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The theory of the human body special mass

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #100 on: 10/04/2022 14:16:11 »
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 10/04/2022 13:29:13
Quote from: Kryptid on 07/04/2022 21:50:42
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 07/04/2022 21:45:35
It shouldn't make that big difference of jumping fast against gravity and barely moving the rock

Okay, prove it (and do it with an actual, good argument, not mere intuition).
A person stands on a scale he holds a15 kg block on his hands and his arms are stretched out in front of his body  in which his arms make a lever its fulcrum is at the elbow. The position is equivalent to trying to pick a fruit  on a tree in which the fulcrum is at the toes . If he lifts the rock up as a lever the scale will read 15+60 kg that is the 15 kgf is the force he lifts the rock with which equals to the mass of the rock 15 kg. As the rock 15 kg needed 15 kgf, a rock of 60 kg will need a 60 kgf.
Lifting the rock will need a 60 kgf lifting or jumping with his body will need a very smaller force x kgf.  That why he can jump fast against gravity but he will barely move a rock of 60 kg.

None of that made any real sense.
Quote from: Dave Lev on 08/04/2022 19:55:19
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 07/04/2022 20:13:30
my experiments say: as I can jump around easily I can lift my body with small force x*9.8 N too.
Sorry to jump in.
However, what is so unique in your jump?
I can offer you several animals with a similar mass that can jump and lift much better than you do.
So why do you focus on the human body mass?
Why don't you focus on the human brain ability/mass?
Just think about it - You won't find any creature/animal in the entire planet that would claim that its body mass is special.
You won't hear me say this often, but Dave just made a very good point.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #101 on: 10/04/2022 14:17:10 »
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 10/04/2022 13:29:13
jumping with his body will need a very smaller force x kgf.

You haven't shown why this should be the case.
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Offline Origin

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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #102 on: 10/04/2022 14:31:26 »
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 10/04/2022 13:29:13
A person stands on a scale he holds a15 kg block on his hands and his arms are stretched out in front of his body  in which his arms make a lever its fulcrum is at the elbow. The position is equivalent to trying to pick a fruit  on a tree in which the fulcrum is at the toes . If he lifts the rock up as a lever the scale will read 15+60 kg
No, you don't have to lift the 15 kg weight.  If you hold perfectly still holding the 15 kg weight your combined weight will measure 15 + 60 kg.  If you raise the 15 kg weight the scale will read 15 + 60 + x kg.  The 'x' will be a small percentage of the weight while you are lifting it but when you stop lifting it the scale will return to the 15 + 60 kg.
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Online Yahya A.Sharif (OP)

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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #103 on: 10/04/2022 15:35:04 »
Quote from: Origin on 10/04/2022 14:31:26
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 10/04/2022 13:29:13
A person stands on a scale he holds a15 kg block on his hands and his arms are stretched out in front of his body  in which his arms make a lever its fulcrum is at the elbow. The position is equivalent to trying to pick a fruit  on a tree in which the fulcrum is at the toes . If he lifts the rock up as a lever the scale will read 15+60 kg
No, you don't have to lift the 15 kg weight.  If you hold perfectly still holding the 15 kg weight your combined weight will measure 15 + 60 kg. 
Thanks for correction
The scale will show 15+60=75 kg instead of 60 kg. The body 60 kg plus the rock he carries 15 kg.
Quote from: Origin on 10/04/2022 14:31:26
If you raise the 15 kg weight the scale will read 15 + 60 + x kg.  The 'x' will be a small percentage of the weight while you are lifting it but when you stop lifting it the scale will return to the 15 + 60 kg

It will read 75+15+x this is if he raises the total, his body and the rock with his feet. 75 kg what the scale first reads adding to it x kgf to lift the body and 15 kgf to lift the rock a total of 75+15+x kg
But if he raises the rock up by his arms he lifts the 15 kg alone because his body didn't move upwards.
The scale will show 75+15 the force the scale shows 75 kgf plus the force he lifts the rock with 15 kgf. The force needed to lift the rock is 15 kgf and the force needed to lift a 60 kg rock will be 60 kgf which is very big compared to the force needed to lift a human x kgf
« Last Edit: 10/04/2022 16:12:59 by Yahya A.Sharif »
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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #104 on: 10/04/2022 17:09:14 »
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 10/04/2022 15:35:04
It will read 75+15+x this is if he raises the total, his body and the rock with his feet. 75 kg what the scale first reads adding to it x kgf to lift the body and 15 kgf to lift the rock a total of 75+15+x kg
No that is not correct.  It would be 75 + x kg. 
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 10/04/2022 15:35:04
But if he raises the rock up by his arms he lifts the 15 kg alone because his body didn't move upwards.
The scale will show 75+15 the force the scale shows 75 kgf plus the force he lifts the rock with 15 kgf.
No that is not correct.  When you are on the scale holding the rock the force on the scale is 75 kg (60 + 15).  You can look at it like this; when the rock is held steady, your body and the rock are accelerating at 9.8 m/s^2.
So when the rock is not moving:
F = (60 x 9.8 m/s^2) + (15 x 9.8 m/s^2) = 735 N

Let's say you raise the rock 1 meter in a second.  That is  roughly an acceleration of 2 m/s^2. 

