far higher , time passed much slower. The universe has since thinned,and as a consequence time in it is passing more quickly than when it was very dense . That trend leads very directly to an exponentially quickening passage of time , culminating in a "crisis-moment" , far in the future .

*Simple logic-chain .
P.

That's not how that works. The rate of time does not tend towards infinity as the gravitational potential tends towards zero. That is specifically why I used intergalactic space as an example. The gravitational potential is practically zero out there. Yet time does not move much faster there than it does here on Earth. Gravitational time dilation is always a measure between two reference frames. The gravitational time dilation at Earth's surface causes about 0.0219 fewer seconds per year to pass relative to a reference frame where no gravitational field or acceleration is present.
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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #12 on: 19/05/2020 23:33:23 »
That's a quantitative factor , but it cannot account for the "virtual-mass" of space-time . This of course , because we don't really know exactly what space is . Same with matter , same with energy . We only know these on a relatively shallow level . When we truly master them , we will be able to create artificial forms of them .

*For a comprehensive synopsis of leading theories on the composition of space-time :
Ref : www.quora.com/What-is-empty-space-made-of/   
NSF : Why is it called dark-matter instead of dark-gravity ?
www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=67557.new;topicseen#new   
P.M.
》For in-depth debate on these subjects , read NSF thread : If there was one Big Bang event, why not multiple big bangs?
 Reply#417 , on page 21 .
www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=70348.new;topicseen#new
« Last Edit: 15/01/2021 12:00:27 by Professor Mega-Mind »
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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #13 on: 20/05/2020 00:11:48 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 19/05/2020 23:33:23
That's a quantitative factor , but it cannot account for the "virtual-mass" of space-time . This of course , because we don't really know exactly what space is . Same with matter , same with energy . We only know these on a relatively shallow level . When we truly master them , we will be able to create artificial forms of them .
P.

And none of that has any effect on what I said. What I said has been supported by experiment. Einstein's equations have survived every test they have been subjected to. Einstein's equations do not predict that time moves infinitely quickly when the local gravitational field is zero.
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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #14 on: 20/05/2020 02:47:43 »
That is in "normal" space , not what I was describing .
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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #15 on: 20/05/2020 05:47:12 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 20/05/2020 02:47:43
That is in "normal" space , not what I was describing .

Then what were you talking about?
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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #16 on: 20/05/2020 11:31:02 »
Thinned space , profoundly altered by Inflation .
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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #17 on: 20/05/2020 15:22:13 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 20/05/2020 11:31:02
Thinned space

And what is "thinned space"?
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Offline Professor Mega-Mind (OP)

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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #18 on: 20/05/2020 18:51:08 »
Come-come...!  We both speak the King's english here !
It's like when your hair "thins" out , only Inflation stretches out the field-matrix/substrate of space .  Not that we know exactly what space is , or how to manipulate it very much . 
*Recently , astro-physicists have determined that the Fine-Structure Constant  is slowly increasing , in a manner consistent with the putative time-contraction mentioned earlier .
P.M.

*Ref : en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Fine-structure_constant   
>Paragraph#6 : Is the Fine structure Constant  actually constant ?
*Ref.2 : "New distance meas.s bolster challenge to basic model of universe ."
>www.nanowerk.com/news2/space/newsid=55372.php?
« Last Edit: 12/06/2020 20:19:58 by Professor Mega-Mind »
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Re: How does the expansion of space work?
« Reply #19 on: 20/05/2020 20:14:55 »
Quote from: Professor Mega-Mind on 20/05/2020 18:51:08
Come-come...!  We both speak the King's english !
It's like when your hair "thins" out , only Inflation stretches out the field-matrix/substrate of space .  Not that we know exactly what space is , or how to manipulate it very much . 

If you are implying that space becomes different as it is stretched, then that is something that belongs in "New Theories". Stretched space in contemporary physics is the same as "more space". Its properties don't change. For this reason (and due to other things that have been said in this thread), I'm splitting this into another topic.
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