The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. On the Lighter Side
  3. New Theories
  4. Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?

  • 48 Replies
  • 12884 Views
  • 1 Tags

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline pasala (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 333
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 18 times
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #20 on: 09/12/2022 05:25:17 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 04/12/2022 16:09:10
Quote from: pasala on 04/12/2022 15:15:58
As assumed by Descartes, there is no place for magnet,
I don't know what Descartes assumed, but there is a place for a magnet.
For example, there's one on my fridge.

Quote from: pasala on 04/12/2022 15:06:21
It he had so, science will be in different shape.
That's nonsense, all the experiments showed that the ether wasn't there.

Ok, all great scientists have started their career with ether only.  The only experiment that disproved ether is Michelson experiment.  However that experiment is true only when Earth and ether both makes their way in a single route / path.  Though Einstein did not, as per Lorentz the GR is based on Ether only.  It is new Ether.
Logged
 



Offline paul cotter

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 2319
  • Activity:
    31.5%
  • Thanked: 260 times
  • forum grump
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #21 on: 09/12/2022 10:58:32 »
Nonsense.
Logged
Did I really say that?
 

Offline DarkKnight

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 44
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #22 on: 09/12/2022 11:12:18 »
Quote from: pasala on 09/12/2022 05:25:17
Quote from: Bored chemist on 04/12/2022 16:09:10
Quote from: pasala on 04/12/2022 15:15:58
As assumed by Descartes, there is no place for magnet,
I don't know what Descartes assumed, but there is a place for a magnet.
For example, there's one on my fridge.

Quote from: pasala on 04/12/2022 15:06:21
It he had so, science will be in different shape.
That's nonsense, all the experiments showed that the ether wasn't there.

Ok, all great scientists have started their career with ether only.  The only experiment that disproved ether is Michelson experiment.  However that experiment is true only when Earth and ether both makes their way in a single route / path.  Though Einstein did not, as per Lorentz the GR is based on Ether only.  It is new Ether.

My opinion is that the experiment proved the existence of an ether rather than disproving it . It is a necessity for a medium for lights motion or the emptiness of space would conserve the energy , preventing the motion . There would be a wave-function collapse .


* ste.jpg (24.62 kB . 369x325 - viewed 2358 times)



Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: pasala

Offline pasala (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 333
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 18 times
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #23 on: 09/12/2022 11:43:08 »
Quote from: paul cotter on 09/12/2022 10:58:32
Nonsense.
Have you read this:
Isaac Newton suggests the existence of an aether in the Third Book of Opticks (1st ed. 1704; 2nd ed. 1718): "Doth not this aethereal medium in passing out of water, glass, crystal, and other compact and dense bodies in empty spaces, grow denser and denser by degrees, and by that means refract the rays of light not in a point, but by bending them gradually in curve lines? ...Is not this medium much rarer within the dense bodies of the Sun, stars, planets and comets, than in the empty celestial space between them? And in passing from them to great distances, doth it not grow denser and denser perpetually, and thereby cause the gravity of those great bodies towards one another, and of their parts towards the bodies; every body endeavouring to go from the denser parts of the medium towards the rarer?"[2]
Logged
 

Offline pasala (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 333
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 18 times
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #24 on: 09/12/2022 17:05:03 »
Thomas young’s double slit experiment is not new to us. Constructive interference occurs whenever the difference in paths from the two slits to a point on the screen equals, crests from the two waves arrive simultaneously together.

Whereas Destructive interference arises when two waves arrives together and a constructive interference, separated by dark regions of complete destructive interference.

If destructive interference arises, what happens to light waves, simply cancelled out, resulting in dark region. 

So, it clearly tells us that light is equal to momentum.  It is the momentum of particles i.e., electrons.  Very momentum of electrons in space or ether gives wave like properties.  Due to conservation of momentum at one place or the other, wave is cancelled out. 

Suppose if we switch on an torch cell, if battery is new one, electrons moves out  with much more pressure / force, so also light spreads to wide area.  As the battery weakens, momentum of particles weakens, thereby weakening light.

It is true that energy is neither created nor destroyed.  We are drawing electrons from the ether and again leaving them into space or ether.
Logged
 



Offline Kryptid

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 8082
  • Activity:
    1.5%
  • Thanked: 514 times
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #25 on: 10/12/2022 17:32:06 »
Quote from: pasala on 09/12/2022 17:05:03
We are drawing electrons from the ether and again leaving them into space or ether.

