[Bored chemist]

I didn't find it.

It may take more than 70 minutes.

[Bored chemist]

So who can explain the functionality of the Bar in the spiral galaxy?

Why do you think it has a "function"?

[Dave Lev (OP)]

So who can explain the functionality of the Bar in the spiral galaxy?

Why do you think it has a "function"?

Do you think that the bar is there in spiral galaxy just for the fun?
The bar is an integrated part of spiral structure/body.
As an example - Every part in our body has a function.
So why do you think that the spiral galaxy has a Bar without any function?

[Bored chemist]

As an example - Every part in our body has a function.

There are essentially two schools of thought about that- evolution or God.

Which one do you think applies to a galaxy and is a suitable topic for discussion on a science site?

It's like asking what is the purpose of a rock on the beach.It's not there "for" anything, it's just there.

[Kryptid]

So who can explain the functionality of the Bar in the spiral galaxy?

Probably an astrophysicist. If you can find one, you can ask them.

[Dave Lev (OP)]

It's like asking what is the purpose of a rock on the beach.It's not there "for" anything, it's just there.

How can you compare a rock to the Bar.
I have just found the following article:
https://www.schoolsobservatory.org/learn/astro/gals/class/barredspiral
"Bars are found in up to 65% of spiral galaxies. They affect the motions of stars, dust and gas. It is believed that bars act a bit like a funnel, pulling matter into the bulge from the disk. This leads to stars forming in bursts within the centre."
So, based on this article, the Bar has an important function:
It affects the motions of stars, dust and gas from one side to the other side as a funnel.
This is 100% correct.
Those scientists believe that bar is pulling matter into the bulge from the disk.
However, is it the correct direction?
Based on what kind of observation they set this "believe" and why do they use this word?
Could it be that they just not sure about the direction and therefore they say "believe"?
Technically, why other scientists can't claim that they believe that the flow in the Bar is on the other way?
Now that we have clear observation on the Bar as it is connected with the spiral arm and we also have the knowledge about the orbital velocity of stars in that section, is there a possibility to get clear understanding about the flow direction?

[Origin]

They affect the motions of stars, dust and gas. It is believed that bars act a bit like a funnel, pulling matter into the bulge from the disk

You might find this interesting:. https://www.universetoday.com/151820/the-milky-ways-central-bar-spin-rate-is-slowing-down-thanks-to-dark-matter/#more-151820

[Dave Lev (OP)]

They affect the motions of stars, dust and gas. It is believed that bars act a bit like a funnel, pulling matter into the bulge from the disk

You might find this interesting:. https://www.universetoday.com/151820/the-milky-ways-central-bar-spin-rate-is-slowing-down-thanks-to-dark-matter/#more-151820

Thanks Origin
Yes, it is very interesting article.
It is stated:
"So the Hercules stream follows the motion of the central bar, and the stars of the Hercules stream have migrated outwards to their present position over the past few billion years".
In other words - our scientists OBSERVE stream of stars (that is called - Hercules stream) as it migrates outwards from the central bar.
Therefore, it is an indication that stars from the central Bar migrate outwards and not inwards, exactly as I have estimated.
There is one more evidence for that:

https://scitechdaily.com/galactic-bar-paradox-a-mysterious-and-long-standing-cosmic-conundrum-resolved-in-cosmic-dance/
It is stated:
"The bar pulsations result from its regular encounters with the Galactic spiral arms, in what can be described as a “cosmic dance”. As the bar and spiral arm approach each other, their mutual attraction due to gravity makes the bar slow down and the spiral speed up.Once connected, the two structures move as one and the bar appears much longer and slower than it actually is. As the dancers split apart, the bar speeds up while the spiral slows back down."

The following message is very interesting:
"The bar in the center and the spiral arms are thought to rotate at different speeds. If they are disconnected the bar shows its true and smaller structure (left). Every time they meet, the bar appears longer"
Let's tray to read it carefully:
It is stated: "Every time they meet, the bar appears longer"
So, Every time the Bar meets with the spiral arm, it appears longer"
The only way for the Bar to appear longer is when the stars in the bar migrate outwards.
Therefore, the strong gravity force of the spiral arm force the bar to migrate stars outwards and therefore it appers longer.

However, it is also stated: "If they are disconnected the bar shows its true and smaller structure (left)"
Hence, as the bar is disconnected from the spiral arm it is losing a section/segment of its size/arm and therefore it looks smaller.
In other words - as the Bar is in the direction of the spiral arm, a steam of stars are moving outwards from the bar (It looks longer) and it is connected to the spiral arm as they both are in a temporary one structure.

