[Jolly2 (OP)]

Biden serves the Corporate swamp

You spelled "Trump" incorrectly.
Just about the only campaign promise that Trump kept was to reduce taxes on the swamp.
Obviously, I'm not so naïve that I think Biden is independent of corporate greed, but Trump is a corporation.

Trump was the last best hope of America.

Now see what happens with Biden.

In a sense, he was but failed, he was too devoted to flawed economic ideas, he honestly believed reducing taxes on corporations would cause them to employ more, they generally just put the money direct to dividend. Steve bannon was pushing Trump for a 45% tax on the wealthiest but Trump ignored him. A huge failure and lost opportunity,  doesnt matter now the oligarchy are firmly back in power and will rob everyone as blind as they can.

Bidens 34 million new legal workers are going to devastate wages, still all the more saving for the oligarchy, LOaaDS A Money!!

[alancalverd]

they stole the election

Who? How? Evidence?

[Bored chemist]

he honestly believed reducing taxes on corporations would cause them to employ more, they generally just put the money direct to dividend.

Just like the Trump corporation always did.
So it's hard to see how he "honestly believed " That they would do anything different.

Trump is the swamp.

34 million new legal workers

You seem to have used a number that's roughly three times the actual number of illegally resident people in the US.
Did you get it from a source that always tells lies, or was this a "special"?

Steve bannon was pushing Trump for a 45% tax on the wealthiest but Trump ignored him. A huge failure and lost opportunity,  doesnt matter now the oligarchy are firmly back in power

The oligarchs were always in power; that's why their puppet- Trump- ignored Banner's push.

I can't understand why you keep refusing to see this.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

he honestly believed reducing taxes on corporations would cause them to employ more, they generally just put the money direct to dividend.

Just like the Trump corporation always did.
So it's hard to see how he "honestly believed " That they would do anything different.

Trump is the swamp.

Disagree,  Trumps attempts at building the wall, and stopping immigration, along with his trade war with China and seeking to renegotiate NAFTA and bringing back factories from Mexico and China was about rebuilding the American infrastructure Neoliberalism has destroyed.  Wages actually started rising in America before covid hit, as they will when there are not millions of immigrants entering the work force.

The swamp wants as much immigration as possible to supress wages and increase profits.

34 million new legal workers

You seem to have used a number that's roughly three times the actual number of illegally resident people in the US.
Did you get it from a source that always tells lies, or was this a "special"?

Sorry my number was conservative, claim was made by Quote:
NumbersUSA President Rosemary Jenks went on Steve Bannon’s “War Room” on Tuesday to explain how under the bill, called the U.S. Citizenship Act, 37 million illegals would receive green cards and citizenship over 10 years.

So it was 37 million I saw a different report that suggested 34.

Steve bannon was pushing Trump for a 45% tax on the wealthiest but Trump ignored him. A huge failure and lost opportunity,  doesnt matter now the oligarchy are firmly back in power

The oligarchs were always in power; that's why their puppet- Trump- ignored Banner's push.

I can't understand why you keep refusing to see this.

Trump was such a good puppet all the oligarchs in America hated him. Along with the CIA, FBI, all the main stream media and both members of the different party establishment. He was such a good swamp thing that the swamp hated him.  He put a more honest face on the swamp, as I said before Trump is a nicer guy then the average swamp thing that runs America,  they just hide in the shadows generally. They hate Trump for making them look bad, but in reality they are far worse people then Trump.

[Bored chemist]

Disagree, 

You disagree that a  guy who ran a US corporation would know how US corporations react to tax changes.

Sorry my number was conservative, claim was made by Quote:
NumbersUSA President Rosemary Jenks went on Steve Bannon’s “War Room” on Tuesday to explain how under the bill, called the U.S. Citizenship Act, 37 million illegals would receive green cards and citizenship over 10 years.

OK, thanks for the clarification.
 And given what it says here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NumbersUSA
We can assume that "NumbersUSA is an anti-immigration advocacy organization that seeks to reduce both legal and illegal immigration to the United States."

So the answer to my question is that you chose a source more or less guaranteed to give you the wrong answer (i.e.it wasn't "a special" on their part).

Why did you do that?

Trump was such a good puppet all the oligarchs in America hated him.

You can tell by how they acted in teh run up to his election.
Fox news, for example- which is about as swampy as they get- kept right on broadcasting his lies about things like the attendance at his inauguration parade.

They did that until it was obvious that he wasn't going to win in 2020.