The electrons come from the battery itself. The total number of electrons in the circuit doesn't change, so there is no need to invoke electrons coming from or to some kind of aether. It is the energy of those electrons that allow the light to work, but the electrons are not used up or destroyed in the process.
Logged
 

Offline pasala (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 333
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 18 times
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #26 on: 11/12/2022 13:27:22 »
Is light particle or wave or duality:

Waves are oscillations, and they transport energy from one place to another. Thomas Young double slit experiment tells us that light is a wave. When two waves move together, it  is constructive interference.  If the two waves faces each other, it is destructive interference.  In such case both the waves are cancelled out.  In recent experiments, it is showing dots or particles on the screen.
   
Photoelectric effect is the emission of electrons by a metal surface when it is irradiated by light or more energetic photons. The kinetic energy of the emitted electrons depends on the frequency ν of the radiation, not on its intensity.  for a given metal, there is a threshold frequency ν0 below which no electrons are emitted. Furthermore, emission takes place as soon as the light shines on the surface, there is no detectable delay.

Einstein showed that these results can be explained by two assumptions:
(1) that light is composed of corpuscles or photons, the energy of which is given by Planck’s relationship
(2) that an atom in the metal can absorb either a whole photon or nothing. Part of the energy of the absorbed photon frees an electron,

In the case of Electric light, there are two parts:
01  We are giving electrons as input
02  In turn it gives us Light wave or Electro magnetic radiation.

For several years, for me it is a big doubt, can’t we reproduce electrons from the light wave.  From the Photo electric effect, it is clear that light consists of corpuscles only.  However I could not accomplish it, due to different job and work pressure.

Recently I came know that some of the students from an IIT in India succeeded in re-producing electricity from light wave.  That’s great work indeed.

For that Solar energy also works on the basis of Photo electric effect only

New Aether:
Space, in Descartes' view, is a plenum occupied by an ether, which, imperceptible to the senses, is capable of transmitting forces on material bodies immersed in it. Descartes assumed that the ether particles are in constant motion, but, as there is no empty space for them to move to, he inferred that they move to places vacated by other ether particles.

When you switch on a electric bulb, space is not empty, electrons moving out into the space faces other particles.  In other words they charges them.  Particles in the space also gains momentum, known as light wave.

At present  we are of the opinion that space is empty.  While producing solar energy, we are searching for the electrons that are ejected when light falls on a mettalic plate. 

The magnetic field is the area around a magnet in which the effect of magnetism is felt. We use the magnetic field as a tool to describe how the magnetic force is distributed in the space around and within something magnetic in nature

Think of it, how a magnet gets a field.  As said by Descartes it is due to Aether only.  In the case of solar energy, particles coming out from Sun are charging the particles in the aether and causing them to move.  As long as there is momentum of particles, it is visible light. 

Let us forget about photo electric effect, think of how to catch those moving particles.  If we succeed, our energy problems will be solved, permanently.

In the case of electric bulb:
Input     =   60 wats
If output   =   Equal to or less than 60 wats, then there is no Aether.  If output exceeds 60 wats, it tells us that there is aether.

I think this is Acid test for new aether.
Logged
 

Offline Kryptid

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 8082
  • Activity:
    1.5%
  • Thanked: 514 times
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #27 on: 11/12/2022 13:45:57 »
You can't get more energy out than you put in. That would violate conservation of energy.
Logged
 

Offline paul cotter

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 2319
  • Activity:
    31.5%
  • Thanked: 260 times
  • forum grump
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #28 on: 11/12/2022 16:10:48 »
There is a special type of "magnet" in the new theories subforum. It attracts nonsense.
Logged
Did I really say that?
 



Offline pasala (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 333
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 18 times
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #29 on: 18/12/2022 12:01:45 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 11/12/2022 13:45:57
You can't get more energy out than you put in. That would violate conservation of energy.
That is true when space time is empty or void or nothing.  As per the new aether proposed by me, space is not empty.  As per GR mass curves or distort space time around it.  Unless there is something in the space, how mass distort it.

In a light bulb, electrons are having momentum, they passes on the same to the particles in the open space and makes them to move.  See the double slit experiment, when two waves go together it becomes constructive interference, in case if they faces each  other it is destructive and wave end there itself. 

Electrons moving out into the space, causes their counter parts to move and in turn it results in wave.  See the difference, conservation of energy starts here. 

Each ray is a big hope, let us plan how to catch it.
Logged
 

Offline Kryptid

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 8082
  • Activity:
    1.5%
  • Thanked: 514 times
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #30 on: 18/12/2022 14:18:43 »
Quote from: pasala on 18/12/2022 12:01:45
Unless there is something in the space, how mass distort it.

