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  1. Naked Science Forum
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  4. The Weak Force does not Exist
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The Weak Force does not Exist

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: The Weak Force does not Exist
« Reply #20 on: 08/08/2020 17:34:57 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 08/08/2020 16:29:47
Quote from: Bored chemist on 08/08/2020 14:48:41
Then it wouldn't be a proton any more.

It would still be a proton because the proton has got other properties that do not go into the Higgs. The Higgs is made of some of the proton parts.
So the Higgs Boson- mass  ‎125.18 ± 0.16 GeV/c2
Is made from parts of the Proton- mass    0.93828 GeV/c2

Yes, that makes perfect sense because 0.9 is much bigger than 125.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: The Weak Force does not Exist
« Reply #21 on: 09/08/2020 12:34:08 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 08/08/2020 17:13:51
A proton cannot contain parts of a Higgs in one frame and not in another.

Space is at rest relative to the proton. Relativistic mass makes more real little circles (see figure above) as far as space is concerned. The rest frame of the proton is irrelevant for space.

Quote from: Kryptid on 08/08/2020 17:13:51
Not to mention that the Higgs is a fundamental particle. It isn't, to the best of our knowledge, made of anything simpler than itself.

In my model the Higgs is made of a Riemann sphere with left out events of spacetime - I can conceive of what ordinary physics cannot.

Quote from: Kryptid on 08/08/2020 17:13:51
And what about decay of the muon

The muon also decays by the strong force as follows: a muon neutrino-anti-neutrino pair starts to exist close to the muon, the muon antineutrino binds with the muon forming a anti-up-down, which decays to a electron and electron antineutrino and the muon neutrino goes free too.


Quote from: Bored chemist on 08/08/2020 17:34:57
Yes, that makes perfect sense because 0.9 is much bigger than 125.

Don't be sarcastic. The proton's relativistic mass is > 125 GeV/c2.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: The Weak Force does not Exist
« Reply #22 on: 09/08/2020 12:48:26 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 08/08/2020 17:13:51
Then the Z boson was actually detected in 1983. That's strong evidence that the weak nuclear force exists.

They detected a photon with mass.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: The Weak Force does not Exist
« Reply #23 on: 09/08/2020 13:04:06 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 09/08/2020 12:34:08
Don't be sarcastic. The proton's relativistic mass is > 125 GeV/c2.
Not, as has been pointed out, from the point of view of another proton travelling alongside in the accelerator.
From that perspective, the proton just looks like a proton.
Quote from: talanum1 on 09/08/2020 12:34:08
I can conceive of what ordinary physics cannot.
I can conceive of unicorns.
The difference between us is that I have more sense than to think they are real.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: The Weak Force does not Exist
« Reply #24 on: 09/08/2020 15:07:32 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 09/08/2020 12:34:08
Space is at rest relative to the proton. Relativistic mass makes more real little circles (see figure above) as far as space is concerned. The rest frame of the proton is irrelevant for space.

Sounds like you are contradicting relativity.

Quote from: talanum1 on 09/08/2020 12:34:08
In my model the Higgs is made of a Riemann sphere with left out events of spacetime - I can conceive of what ordinary physics cannot.

Now all you need to do is demonstrate that with experimental evidence.

Quote from: talanum1 on 09/08/2020 12:34:08
The muon also decays by the strong force

It doesn't even interact with the strong nuclear force, so that doesn't work.

Quote from: talanum1 on 09/08/2020 12:48:26
They detected a photon with mass.

No, they didn't. The photon is stable, whereas the Z boson is not. The photon is associated with the electromagnetic interaction, whereas the Z boson is not (it is associated with neutrino interactions, which have no charge).
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: The Weak Force does not Exist
« Reply #25 on: 10/08/2020 12:19:46 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 09/08/2020 15:07:32
Sounds like you are contradicting relativity.

Seems like you have a point there.

Quote from: Kryptid on 09/08/2020 15:07:32
It doesn't even interact with the strong nuclear force, so that doesn't work.

The mu-minus binds with a muon antineutrino to form a pi-minus that does feel the strong force.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: The Weak Force does not Exist
« Reply #26 on: 10/08/2020 15:09:42 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 10/08/2020 12:19:46
mu-minus binds with a muon antineutrino
How?
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: The Weak Force does not Exist
« Reply #27 on: 10/08/2020 20:40:40 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 10/08/2020 12:19:46
The mu-minus binds with a muon antineutrino to form a pi-minus that does feel the strong force.

1) The negative pion is composed of a quark and antiquark, not a muon and antineutrino.
2) There is no known force that can bind a muon to an antineutrino. Electromagnetism won't work because the antineutrino is neutral. The strong force won't work because neither particle feels the strong force. Gravity won't work because it's far too weak on that scale. The weak force won't work because it doesn't form bound states (and you can't invoke it anyway because you are denying its existence).
3) You are still ignoring the fact that the muon, by itself, decays. I'm not talking about a pion. The muon does not interact with the strong force and thus you cannot invoke it as a mechanism for its decay.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: The Weak Force does not Exist
« Reply #28 on: 15/08/2020 17:37:02 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 10/08/2020 20:40:40
Gravity won't work because it's far too weak on that scale.

They can bind by Gravity if the antineutrino is very precisely headed for the muon. Gravity becomes large for small distances. Since the antineutrino is light only a very tiny force is required to accelerate it to the muon.

A force of 10^(-19) N is all that is required. This is much more than 10^(-33) N by which the gravitic force is smaller than the strong force.
« Last Edit: 15/08/2020 17:42:29 by talanum1 »
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: The Weak Force does not Exist
« Reply #29 on: 15/08/2020 17:45:27 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 15/08/2020 17:37:02
They can bind by Gravity if the antineutrino is very precisely headed for the muon. Gravity becomes large for small distances. Since the antineutrino is light only a very tiny force is required to accelerate it to the muon.

That's not how that works on the quantum level. Niels Bohr worked out the average radius (Bohr radius) of the hydrogen atom in part by taking into account the strength of the attractive force between the proton and electron. What was discovered was that, the stronger the attractive force, the smaller the average distance between the electron and proton. This is confirmed when looking at periodic trends of the chemical elements where the 1s orbital (the orbital where the two innermost electrons are) become smaller and smaller as the atomic number (and therefore nuclear electric charge) increases.

So the inverse is also true: the weaker the attractive force between two particles, the larger the bound state is. Gravity is on the order of 1039 times weaker than the electromagnetic force, so a muon-antineutrino bound state would be expected to be many orders of magnitude larger than a hydrogen atom. Such is not the case for a pion. So we know that it is not held together by gravity.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: The Weak Force does not Exist
« Reply #30 on: 15/08/2020 17:59:38 »
The muon and antineutrino acquire color charge just before they bind by the strong force into a pion. They can have the opposite color charge so conservation of color is not violated.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: The Weak Force does not Exist
« Reply #31 on: 15/08/2020 20:36:41 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 15/08/2020 17:59:38
The muon and antineutrino acquire color charge just before they bind by the strong force into a pion.

Neither the muon nor the antineutrino interact via the color force.
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