He put a more honest face on the swamp,

No.
He supported it with tax breaks, having campaigned on a ticket of dismantling it.

as I said before Trump is a nicer guy then the average swamp thing that runs America

You did say that; but you provided no evidence.
But his vindictive behaviour is apparent to everyone.
This is not the behaviour of " a nicer guy".

[Jolly2 (OP)]

Umm

[Bored chemist]

Have you noticed that I post actual evidence?

[Jolly2 (OP)]

Disagree, 

You disagree that a  guy who ran a US corporation would know how US corporations react to tax changes.

I disagreed that Trump is the swamp, no matter how bad you think Trump is, the swamp things that control America are worse.

He failed, completely to change America in the way he said he would, his treatment of Assange was disgusting,  although he did offer Assange a pardon in exchange for the name of Assanges source, Seth Rich, which Assnage refused to give him,  which was a mistake on Assange's part really, Seth Rich had already been compromised and murdered and both the CIA and FBI knew it was him that released the DNC emails to Wikileaks,  they just didn't share the information with Trump because they were leading Russia gate against him. Trump actions on Iran, Syria, and Venezuela were equally horrible and against the America first agenda of non interference in foreign countries.
All those things would have been worse under a Clinton administration of course as would have TTIP which Clinton would have passed and day one and Trump destroyed.

Trump did try to remove Troops, but the Pentagon had been lying to him about the actual situation as a means of preventing him doing so.
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/us-troop-levels-syria-jeffrey-interview/

And with regards to his tax policy, he clearly believes in a low tax system, he sort to increase tax revenues by imposing tariffs on good from China and Europe.  That was his principle economics, he also clearly believed as many neo liberal economists do that low taxes on corporate business increases their investments in the economy,  he ignored Steve Bannon and listened to others. The entire American economy is a bubble,  Trump said it himself before being elected then promptly started declaring how amazing it was after he won, another failure on his part.

Sorry my number was conservative, claim was made by Quote:
NumbersUSA President Rosemary Jenks went on Steve Bannon’s “War Room” on Tuesday to explain how under the bill, called the U.S. Citizenship Act, 37 million illegals would receive green cards and citizenship over 10 years.

OK, thanks for the clarification.
 And given what it says here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NumbersUSA
We can assume that "NumbersUSA is an anti-immigration advocacy organization that seeks to reduce both legal and illegal immigration to the United States."

So the answer to my question is that you chose a source more or less guaranteed to give you the wrong answer (i.e.it wasn't "a special" on their part).

Why did you do that?

No I choose a source that gave a higher number. Because 34 million isnt the high end figure.

Trump was such a good puppet all the oligarchs in America hated him.

You can tell by how they acted in teh run up to his election.
Fox news, for example-

That's the same fox News the swamp is trying to get removed.

which is about as swampy as they get- kept right on broadcasting his lies about things like the attendance at his inauguration parade.

They did that until it was obvious that he wasn't going to win in 2020.

He put a more honest face on the swamp,

No.
He supported it with tax breaks, having campaigned on a ticket of dismantling it.

as I said before Trump is a nicer guy then the average swamp thing that runs America

You did say that; but you provided no evidence.
But his vindictive behaviour is apparent to everyone.
This is not the behaviour of " a nicer guy".

If after ths last 60 years of consecutive American administrations, trying to rig elections in way over 60 countries world wide, conducting Cus in just as many, assinations of leaders like Martin Luther King, the constant wars from Vietnam to Syria, the unending bloodshed and exceptional depravity of the Fascists that run the CIA and FBI, and their literal funding and creation of different terrorist groups active across the world, if after all that you think there is no evidence that the people that Run America are more disgusting then Trump, I dont what to say really.

Nixon mentored Trump, little known fact.

[Bored chemist]

no matter how bad you think Trump is, the swamp things that control America are worse.

You misunderstand.
When I say "Trump is the swamp", I don't mean he is as bad.
I mean they are two aspects of the same entity.

No I choose a source that gave a higher number. Because 34 million isnt the high end figure.

The credible figure is about 11 million. But, if you can find a reckless enough pressure group, I'm sure they will tell you that a tenth of all Americans - including the pensioners and children-  are illegal immigrants and you will believe it.

Nobody else will.

That's the same fox News the swamp is trying to get removed.

In what way, and since when?

[Bored chemist]

If after ths last 60 years of consecutive American administrations, trying to rig elections in way over 60 countries world wide, conducting Cus in just as many, assinations of leaders like Martin Luther King, the constant wars from Vietnam to Syria, the unending bloodshed and exceptional depravity of the Fascists that run the CIA and FBI, and their literal funding and creation of different terrorist groups active across the world, if after all that you think there is no evidence that the people that Run America are more disgusting then Trump, I dont what to say really.