Hence, when the Bar arm is disconnected from the spiral arm, it lose some section of its size/arm and it appears smaller.
On the other hand, the spiral arm gets new section of stars and it appears longer at the disconnecting moment.
That proves that the bar function as a funnel that deliver stars from the Bulge into the spiral arm.
This is the most important observation of the spiral galaxy activity.

[Bored chemist]

How can you compare a rock to the Bar.

Because they are both where gravity left them.
Why should I not compare them?

[Bored chemist]

So, based on this article, the Bar has an important function:

NO

A function means that there is intent.
The bar has an effect, but not a function.
You need to realise that galaxies do not think.

A rock on the beach may have seaweed of it, but supporting seaweed is not its function.

[Dave Lev (OP)]

A function means that there is intent.
The bar has an effect, but not a function.

Well, the Bar funnels/migrates the stars from the Bulge directly to the spiral arms.
If you prefer to call this activity as effect instead of function - then this is perfectly OK.

You need to realise that galaxies do not think.

I agree, they do not think, they work.
Our mission is to verify how they really work.

[Origin]

Our mission is to verify how they really work.

No, you're not going to verify anything.  The best you can do is to try to understand what the scientist have discovered.  You have not done so well on that so far.  But you can always improve.

[Bored chemist]

If you prefer to call this activity as effect instead of function - then this is perfectly OK.

It is perfectly OK for me to use the right word.
It is not OK for you to use the wrong one.

[Dave Lev (OP)]

The best you can do is to try to understand what the scientist have discovered.

To which scientist you aim and to which discovery you want us to focus?
In the article that you have offered our scientists OBSERVE stream of stars (that is called - Hercules stream) as it migrates outwards from the central bar:

You might find this interesting:. https://www.universetoday.com/151820/the-milky-ways-central-bar-spin-rate-is-slowing-down-thanks-to-dark-matter/#more-151820

"So the Hercules stream follows the motion of the central bar, and the stars of the Hercules stream have migrated outwards to their present position over the past few billion years".
In other words - our scientists OBSERVE stream of stars (that is called - Hercules stream) as it migrates outwards from the central bar.
Therefore, it is an indication that stars from the central Bar migrate outwards and not inwards, exactly as I have estimated.

However, based on the following article, other scientists believe that the Bar is pulling matter into the bulge from the disk:

https://www.schoolsobservatory.org/learn/astro/gals/class/barredspiral
"Bars are found in up to 65% of spiral galaxies. They affect the motions of stars, dust and gas. It is believed that bars act a bit like a funnel, pulling matter into the bulge from the disk. This leads to stars forming in bursts within the centre."
.

Don't forget that the following observation also proves that stars migrate outwards from the Bar directly into the spiral arms:

The following message is very interesting:
https://scitechdaily.com/galactic-bar-paradox-a-mysterious-and-long-standing-cosmic-conundrum-resolved-in-cosmic-dance/
"The bar in the center and the spiral arms are thought to rotate at different speeds. If they are disconnected the bar shows its true and smaller structure (left). Every time they meet, the bar appears longer"
Let's try to read it carefully:
It is stated: "Every time they meet, the bar appears longer"
So, Every time the Bar meets with the spiral arm, it appears longer"
The only way for the Bar to appear longer is when the stars in the bar migrate outwards.
Therefore, the strong gravity force of the spiral arm force the bar to migrate stars outwards and therefore it appears longer.

However, it is also stated: "If they are disconnected the bar shows its true and smaller structure (left)"
Hence, as the bar is disconnected from the spiral arm it is losing a section/segment of its size/arm and therefore it looks smaller.
In other words - as the Bar is in the direction of the spiral arm, a steam of stars are moving outwards from the bar (It looks longer) and it is connected to the spiral arm as they both are in a temporary one structure.

Hence, when the Bar arm is disconnected from the spiral arm, it loses some section of its size/arm and it appears smaller.
On the other hand, the spiral arm gets new section of stars and it appears longer at the disconnecting moment.
That proves that the bar function as a funnel that deliver stars from the Bulge into the spiral arm.
This is the most important observation of the spiral galaxy activity.

So, what do you expect me to do?
Should I believe to those scientists that wish to believe that stars in the bar migrates inwards from the spiral rings into the Bulge, or to those scientists that clearly observe that the Hercules stars steam migrates outwards from the Bar?
Why science can't be based on real observation and ONLY on real observation?
Do they see any sort of stars that migrates from the spiral arms into the bar?
As there is no observation for that inwards stars migration, while there are several observations for outwards migration, why those scientists claim that they wish to believe that stars in the bar migrates inwards from the spiral arms to the Bar?
Why they insist to confuse all of us?
How can you call something as "believe" to represent real science while it contradicts the observation?

