[Bored chemist]

And as China has now managed to create a traditional inactivated virus vaccine, we should stop all the experimental mRNA DNA and viral vector programs in my opinion and either buy from China or invite China to share the technology.

Why?
Why do you want the virus to spread to everyone?
Why do you want about 2% of the population dead?

Are you really so stupid that you can not follow this calculation?

Not really.
Their vaccine is about 50% effective.
That's good, but not good enough.
The R for the virus, if you take no control measures is about 3.
If the vaccine is 50% effective then, simplistically, you drop R to 1.5.
That's till above 1 so you still have an epidemic.

Or are you a troll, making a stupid, obviously false argument, just to waste everyone's time?

[Bored chemist]

Fauci admitted he lied about the effectiveness of Masks

No, he did not.
It's just that, as usual, you don't understand anything beyond a simplistic interpretation.

FOOL ME ONCE SHAME ON YOU.

You can't even quote proverbs properly.

We are already seeing serious side effects from these experimental treatments.

Have you seen the effect of the virus?
Nobody is claiming that the vaccines are perfect; just that they are better than the virus.

[alancalverd]

Well it was clear in January covid was airborne

Airborne, transmitted by sexual contact, or the Evil Eye, makes no difference, nor does whatever and whenever WHO said anything. It was plain from November 2019 that the vector was human, so quarantine was an effective means of suppression and still remains the best because it prevents all variants from spreading beyond their first victim.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

Well it was clear in January covid was airborne

Airborne, transmitted by sexual contact, or the Evil Eye, makes no difference, nor does whatever and whenever WHO said anything. It was plain from November 2019 that the vector was human, so quarantine was an effective means of suppression and still remains the best because it prevents all variants from spreading beyond their first victim.

This is now the secound woman I have seen with these side effects,  apparently there are many more...

I again urge the ending of these mRNA vaccines... this is disgraceful

[Bored chemist]

I again urge the ending of these mRNA vaccines... this is disgraceful

Yes it is.
Urging that we stop using a vaccine without proposing an alternative, and on the basis of an anecdote is disgraceful.
It would lead to thousands of deaths.
Why are you doing it?

[Jolly2 (OP)]

I again urge the ending of these mRNA vaccines... this is disgraceful

Yes it is.
Urging that we stop using a vaccine without proposing an alternative, and on the basis of an anecdote is disgraceful.
It would lead to thousands of deaths.
Why are you doing it?

You really a total inhuman idiot.

If you had actually bothered to notice I have been recommending the Chinese vaccine repeatedly.

Go a troll somewhere else. And maybe go and explain to all the people now suffering mega side effects or that are now dead In Norway how they are better off after taking this experiment treatment.

We are already seeing serious side effects from these experimental treatments.

Have you seen the effect of the virus?
Nobody is claiming that the vaccines are perfect; just that they are better than the virus.

You're disgraceful

[Bored chemist]

If you had actually bothered to notice I have been recommending the Chinese vaccine repeatedly.

I noticed.

And as China has now managed to create a traditional inactivated virus vaccine, we should stop all the experimental mRNA DNA and viral vector programs in my opinion and either buy from China or invite China to share the technology.

Why?
Why do you want the virus to spread to everyone?
Why do you want about 2% of the population dead?

Are you really so stupid that you can not follow this calculation?

Not really.
Their vaccine is about 50% effective.
That's good, but not good enough.
The R for the virus, if you take no control measures is about 3.
If the vaccine is 50% effective then, simplistically, you drop R to 1.5.
That's till above 1 so you still have an epidemic.

Or are you a troll, making a stupid, obviously false argument, just to waste everyone's time?

[Bored chemist]

maybe go and explain to all the people now suffering mega side effects or that are now dead

Only a troll or an idiot would suggest that I explained something to dead people.
Which are you: Idiot or troll?

[Jolly2 (OP)]

maybe go and explain to all the people now suffering mega side effects or that are now dead

Only a troll or an idiot would suggest that I explained something to dead people.
Which are you: Idiot or troll?

They all have families who are now in mourning.  Triple down why dont you. One day you'll have to look in the mirror

[Bored chemist]

They all have families who are now in mourning.  Triple down why dont you. One day you'll have to look in the mirror

You forgot to answer the questions.
Why did you think I should try to contact the dead people (or, for that matter, their families)?
And why do you keep advocating a vaccine that isn't good enough?