Space-time itself is what is being distorted. There is no need to complicate it by adding in something else that isn't necessary.
Logged
 

Offline pasala (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 333
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 18 times
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #31 on: 24/12/2022 05:09:10 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 11/12/2022 13:45:57
You can't get more energy out than you put in. That would violate conservation of energy.
Ok, kryptid then what about step-up transformer.  How it works.  Whey conservation of energy is not working here.
Logged
 

Offline The Spoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 793
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 18 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #32 on: 24/12/2022 08:57:50 »
Quote from: pasala on 24/12/2022 05:09:10
Quote from: Kryptid on 11/12/2022 13:45:57
You can't get more energy out than you put in. That would violate conservation of energy.
Ok, kryptid then what about step-up transformer.  How it works.  Whey conservation of energy is not working here.
What? You mean a device that steps up voltage but which reduces current? Maybe learn some science before posting some ridiculous 'gotcha'.
Logged
 



Offline Origin

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 2248
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 210 times
  • Nothing of importance
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #33 on: 24/12/2022 16:45:14 »
Quote from: pasala on 24/12/2022 05:09:10
Ok, kryptid then what about step-up transformer.  How it works.  Whey conservation of energy is not working here.
Yikes, you really need to learn the basics of physics before trying to come up with new theories.
Logged
 

Offline Kryptid

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 8082
  • Activity:
    1.5%
  • Thanked: 514 times
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #34 on: 24/12/2022 22:49:53 »
Quote from: pasala on 24/12/2022 05:09:10
Quote from: Kryptid on 11/12/2022 13:45:57
You can't get more energy out than you put in. That would violate conservation of energy.
Ok, kryptid then what about step-up transformer.  How it works.  Whey conservation of energy is not working here.

Transformers don't violate conservation of energy.
Logged
 

Offline aasimz

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 86
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 4 times
    • Twitter Page
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #35 on: 24/12/2022 23:21:01 »
Quote from: pasala on 27/11/2022 05:00:40
in my view, ether was buried alive.

Well, too bad, because it doesn't seem like it will ever be resurrected.

Quote from: pasala on 04/12/2022 05:29:54
What this space fabric is. 

If you are interested in modern theory insights on Einstein's space fabric structure you have "Loop Quantum Gravity (LQG)" to look into.

So, you don't need æther since people have moved on with more than one innovative approach on that matter.

Quote
As a theory LQG postulates that the structure of space and time is composed of finite loops woven into an extremely fine fabric or network. These networks of loops are called spin networks. The evolution of a spin network, or spin foam, has a scale above the order of a Planck length, approximately 10−35 meters, and smaller scales are meaningless. Consequently, not just matter, but space itself, prefers an atomic structure.

Wikipedia | Loop Quantum Gravity
« Last Edit: 25/12/2022 02:17:57 by aasimz »
Logged
 

Offline pasala (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 333
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 18 times
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #36 on: 25/12/2022 03:10:21 »
Quote from: The Spoon on 24/12/2022 08:57:50
Quote from: pasala on 24/12/2022 05:09:10
Quote from: Kryptid on 11/12/2022 13:45:57
You can't get more energy out than you put in. That would violate conservation of energy.
Ok, kryptid then what about step-up transformer.  How it works.  Whey conservation of energy is not working here.
What? You mean a device that steps up voltage but which reduces current? Maybe learn some science before posting some ridiculous 'gotcha'.
See, I am talking  in  new aether perspective.  It is all about input that is being given and output that we get.  It is beyond dignity using such words, shameful on your part as well.
Logged
 



Offline pasala (OP)

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 333
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 18 times
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #37 on: 25/12/2022 06:57:13 »
NEW AETHER AND ELECTRICITY:

Faraday is one of the prominent physicists who considered aether as the propagating medium for electromagnetic force.

He introduced the concept of "lines of force" to demonstrate how electric and magnetic forces are transmitted between particles in an ambient medium, and to represent the disposition of these forces in space. 

Thomson elaborated Faraday EMF field as a vortices in the aether.  He also viewed the aether as a plenum in which forces acted in an ethereal continuum.  Maxwell translated Thomson’s vortices into a mechanical model that depict action  of the field in transmitting forces by the action of the particles in the aether.

MAXWELL While continuing to emphasize that electromagnetic phenomena were produced by the motions of particles in a mechanical aether, he used methods of Lagrangian analytical dynamics to represent the electromagnetic field instead.

This is to tell you how EMF is related to Aether and I don’t want to elaborate it or go deep into the subject.