[Alex Dullius Siqueira]

Therefore, my opinion is : The best, and i will finish briefly here, is to consider the "graviton" (or whatever it is) like some fluid that is occupying the area around the star.
The intensity of the fluid production is extremly strong, so the filling around the star is "like if" the "fluid balloon" extend around speed of light, but soon you go further, and because of the constant (proportional to mass) production of this fluid the "balloon" growing rate decrease.

 Horizon probe seems to have hit an outer wall of plasma as it was crossing the outer edge of our much bigger heliosphere, but the plasma was so oddly diffused that it was barely affected.
 What you suggesting would be related with these unexpected boundaries?

[Dave Lev (OP)]

Lets try to verify if the gravity force by itself can explain the activity/observation of the spiral galaxy
We already know that:

https://scitechdaily.com/galactic-bar-paradox-a-mysterious-and-long-standing-cosmic-conundrum-resolved-in-cosmic-dance/
"As the bar and spiral arm approach each other, their mutual attraction due to gravity makes the bar slow down and the spiral speed up."

This message proves that Gravity has key impact on the activity.
Based on this gravity, once the spiral arm and the bar are connected they move as one temporary structure.

https://scitechdaily.com/galactic-bar-paradox-a-mysterious-and-long-standing-cosmic-conundrum-resolved-in-cosmic-dance/
"Once connected, the two structures move as one and the bar appears much longer and slower than it actually is."

Therefore, the same gravity force that holds the two different arms into one longer temporary structure, might keep each structure/arm (the bar arm & the spiral arm) as a temporary structures.
Let's assume that the motion of each star is associated with all the other in the arm by mutual attraction due to gravity. Based on this assumption lets verify if we can set a fit with the observed orbital velocities of stars in the spiral galaxy without any need for dark matter.
In order to do so, please look at the following diagram:
http://pubs.sciepub.com/ijp/7/3/2/figure/4
The yellow line represents stars as they migrate outwards from the Bulge directly into the spiral arms.
We see that the Bar looks as a propeller of an airplane.
Let's assume that a star in a radius of 1KPC (R1) orbits at velocity V1 and try to verify the velocity of a star at different radius at this Bar (propeller)
It is clear that:
V = V1 (R / R1).
If R = R2 = 2KPC
V2 (at 2KPC) = 2 V1 (at 1KPC)
V3 (at 3KPC) = 3 V1
That linear increase in the calculated orbital velocity is fully correlated with the orbital velocity observations at the Bar section (Below 3KPC):

https://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/thompson.1847/1101/RotCurve2.gif
If you agree with that we can move on to the spiral arms.

[Bored chemist]

So, what do you expect me to do?

It's in the literature.
Go and look it up.

[Dave Lev (OP)]

It's in the literature.
Go and look it up.

Dear BC
We currently discuss about the activity/effect at the Bar.
The OBSERVATION Based on all the literature that had been offered so far proved that stars from the bulge migrates outwards by the Bar and are funneled directly to the spiral arms
The following diagram illustrates the Bar effect by the Yellow line:
http://pubs.sciepub.com/ijp/7/3/2/figure/4
I have already proved that by simple gravity force there is perfect fit between the calculated orbital velocity to the observation velocity (at the Bar segment)
Actually, we can even claim that the bar acts as some sort of a temporary rigid propeller
However, in this propeller, all the stars are drifted constantly outwards.
This forum is all about real science.
Real science must be based on observation.
Therefore, if you think that the Bar works differently, then please introduce the literature which can prove your understanding by real observation.

[Dave Lev (OP)]

I have found a breakthrough literature that fully supports my understanding:
http://pubs.sciepub.com/ijp/7/3/2/index.html#Figure4
"New Formulas and Mechanism for the Spiral Arm Formation of Galaxies"
It is stated:
"This model is the first attempt to think the spiral arm formation with the hydrogen originated from inside of the galactic center to outside. The proposed mechanism of the hydrogen production seems highly speculative, but the result of the simulations is very satisfactory, this indicates that the idea for the hydrogens originated from inside the bar is a promising approach, may lead us to re-think about the property of the black holes and hope to serve as a trigger to promote the future research in this direction."

It is stated clearly:
"This model is the first attempt to think the spiral arm formation with the hydrogen originated from inside of the galactic center to outside"
"this indicates that the idea for the hydrogens originated from inside the bar is a promising approach"
Wow
What a great literature!!!
Remember please - "from inside of the galactic center to outside"
I don't need to add even one more word.

[Bored chemist]

if you think that the Bar works differently,

I'm a chemist.
Why do you imagine I know or care how galaxies work?
However, I still know enough about science to point out that you frequently get stuff wrong.