Just saying something rude about me isn't good enough- you actually have to add something to the discussion.
Why do you want so many more people to die?

[Kryptid]

Stop it with the personal attacks, both of you.

Unfortunately associations like American Frontline Doctors, Doctors for Truth. Are all being black listed and scrubbed from the internet.

There's a good reason for that: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/90536

Facebook and Twitter medical experts they are along with the main stream media are all in cooperation to remove any voices that critic the government narrative.

You can stop with the conspiracy claims any time now...

This is now the secound woman I have seen with these side effects,  apparently there are many more...

Many millions of people have been vaccinated worldwide. What proportion of those people have had such profound negative reactions? Are those reactions indefinite, or do they eventually get better?

I again urge the ending of these mRNA vaccines... this is disgraceful

If you are going to make a case for this, then you need to show us that the vaccines are more dangerous than contracting COVID. Do you have those numbers?

They all have families who are now in mourning.

So do those who died of COVID, and there are over 2 million of them. By comparison, how many people have the vaccines killed?

[evan_au]

the "luciferase vaccine."

This makes it sound like the vaccine is the devil incarnate.

In fact, luciferase (the enzyme that lets fireflies glow) is used as a diagnostic tool to do laboratory tests of antibody levels in patients, and to test the effectiveness of lipid nanoparticles at entering cells.
- It does not mean that if you get a mRNA vaccine, your eyes will start glowing!

See, for example: https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/science-research-biologics/luciferase-immunoprecipitation-system-lips-assay-rapid-simple-and-sensitive-test-detect-antibody

SARS cov2 proteins attack ace 2 but what if the viral package attacks a different receptor?

Vaccines which express the SARS-COV2 spike protein on their surface (eg the Sinovac inactivated SARS-COV2, or the Astra-Zeneca non-replicating chimpanzee virus) do seek out cells with the ACE-2 receptor.
- Depending on the vaccine design, it may or may not actually infect the cell it reaches.
- But the immune system is alerted to the presence of a "foreign" protein (the spike protein) and generates an immune response over the subsequent days and weeks.

In contrast, the mRNA vaccines are encased in lipid nanoparticles, which do not display any proteins on the surface.
- They do not need to dock with a receptor on the cell surface to get into a human cell
- The lipid sphere merges with the lipid coat of human cells, and releases the mRNA inside the cell.
- The cell follows the mRNA instructions to manufacture the SARS-COV2 spike protein, which arranges itself on the surface of the human cell.
- Again, the immune system is alerted to the presence of a "foreign" protein (the spike protein) and generates an immune response over the subsequent days and weeks.

Since all of the current vaccines are injected into an arm muscle, it is most likely that the mRNA vaccine will enter a muscle cell.

go and explain to all the people now suffering mega side effects or that are now dead In Norway how they are better off after taking this experiment treatment.

I heard of an interview with a Norwegian public health official.
- He said that they were not worried about these events, and would not be stopping rollout of the mRNA vaccines
- They have not confirmed that the deaths were due to the vaccine, since these were very frail elderly people with terminal conditions, and months to live.
- He said that he had far more interest from the international press than Norwegian press

A possible outcome may be that the recommendations are changed to not vaccinate people who are about to die
- Or possibly, to give them a vaccine that provokes a lesser immune response (like the Astra-Zeneca one).

The mRNA vaccines are frequently followed by flu-like symptoms for a day or so
- This is a sign that your body is generating Interferons. This grabs the attention of the immune system.
- The problem with the SARS-COV2 virus is that it suppresses the interferon defense, so most people feel ok- until they have a really severe condition that can't be ignored (like low blood oxygen).

Sadly money rules over science today

Unless you want all science to be done solely by wealthy gentlemen with nothing better to do with their time, you need money to do science.

Galileo needed to find wealthy patrons who could support his research program.
- Today we have bodies like the US NSF that funds science, and takes the advice of scientists in deciding which applications to fund.

In extreme cases like WW2, the British government funded development of Colossus to break German cyphers. This directly led to the development of commercial computers after WW2.