They are indeed awful.
Why do you keep missing the point that Trump helped them, because he's one of them?

[alancalverd]

Fact: there are about 250,000,000 descendants of uninvited immigrants in the USA, and about 50,000,000 descendants of unwilling immigrants. "Legal" is irrelevant. They have no rightful place there and should all go back where they came from.

But who stole the election, and how did they do it?

[Jolly2 (OP)]

no matter how bad you think Trump is, the swamp things that control America are worse.

You misunderstand.
When I say "Trump is the swamp", I don't mean he is as bad.
I mean they are two aspects of the same entity.

Except they are not, the elites are not uniform in their approach and they also have conflict, the populist side of the equation lead by people like Steve Bannon are completely opposed to the Neoliberal Agenda that has seen American industry sent off to China. There's a national verse global conflict the corporations that seek an international system despise national governments as they all interfere with their agendas.

No I choose a source that gave a higher number. Because 34 million isnt the high end figure.

The credible figure is about 11 million. But, if you can find a reckless enough pressure group, I'm sure they will tell you that a tenth of all Americans - including the pensioners and children-  are illegal immigrants and you will believe it.

Nobody else will.

Doesnt matter to the overall point, the Democrats serve corporate interests and the corporations want wages as low as possible. The 11 million Biden will give citizenship now, combined with the damage covid has done to main street, and all the millions of more migrants now flooding into America are going to devastate wages. Any gains in wages that Trump managed to get for workers are going to be more then lost.

That's the same fox News the swamp is trying to get removed.

In what way, and since when?

There are plenty of calls now to remove fox news in America.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

Fact: there are about 250,000,000 descendants of uninvited immigrants in the USA, and about 50,000,000 descendants of unwilling immigrants. "Legal" is irrelevant. They have no rightful place there and should all go back where they came from.

But who stole the election, and how did they do it?

The Cabal didnt steal the election they fortified it, they conspired to prevent a populist winning, because the Cabal have a different definition of what democracy is, they believe the people should have no involvement in the way a country is run, democracy in their terms is that corporations and the elites that own them Rule, at best the people can vote for which company they like when shopping.

[Bored chemist]

the populist side of the equation lead by people like Steve Bannon are completely opposed to the Neoliberal Agenda that has seen American industry sent off to China.

... where Trump has a business bank account and dealings.

Trump exported jobs to China.
He is the swamp.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/09/17/donald-trump-trade-policies-damage-american-workers-column/5807633002/

[Bored chemist]

they believe the people should have no involvement in the way a country is run, democracy in their terms is that corporations and the elites that own them Rule,

That's actually the Republican's policy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html

[alancalverd]

The Cabal didnt steal the election

So who did? Trump said it, you said it, but neither of you has told us who or how. Neither of you would make a false allegation, surely? 

[Jolly2 (OP)]

The Cabal didnt steal the election

So who did?

They did, it's all relative to a persons point of view, if you believe that democracy is a system where the people vote and elect someone to represent them,  then the cabal prevented that happening and so stole the election.

However if you believe democracy is defined as 'rule by corporate business', where the people have to kept as far away from power as is possible, the people have to be spoon feed information, kept in a position of ignorance and then every few years the society pretends to have elections while the actual election is fake and the winner is already predecided. Then if the latter definition is your definition then the cabal fortified democracy,  by holding a fake election.

Trump said it, you said it, but neither of you has told us who or how. Neither of you would make a false allegation, surely?

No I have repeatedly the group confessed it themselves in the time magazine article.


"even though it sounds like a paranoid fever dream–a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information. They were not rigging the election; they were fortifying it."

They were fortifying an election their definition demands is fake. Under the cabals definition that is what elections are FAkE. And they fortified that system

[Bored chemist]

No I have repeatedly the group confessed it themselves in the time magazine article.

That's not a confession of anything.
It's not evidence of stealing, or of trying to steal, an election.
People, and groups of people, are allowed to seek to influence voters.

Do you recognise that?

[alancalverd]

influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information.

That is the normal business of politics, not election-rigging.

[Bored chemist]

Data analysts have some shocking revelations about the algorithms used. You see the exact same % ratios across multiple states and precincts,  one data analysts stated the possibility of it happening naturally are impossible.

It seems that Trumps lawyers think you are not a "reasonable person".
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/23/sidney-powell-trump-election-fraud-claims?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR23YzweS8sebzNJmIl7Q-vHuKK8Z2kon1bHkf82dvurb1yqe0PECeDc3LQ#Echobox=1616516106