The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. On the Lighter Side
  3. New Theories
  4. Are Spin 1/2 Particles Points?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Are Spin 1/2 Particles Points?

  • 30 Replies
  • 6379 Views
  • 0 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    13%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Are Spin 1/2 Particles Points?
« Reply #20 on: 31/10/2021 18:47:59 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 31/10/2021 15:59:05
It's better than leaving mass undefined.
Not only is it obvious that mass is defined, there are even TV shows and reports about redefining the unit of mass.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 



Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Are Spin 1/2 Particles Points?
« Reply #21 on: 01/11/2021 09:12:53 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 31/10/2021 18:47:59
Not only is it obvious that mass is defined

It isn't explained, except by my model of particles.
Logged
 

Offline puppypower

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1652
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 125 times
Re: Are Spin 1/2 Particles Points?
« Reply #22 on: 01/11/2021 10:52:05 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 31/10/2021 18:47:07
I have highlighted a few examples of utter nonsense for you.
Feel free to replace them with something meaningful.
Quote from: puppypower on 31/10/2021 18:21:08
time potential;
Quote from: puppypower on 31/10/2021 18:21:08
time potential.

Quote from: puppypower on 31/10/2021 18:21:08
extra space is not needed to express the extra potential
Quote from: puppypower on 31/10/2021 18:21:08
One could move in time without any entanglement with space ; omniscience, and/or move in space without any entanglement with time; omnipresent.


If we start with a particle that occupies a volume=V, and give the particle spin, the volume of space requirement does not change. The particle will still occupy volume =V. What does change is the frequency, which is defined as 1/time. The spinning particle has potential in time, via its frequency, without any change in the space volume requirement.

Particle velocity is different. In this case, the frequency does not change, but the space volume requirement becomes a function of time, via velocity; d/t. If the particle is both spinning and has velocity such as an electron in an orbital, there is velocity; space-time, plus frequency; extra time potential. This adds up to acceleration; d/t/t, connected to the centrifugal force.

Space-time is not the only show in town. Separate potentials in space and in time can also exist without them being fully entangled with each other, on top of the matrix of space-time. It is easier to keep track by calling these extras time and distance potential.
Logged
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    13%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Are Spin 1/2 Particles Points?
« Reply #23 on: 01/11/2021 12:55:06 »
Quote from: puppypower on 01/11/2021 10:52:05
via velocity; d/t
d/dt is not a velocity, it's an operator.

You seem to have interpreted my suggestion that you add more sense as meaning you should add more nonsense.
Quote from: puppypower on 01/11/2021 10:52:05
If we start with a particle that occupies a volume=V, and give the particle spin, the volume of space requirement does not change.
Nobody ever said it did.
Did you think you were making some sort of point?
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline Origin

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 2248
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 210 times
  • Nothing of importance
Re: Are Spin 1/2 Particles Points?
« Reply #24 on: 01/11/2021 13:22:13 »
Quote from: puppypower on 01/11/2021 10:52:05
If we start with a particle that occupies a volume=V, and give the particle spin, the volume of space requirement does not change. The particle will still occupy volume =V. What does change is the frequency, which is defined as 1/time.
The term 'spin' in subatomic particles is not referring to particles actually rotating, so you are off to a bad start here!
Quote from: puppypower on 01/11/2021 10:52:05
Separate potentials in space and in time can also exist without them being fully entangled with each other, on top of the matrix of space-time.
Stringing together sciency sounding words with out conveying any meaning is not what is normally thought of as science.
Logged
 



Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Are Spin 1/2 Particles Points?
« Reply #25 on: 01/11/2021 15:39:05 »
You keep insisting that particles don't spin, but they have a property analogous to spin. This appeals to magic.
Logged
 

Offline talanum1 (OP)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 775
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Are Spin 1/2 Particles Points?
« Reply #26 on: 01/11/2021 16:24:35 »
The usual definition of mass is circular.

My definition says: mass is encoded by space points on a circle in a particle. Half of the circle is made of left-out points of space.
Logged
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 31101
  • Activity:
    13%
  • Thanked: 1291 times
Re: Are Spin 1/2 Particles Points?
« Reply #27 on: 01/11/2021 17:41:25 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 01/11/2021 16:24:35
The usual definition of mass is circular.

My definition says: mass is encoded by space points on a circle in a particle. Half of the circle is made of left-out points of space.
I prefer  the allegedly circular one to the meaningless one.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline Origin

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 2248
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 210 times
  • Nothing of importance
Re: Are Spin 1/2 Particles Points?
« Reply #28 on: 01/11/2021 19:08:52 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 01/11/2021 15:39:05
You keep insisting that particles don't spin, but they have a property analogous to spin.
The particles have angular momentum that is not associated to an actual rotation of the particles.
Quote from: talanum1 on 01/11/2021 15:39:05
This appeals to magic.
It seems that way to you because you don't understand physics.  It's like showing a lighter to a stone age man, they would think it is magic fire.
Logged
 



Offline puppypower

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1652
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 125 times
Re: Are Spin 1/2 Particles Points?
« Reply #29 on: 02/11/2021 13:47:22 »
One property of mass is mass occupies space. If we collect mass together, via gravity, and this mass occupies space, there is less local space. This is reflected as the contraction of mass and the contraction of local space.

Mass has a connection to time, since quanta of time exists within the quantum gaps of quantum space to form space-time. When mass occupies space it couples to time. 

Mass cannot travel at the speed of light and therefore this limitation allows finite time to appear via mass. Without mass and only particles moving at the speed of light, space-time is not valid for any particle reference. Mass, by occupying quanta of space, allows time to couple to space and mass to form space-time and finite durations of time and space. I call this mass potential. Mass potential is a like placeholder for time via how it occupies space.

The complexity of the laws of physics can be reduced to these three variables; mass, distance and time potential, since they imply all the rest. One way to see this is with special relativity. Velocity will cause changes in mass, distance and time via relativity. Since the laws of physics are the same in all references, changes in just there three variables, cause by relativistic velocity, will cause all the rest of the variables of physics to adjust so the laws can remain the same.  These three variables can control of all the rest. Various combinations of these three variables will define each of the classic laws.

For example, all forces create accelerations which are defined as d//t/t. These accelerations are all one part distance potential and two parts time potential. Each force has different values of distance and time potential, but all will follow the same simple schema. Current theory is too cumbersome and leads to misunderstanding.
Logged
 

Offline Origin

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 2248
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 210 times
  • Nothing of importance
Re: Are Spin 1/2 Particles Points?
« Reply #30 on: 02/11/2021 14:02:53 »
Quote from: puppypower on 02/11/2021 13:47:22
One property of mass is mass occupies space.
Mass is a property.  So you are trying discuss properties of a property??

Also an electron has mass but no apparent size, so your statement is at odds with physics.

So your first sentence is wrong and the entire rest of the post is just more incorrect guesses... at least you are consistent. ::)
Logged
 



  • Print
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags:
 
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.564 seconds with 48 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.