So the overall acceleration of the rock is:
9.8 m/s^2 + 2 m/s^2 = 11.8 m/s^2

So when the rock is moving:
F = (60 x 9.8 m/s^2) + (15 x 11.8 m/s^2) = 765 N

So when the rock is moving the scale will read about (765 N) / (9.8 m/s^2) = 78 kg, which is 60 + 18 kg.

« Last Edit: 10/04/2022 17:11:29 by Origin »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #105 on: 10/04/2022 17:53:57 »
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 10/04/2022 15:35:04
It will read 75+15+x this is if he raises the total, his body and the rock with his feet. 75 kg what the scale first reads adding to it x kgf to lift the body and 15 kgf to lift the rock a total of 75+15+x kg
You seem to be missing the point.
In science, just saying "This will happen" is not good enough.
You have to actually show that it does happen.

And, from what we already know, it will not actually happen.

Just typing words on teh internet does not change reality.
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Online Yahya A.Sharif (OP)

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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #106 on: 10/04/2022 17:57:00 »
Quote from: Origin on 10/04/2022 17:09:14
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 10/04/2022 15:35:04
It will read 75+15+x this is if he raises the total, his body and the rock with his feet. 75 kg what the scale first reads adding to it x kgf to lift the body and 15 kgf to lift the rock a total of 75+15+x kg
No that is not correct.  It would be 75 + x kg. 
The person instead of consisting of human body 75 kg he is 60 kg human and carries an object 15 kg I will not be able to add the 15 kg to the 60 kg because one of them is human and the other is object .So he will need a force to lift the object 15 kgf plus the force to lift his body x kgf so the force will be 15+x kgf and the scale will show 75+15+x
Quote from: Origin on 10/04/2022 17:09:14
No that is not correct.  When you are on the scale holding the rock the force on the scale is 75 kg (60 + 15).  You can look at it like this; when the rock is held steady, your body and the rock are accelerating at 9.8 m/s^2.
So when the rock is not moving:
F = (60 x 9.8 m/s^2) + (15 x 9.8 m/s^2) = 735 N

Let's say you raise the rock 1 meter in a second.  That is  roughly an acceleration of 2 m/s^2. 

So the overall acceleration of the rock is:
9.8 m/s^2 + 2 m/s^2 = 11.8 m/s^2

So when the rock is moving:
F = (60 x 9.8 m/s^2) + (15 x 11.8 m/s^2) = 765 N

So when the rock is moving the scale will read about (765 N) / (9.8 m/s^2) = 78 kg, which is 60 + 18 kg.
The rock is not at speed it is barely moved up.  This is like you stand on a scale and push a roof over you. When I lift the rock it will resist like the roof,  the resistance will appear on the scale, the resistance will stop at 15 kg as soon as I lift the rock
When I lift the rock I will have reaction on the scale that push me up with 15 kgf  so I will only add 15 kg to what the scale actually shows
« Last Edit: 09/05/2022 22:41:10 by Yahya A.Sharif »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #107 on: 10/04/2022 18:01:53 »
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 10/04/2022 17:57:00
will not be able to add the 15 kg to the 60 kg because one of them is human and the other is object .
Quote from: Bored chemist on 10/04/2022 17:53:57
You seem to be missing the point.
In science, just saying "This will happen" is not good enough.
You have to actually show that it does happen.

And, from what we already know, it will not actually happen.

Just typing words on teh internet does not change reality.

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Offline Origin

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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #108 on: 10/04/2022 19:26:47 »
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 10/04/2022 17:57:00
The person instead of consisting of human body 75 kg he is 60 kg human and carries an object 15 kg I will not be able to add the 15 kg to the 60 kg because one of them is human and the other is object
Since you are not using physics or any science to come up with this, no amount of physics can convince you otherwise.

Members have shown you in multiple ways why you are wrong.  You have ignored all efforts to help you to understand and your only reply is to repeat your own incorrect conclusions.  You apparently are not trying or not capable of understanding your error so this really is pointless. 