And in extreme cases like a COVID-19 pandemic, huge grants were given by national governments to vaccine makers in their own countries (US, China, Russia, UK, among others) to accelerate research and production of vaccines in their country.
- Other countries provided market certainty by issuing advance orders for these vaccines (if they passed safety & efficacy trials).

So, money has always directed science (and constrained science).
- Let's hope the available money is used wisely
- And not pushed around by politics (eg Donald Trump wanted to cancel all NASA's Earth-observation satellites, because they proved he was lying about climate change; Brazil's science minister was fired for releasing data on deforestation in the Amazon)
- And let's hope that science funding is not cancelled for the next decade, as governments attempt to pay back the money they spent on COVID vaccines and economic stimulus packages...

multiple sclerosis, Lou Gehrig’s disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer …
....That's 11 months for (trials) that should be 9 years long.

I agree - if we were developing vaccines and running clinical trials and analyzing the data with the technology of 20 years ago, that is how long it would take (with ample funding).

But with a trial that long, there would be far more cases of death from all causes (including these slow, degenerative diseases).
- That is why the power of the placebo-controlled trial is vital, so you can compare the results with and without the vaccine.
- If the adverse events are similar in both arms of the trial, then you can say with confidence that the adverse effects were not the result of the vaccine.
- Untrained and unqualified Presidents espousing the virtues of hydroxychloroquine and bleach cocktails found lots of supporters amongst "America's Frontline Doctors" - but the placebo controlled trial closed the question. (The UV-activated bleach didn't make it to first base with the medical ethics committee).

But we know that with the vaccines that have passed Phase III placebo-controlled trials, the adverse effects are far less than the adverse effects of SASRS-COV2.

[alancalverd]

Russia Today grumbling about Pfizer side-effects, suggests that Sputnik is ineffective, so they want to rubbish the competition. Pity, because I'm told that Sputnik is relatively cheap and robust.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

Russia Today grumbling about Pfizer side-effects, suggests that Sputnik is ineffective, so they want to rubbish the competition. Pity, because I'm told that Sputnik is relatively cheap and robust.

That's a simplistic take in the situation, like suggesting the BBC rubbished a treatment to benefit British ones. No impossible but unlikely in the Sputnik 5 vaccine is another mRNA vaccine the story does more damage then good  in  that sense.

After 4 years of Russia gate nonsense it ere muh Russia.

California has now stopped the vaccine program for maderna due to severe allergic reactions.
https://summit.news/2021/01/19/california-issues-alarm-over-unusually-high-number-of-allergic-reactions-to-moderna-vaccine/


We should congratulate them on seeing sense.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

Stop it with the personal attacks, both of you.

Thankyou ktyptid I have no interest in engaging with him.

Unfortunately associations like American Frontline Doctors, Doctors for Truth. Are all being black listed and scrubbed from the internet.

There's a good reason for that: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/90536

The association is complied of doctors all working and treating patients. They are expressing their expertise and experience relative to actually treating people.
The article you shared is misinformation designed to poison the well. Ever since Trump suggested using HCQ the media have done nothing but rubbish the treatment even tho the initial paper used to justify the claim has been retracted by the lancet as inaccurate.

The powers that be clearly do not want an effective treatment that interferes with their vaccination program.

Facebook and Twitter medical experts they are along with the main stream media are all in cooperation to remove any voices that critic the government narrative.

You can stop with the conspiracy claims any time now...

Literally a fact any doctor who has treated patients and had success with HCQ as just one example on publically suggesting it will be scrubbed from all official sites banned on Twitter and Facebook. Again since when are Facebook and Twitter medical expert's?

This is now the secound woman I have seen with these side effects,  apparently there are many more...

Many millions of people have been vaccinated worldwide. What proportion of those people have had such profound negative reactions? Are those reactions indefinite, or do they eventually get better?

Good questions phase 1 testing normally takes 2 years for these new vaccines they had 3 months.  And the combined time for phases 2 and 3 is around 7 years all done in 8 months for the new vaccines there has not been enough study, as I have been complaining about for days now.

I again urge the ending of these mRNA vaccines... this is disgraceful

If you are going to make a case for this, then you need to show us that the vaccines are more dangerous than contracting COVID. Do you have those numbers?

