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  4. Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
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Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?

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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« on: 16/04/2021 19:09:10 »
My model of the electron seems to suggest "Yes".

Is it possible that the electron magnetic moment oscillates at a very rapid rate?
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #1 on: 16/04/2021 20:03:44 »
I think you'll need to define what you mean by an oscillating magnetic moment. However, neutrinos also have a spin of 1/2 and, so far as I know, don't have a magnetic moment at all.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #2 on: 17/04/2021 11:59:21 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 16/04/2021 20:03:44
I think you'll need to define what you mean by an oscillating magnetic moment.

I mean it starts from a finite, nonzero value a rises to a+b, goes down again to a then goes down to a-c > 0, then rises again to a.

Neutrinos can have oscillating isospin moment.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #3 on: 17/04/2021 12:12:41 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 16/04/2021 19:09:10
Is it possible that the electron magnetic moment oscillates at a very rapid rate?
No.
Because, if it did, I could put one near a coil of wire and get it to generate free energy.

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Offline evan_au

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #4 on: 17/04/2021 13:15:54 »
Magnetic Resonance Imaging makes use of the fact that protons (hydrogen nuclei) will line up with an external magnetic field, and will precess around this magnetic field lines while lining up and when relaxing. This produces radio-frequency signals that can be processed into images of your body.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_magnetic_resonance

The same effect occurs for unpaired electrons. But because the mass of an electron is much lower than a proton, the precession frequency is much higher.

Quote from: Wikipedia
for a magnetic field of 3350 Gauss, spin resonance occurs near 9388.2 MHz for an electron compared to only about 14.3 MHz for 1H nuclei.
One reason that electron resonance imaging has not been used for medical imaging is that your soft tissue is full of hydrogen nuclei with unpaired protons (eg in water and organic chemicals), while most stable organic molecules have paired electrons.
- Plus, 10GHz does not penetrate your body nearly as well as 14MHz
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_magnetic_resonance

Quote from: talanum1
it starts from a finite, nonzero value a rises to a+b, goes down again to a then goes down to a-c > 0, then rises again to a.
Algebraic salad.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #5 on: 17/04/2021 17:29:33 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 17/04/2021 11:59:21
I mean it starts from a finite, nonzero value a rises to a+b, goes down again to a then goes down to a-c > 0, then rises again to a.

A spontaneously changing spin sounds like it would violate conservation of angular momentum.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #6 on: 17/04/2021 19:28:12 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 17/04/2021 17:29:33
A spontaneously changing spin sounds like it would violate conservation of angular momentum.

Not in my model: the circle with mass on it rotates steadily while the circle with electric charge rotates faster and slower in an oscillatory fashion.

My model does allow for a non varying magnetic moment, but then the mass charges must be correct. My model requires the electron to be orders of magnitude bigger than the Planck Length.
« Last Edit: 17/04/2021 19:35:41 by talanum1 »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #7 on: 17/04/2021 19:32:50 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 17/04/2021 19:28:12
electric charge rotates faster and slower in an oscillatory fashion.
That's an oscillating charge and will emit EM radiation.
It can't do that without breaking the conservation laws.
So you need a better model- one which is not actually impossible.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #8 on: 17/04/2021 20:04:00 »
What would you say if I say my model must allow the mass charge circle to rotate slower and faster?
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #9 on: 17/04/2021 20:11:27 »
I can keep the mass circle spinning smoothly and let the charge circle rotate at half the angular speed. In order for the electron to look the same after two mass circle rotations.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #10 on: 17/04/2021 21:13:05 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 17/04/2021 19:28:12
Not in my model

Then your model is inconsistent with the laws of physics.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #11 on: 17/04/2021 21:57:42 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 17/04/2021 20:04:00
What would you say if I say my model must allow the mass charge circle to rotate slower and faster?
I'd ask why you were still dragging the dead corpse of your idea around.
It's not going to come back to life.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #12 on: 18/04/2021 12:11:26 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 17/04/2021 21:13:05
Then your model is inconsistent with the laws of physics.

The Laws of Physics that imply particles are points are wrong at small distances from the particle.

Quote from: Bored chemist on 17/04/2021 21:57:42
I'd ask why you were still dragging the dead corpse of your idea around.

It was never dead: see above.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #13 on: 18/04/2021 12:17:04 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2021 12:11:26
The Laws of Physics that imply particles are points
No law of  physics makes any such implication.

Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2021 12:11:26
Quote from: Bored chemist on Yesterday at 21:57:42
I'd ask why you were still dragging the dead corpse of your idea around.

It was never dead: see above.
It is dead.
See above.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #14 on: 18/04/2021 14:56:48 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2021 12:11:26
The Laws of Physics that imply particles are points are wrong at small distances from the particle.

What law of physics states that?
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #15 on: 18/04/2021 16:17:51 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 18/04/2021 14:56:48
What law of physics states that?

Irrelevant since:

Quote from: Bored chemist on 18/04/2021 12:17:04
No law of  physics makes any such implication.

Quote from: Bored chemist on 18/04/2021 12:17:04
It is dead.

You haven't even seen the entire model.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #16 on: 18/04/2021 16:37:18 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2021 16:17:51
You haven't even seen the entire model.
I don't need to.
This bit of it is wrong, so the whole thing is wrong.
Quote from: Bored chemist on 17/04/2021 12:12:41
Quote from: talanum1 on 16/04/2021 19:09:10
Is it possible that the electron magnetic moment oscillates at a very rapid rate?
No.
Because, if it did, I could put one near a coil of wire and get it to generate free energy.


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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #17 on: 18/04/2021 16:39:45 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2021 16:17:51
Irrelevant since:
Did you really not understand that Kryptid and I were making the same point.
You said
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2021 12:11:26
The Laws of Physics that imply particles are points are wrong at small distances from the particle.
And we both pointed out that no such law of physics exist.
So your "argument" is based on a false premise  so it is wrong.

That's it.
Your idea is dead.
Why are you still dragging the corpse around?
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #18 on: 18/04/2021 17:34:26 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 18/04/2021 16:17:51
Quote from: Kryptid on 18/04/2021 14:56:48
What law of physics states that?

Irrelevant since:

Quote from: Bored chemist on 18/04/2021 12:17:04
No law of  physics makes any such implication.

You're contradicting yourself, because you said:

Quote
The Laws of Physics that imply particles are points are wrong at small distances from the particle.

Quote
You haven't even seen the entire model.

The part that violates a law of physics is dead, at least. Angular momentum doesn't spontaneously appear and disappear.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does Spin 1/2 Imply Quickly Varying Magnetic Moment?
« Reply #19 on: 19/04/2021 09:46:35 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 18/04/2021 17:34:26
You're contradicting yourself, because you said:

Quote
The Laws of Physics that imply particles are points are wrong at small distances from the particle.

No, I'm simply taking his word for it.

Quote from: Kryptid on 18/04/2021 17:34:26
The part that violates a law of physics is dead, at least

Yes, it's dead. The post of 17/04/2021 20:11:27 super-seeds the post of 17/04/2021 20:04:00.
« Last Edit: 19/04/2021 09:50:24 by talanum1 »
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