ABOUT MAGNETIC FIELD:
Magnetic fields may be represented by continuous lines of force or magnetic flux that emerge from north-seeking magnetic poles and enter south-seeking magnetic poles. The density of the lines indicates the magnitude of the magnetic field. At the poles of a magnet, for example, where the magnetic field is strong, the field lines are crowded together, or more dense. Farther away, where the magnetic field is weak, they fan out, becoming less dense. A uniform magnetic field is represented by equally spaced parallel straight lines. The direction of the flux is the direction in which the north-seeking pole of a small magnet points. The lines of flux are continuous, forming closed loops.

HOW MAGNETIC FIELD IS USED TO GENERATE ELECTRICITY:
These generators are made up of coils of wire that are either rotated through magnetic fields or are stationary around a shaft with rotating magnets. In either case, the coils of wire are exposed to changing magnetic fields created by the magnets.

The magnets can be permanent or electric magnets. Permanent magnets are mainly used in small generators, and they have the advantage that they don't need a power supply. Electric magnets are iron or steel wound with wire. When electricity passes through the wire, the metal becomes magnetic and creates a magnetic field.

The coils of wire of the generators are conductors, and when the electrons in the wires are exposed to changing magnetic fields, they move, creating an electric current in the wires.

SOLAR ENERGY:
Sunlight is composed of photons or particles of solar energy. These photons contain varying amounts of energy that correspond to the different wavelengths of the solar spectrum.

A PV cell is made of semiconductor material. When photons strike a PV cell, they may reflect off the cell, pass through the cell or be absorbed by the semiconductor material. Only the absorbed photons provide energy to generate electricity. When the semiconductor material absorbs enough sunlight, electrons are dislodged from the material's atoms.

This  design is based on the photo electric effect of Einstein.

Before going to the new Idea:
Around a permanent magnet or a wire carrying a steady electric current in one direction, the magnetic field is stationary and referred to as a magnetostatic field. At any given point its magnitude and direction remain the same. Around an alternating current or a fluctuating direct current, the magnetic field is continuously changing its magnitude and direction.

I would like to propose few changes to this based on new aether:
01  Let us imagine that in an electrical generator, you have placed alternator.  Ok, both the magnets and alternator are  at rest or stationary.  Basic question is can we produce electricity. 
02  It is true that magnetic field and alternator is within this field only.
03  It is only when the magnets or alternator is rotated, it cuts the magnetic field and generates electricity.

So in the case of Solar energy:
01  Design the panel in the shape of an umbrella in reverse shape.
02  Now to cut the Electromagnetic radiation we must rotate the conductor. 
03  Present design is based on the Photo electric effect theory. 
04  Change the design so as to suit the present thinking.
05  When photons strikes semi-conductor, most of which is reflected back and only small quantity is absorbed and an electron is  released.
06  Instead, if the conductor is rotated, most of the particles are collected at the end, at zero percent waste.

The above holds good for production of electricity using EM radiation of an electric bulb.
Logged
 

Offline Origin

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 2248
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 210 times
  • Nothing of importance
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #38 on: 25/12/2022 13:49:27 »
Quote from: pasala on 25/12/2022 06:57:13
HOW MAGNETIC FIELD IS USED TO GENERATE ELECTRICITY:
These generators are made up of coils of wire that are either rotated through magnetic fields or are stationary around a shaft with rotating magnets. In either case, the coils of wire are exposed to changing magnetic fields created by the magnets.

The magnets can be permanent or electric magnets. Permanent magnets are mainly used in small generators, and they have the advantage that they don't need a power supply. Electric magnets are iron or steel wound with wire. When electricity passes through the wire, the metal becomes magnetic and creates a magnetic field.

Stop plagiarizing, I'm sure that is against the rules!
From the site:  https://ng.opera.news/ng/en/technology/60f0305c4c5ce830d0805ebd2458b19a
"These generators are made up of coils of wire that are either rotated through magnetic fields or are stationary around a shaft with rotating magnets. In either case, the coils of wire are exposed to changing magnetic fields created by the magnets.

The magnets can be permanent or electric magnets. Permanent magnets are mainly used in small generators, and they have the advantage that they don't need a power supply. Electric magnets are iron or steel wound with wire. When electricity passes through the wire, the metal becomes magnetic and creates a magnetic field."
Logged
 

Offline JimmyW9

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 11
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Does GR laid the foundation for new ether?
« Reply #39 on: 28/12/2022 19:54:12 »
Perhaps you just need to refer to some sources to support your claims.
Logged
 



  • Print
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags: aether 
 
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.336 seconds with 72 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.