I recommend to close this thread since the only thing we will see is for Yahya just keep repeating his inaccurate claims.
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Online hamdani yusuf

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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #109 on: 11/04/2022 04:33:17 »
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 10/04/2022 17:57:00
The person instead of consisting of human body 75 kg he is 60 kg human and carries an object 15 kg I will not be able to add the 15 kg to the 60 kg because one of them is human and the other is object .
If you drink 1 kg of water, your weight becomes 61 kg. How can the scale distinguish between your original weight and the weight of the water?
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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #110 on: 11/04/2022 16:27:03 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 11/04/2022 04:33:17
If you drink 1 kg of water, your weight becomes 61 kg. How can the scale distinguish between your original weight and the weight of the water?
Are you serious?!
Here is the answer, it is a tough one but I will try and answer it - before you drink the water you weigh 60kg and after you drink the water you will weigh 61kg and scales measure weight!
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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #111 on: 11/04/2022 22:04:20 »
Quote from: Origin on 11/04/2022 16:27:03
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 11/04/2022 04:33:17
If you drink 1 kg of water, your weight becomes 61 kg. How can the scale distinguish between your original weight and the weight of the water?
Are you serious?!
Here is the answer, it is a tough one but I will try and answer it - before you drink the water you weigh 60kg and after you drink the water you will weigh 61kg and scales measure weight!
It's a serious question if it's addressed to the OP.
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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #112 on: 11/04/2022 22:04:37 »
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 11/04/2022 21:59:09
Nobody understand.
Yes we do. It's just that you are wrong.
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Online hamdani yusuf

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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #113 on: 13/04/2022 04:51:04 »
Quote from: Origin on 11/04/2022 16:27:03
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 11/04/2022 04:33:17
If you drink 1 kg of water, your weight becomes 61 kg. How can the scale distinguish between your original weight and the weight of the water?
Are you serious?!
Here is the answer, it is a tough one but I will try and answer it - before you drink the water you weigh 60kg and after you drink the water you will weigh 61kg and scales measure weight!
It looks like you are missing the context.
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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #114 on: 13/04/2022 10:42:09 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 13/04/2022 04:51:04
Quote from: Origin on 11/04/2022 16:27:03
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 11/04/2022 04:33:17
If you drink 1 kg of water, your weight becomes 61 kg. How can the scale distinguish between your original weight and the weight of the water?
Are you serious?!
Here is the answer, it is a tough one but I will try and answer it - before you drink the water you weigh 60kg and after you drink the water you will weigh 61kg and scales measure weight!
It looks like you are missing the context.
It looks like your idea is wrong.
What context is there where that extra 1Kg is part of the body (so it weighs less than 1Kg) , but not part of the body (so it weighs 1Kg)?
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Online Yahya A.Sharif (OP)

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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #115 on: 13/04/2022 13:26:07 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 11/04/2022 04:33:17
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 10/04/2022 17:57:00
The person instead of consisting of human body 75 kg he is 60 kg human and carries an object 15 kg I will not be able to add the 15 kg to the 60 kg because one of them is human and the other is object .
If you drink 1 kg of water, your weight becomes 61 kg. How can the scale distinguish between your original weight and the weight of the water?
It is simple. No magical scales are needed. It is just a matter of calculations:
A human weight is 60 kg doesn't change. Water weight is 1 kg doesn't change. The scale shows 61 kg, water weight plus human weight. He lifts his body alone before drinking water with x kgf and 1 kg mass needs 1 kgf to be lifted . So the force to  lift both after drinking is x+1 kgf The scale will change from first measurement 61 kg to 61+(x+1) kgf
« Last Edit: 02/05/2022 12:38:50 by Yahya A.Sharif »
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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #116 on: 13/04/2022 13:26:29 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 13/04/2022 04:51:04
A human weight is 60 kg doesn't change. Water weight is 1 kg doesn't change. The scale shows 61 kg, water weight plus human weight.
You figured it out.  Good.
« Last Edit: 13/04/2022 13:28:53 by Origin »
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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #117 on: 13/04/2022 16:34:29 »
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 13/04/2022 13:26:07
It is simple. No magical scales are needed. It is just a matter of calculations:
A human weight is 60 kg doesn't change. Water weight is 1 kg doesn't change. The scale shows 61 kg, water weight plus human weight. He lifts his body alone before drinking water with x kgf and 1 kg mass needs 1 kgf to be lifted . So the force to  lift both after drinking is x+1 kgf The scale will change from first measurement 61 kg to 61+(x+1) kg, the force he lifts his body with x+1 kgf plus the first read 61 kgf.

All of the mass in your body used to be in the form of non-living material (food, water, and perhaps surgical implants if you have them). Please explain how that matter somehow magically requires less force to lift merely because its atoms have been arranged into the form of living tissue.
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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #118 on: 13/04/2022 22:28:24 »
Quote from: Origin on 13/04/2022 13:26:29
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 13/04/2022 04:51:04
A human weight is 60 kg doesn't change. Water weight is 1 kg doesn't change. The scale shows 61 kg, water weight plus human weight.
You figured it out.  Good.
You misquoted. Bad.
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Re: The theory of the human body special mass
« Reply #119 on: 13/04/2022 22:45:26 »
Quote from: Yahya A.Sharif on 13/04/2022 13:26:07
The scale will change from first measurement 61 kg to 61+(x+1) kg, the force he lifts his body with x+1 kgf plus the first read 61 kgf.
Have you tried this simple experiment?
Don't you want to know the truth?
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