If you have seen these side effects covid is not worse, I had covid last year,  it's a bad case of flu, with chest pains and testicle pains.  There is no comparison,  if you are under the age of 70 chances of dying are 0.03%

They all have families who are now in mourning.

So do those who died of COVID, and there are over 2 million of them. By comparison, how many people have the vaccines killed?

We have barely started. Not to mention the risk of death as has been shown in animal testing once they come into contact with the wild virus

[Jolly2 (OP)]

the "luciferase vaccine."

This makes it sound like the vaccine is the devil incarnate.

In fact, luciferase (the enzyme that lets fireflies glow) is used as a diagnostic tool to do laboratory tests of antibody levels in patients, and to test the effectiveness of lipid nanoparticles at entering cells.
- It does not mean that if you get a mRNA vaccine, your eyes will start glowing!

See, for example: https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/science-research-biologics/luciferase-immunoprecipitation-system-lips-assay-rapid-simple-and-sensitive-test-detect-antibody

SARS cov2 proteins attack ace 2 but what if the viral package attacks a different receptor?

Vaccines which express the SARS-COV2 spike protein on their surface (eg the Sinovac inactivated SARS-COV2, or the Astra-Zeneca non-replicating chimpanzee virus) do seek out cells with the ACE-2 receptor.
- Depending on the vaccine design, it may or may not actually infect the cell it reaches.
- But the immune system is alerted to the presence of a "foreign" protein (the spike protein) and generates an immune response over the subsequent days and weeks.

In contrast, the mRNA vaccines are encased in lipid nanoparticles, which do not display any proteins on the surface.
- They do not need to dock with a receptor on the cell surface to get into a human cell
- The lipid sphere merges with the lipid coat of human cells, and releases the mRNA inside the cell.
- The cell follows the mRNA instructions to manufacture the SARS-COV2 spike protein, which arranges itself on the surface of the human cell.
- Again, the immune system is alerted to the presence of a "foreign" protein (the spike protein) and generates an immune response over the subsequent days and weeks.

Since all of the current vaccines are injected into an arm muscle, it is most likely that the mRNA vaccine will enter a muscle cell.

Yet if it hits the blood stream potentially it could hit any cell.  Still you didnt really answer my question. The nanoparticles do allow the possibility of all cells to be effected.

go and explain to all the people now suffering mega side effects or that are now dead In Norway how they are better off after taking this experiment treatment.

I heard of an interview with a Norwegian public health official.
- He said that they were not worried about these events, and would not be stopping rollout of the mRNA vaccines
- They have not confirmed that the deaths were due to the vaccine, since these were very frail elderly people with terminal conditions, and months to live.
- He said that he had far more interest from the international press than Norwegian press

A possible outcome may be that the recommendations are changed to not vaccinate people who are about to die
- Or possibly, to give them a vaccine that provokes a lesser immune response (like the Astra-Zeneca one).

The mRNA vaccines are frequently followed by flu-like symptoms for a day or so
- This is a sign that your body is generating Interferons. This grabs the attention of the immune system.
- The problem with the SARS-COV2 virus is that it suppresses the interferon defense, so most people feel ok- until they have a really severe condition that can't be ignored (like low blood oxygen).

Sadly money rules over science today

Unless you want all science to be done solely by wealthy gentlemen with nothing better to do with their time, you need money to do science.

That disingenuous,  the issue is science publically funded and therefore not driven by the profit motives we see from corporations,  sadly corporations have taken over, this is more about returning science to a publicly funded and publically responsible undertaking. We need big business out of scientific research they are literally dominating, there telos doesnt belong in science, science effectively is now hostage to plutocracy or even clepotocracy.

Galileo needed to find wealthy patrons who could support his research program.
- Today we have bodies like the US NSF that funds science, and takes the advice of scientists in deciding which applications to fund.

In extreme cases like WW2, the British government funded development of Colossus to break German cyphers. This directly led to the development of commercial computers after WW2.

And in extreme cases like a COVID-19 pandemic, huge grants were given by national governments to vaccine makers in their own countries (US, China, Russia, UK, among others) to accelerate research and production of vaccines in their country.
- Other countries provided market certainty by issuing advance orders for these vaccines (if they passed safety & efficacy trials).

So, money has always directed science (and constrained science).
- Let's hope the available money is used wisely
- And not pushed around by politics (eg Donald Trump wanted to cancel all NASA's Earth-observation satellites, because they proved he was lying about climate change;

He was expressing his opinion that's not lying. Jeremy Corbyns Brother is repeatedly denouncing climate change as a corporate agenda.

Brazil's science minister was fired for releasing data on deforestation in the Amazon)

There current president leaves a lot to be desired.

let's hope that science funding is not cancelled for the next decade, as governments attempt to pay back the money they spent on COVID vaccines and economic stimulus packages...

multiple sclerosis, Lou Gehrig’s disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer …
....That's 11 months for (trials) that should be 9 years long.

I agree - if we were developing vaccines and running clinical trials and analyzing the data with the technology of 20 years ago, that is how long it would take (with ample funding).

The curent technology is still experimental, they have literally only just been authorized,  and in a way that is utterly rushed. Sorry your suggests snacks of arrogant assumption.

But with a trial that long, there would be far more cases of death from all causes (including these slow, degenerative diseases).
- That is why the power of the placebo-controlled trial is vital, so you can compare the results with and without the vaccine.
- If the adverse events are similar in both arms of the trial, then you can say with confidence that the adverse effects were not the result of the vaccine.
- Untrained and unqualified Presidents espousing the virtues of hydroxychloroquine and bleach cocktails found lots of supporters amongst "America's Frontline Doctors"

That's also disingenuous,
With HCQ Trump was quoting a French doctor, who had treated patients with it and found success,  science:- experiment and good results. Frontline American doctors people in the frontline doing the work have the same experience. That the media feel the need to rubbish anything Trump suggests speaks more of there TDS.

With regards to the bleach, I think Trunp was simply stating the virus is easily killed I dont believe he ever suggested drinking it. It's as always Trump speak misunderstood and uncharitably presented, still helped sell papers.

- but the placebo controlled trial closed the question. (The UV-activated bleach didn't make it to first base with the medical ethics committee).

But we know that with the vaccines that have passed Phase III placebo-controlled trials, the adverse effects are far less than the adverse effects of SASRS-COV2.

No you don't the trails are too short.

I honestly have to speculate how you can compare side effects to virus? Considering we really dont understand either fully

Women shared her vaccine side effects from the maderna vaccine on Facebook.
https://gab.com/Yeholiverjolly/posts/105583821437848521

[Bored chemist]

California has now stopped the vaccine program for maderna due to severe allergic reactions.

Are they still using the other vaccines?

The article you shared is misinformation designed to poison the well. Ever since Trump suggested using HCQ the media have done nothing but rubbish the treatment

That's because it doesn't work.

The powers that be do not want am effective treatment that interferes with the vaccination program.

Why?
Why do you imagine they want to waste their money on a vaccination program?
PS, real answer only, not paranoid conspiracies.

If you have seen these side effects covid is not worse,

It is for those who it kills- roughly 2 million of them.

I had covid last year, 

How do you know?

He was expressing his opinion that's not lying. Jeremy Corbyns Brother is repeatedly denouncing climate change as a corporate agenda.

One is a liar the other is a nutter.
So what?

I dont believe he ever suggested drinking it.

Watch the video a few times. He actually talked about injecting bleach and disinfectant.
Then again. He also lied about it just magically going away.

Why don't you recognise that Trump is the swamp?

[alancalverd]

Small quantities of hydroxychloroquine and sodium hypochlorite kill viruses. True.

Large quantities kill idiots. Also true.

Problem is that you need to ingest or inject a large quantity in order to kill a small amount of virus hidden inside an idiot.

[Bored chemist]

It is a very well known, very safe and widely used anti viral medication.

(It sometimes kills, even at antimalarial  doses.)
But it's a very bad antiviral.
So you would need to use lots of it.
And, at that level, it kills the patient.
Advocating that is nonsense.
Why are you doing it?

I still want you to explain why you want so many people to die.
Why do you advocate a vaccine that simply isn't good enough?

[Bored chemist]

according to many doctors around the world been shown in combination with vitamin C and zinc to have profound impact on treating people with covid 19.

But not according to any proper trial.

I still want you to explain why you want so many people to die.
Why do you advocate a vaccine that simply isn't good enough?