[Dave Lev (OP)]

Jupiter hosts the most powerful magnetic field of all the planets in our solar system, cranking out a field close to 20,000 times stronger than Earth's."
So, how that magnetic fields is created?
https://www.space.com/41751-jupiter-weird-magnetic-field-even-weirder.html
Jupiter's Weird Magnetic Field Gets Even Weirder
In the article it is stated:
" Jupiter's magnetic field is likely generated by a swirling mass of hydrogen deep within the planet. Crushed to incredible pressure, this material becomes a metallic liquid that can conduct electricity and generate a magnetic field when stirred."
However, that description can't explain the following observation of "another big magnetic "south pole" close to the equator"
"We find that Jupiter's magnetic field is different from all other known planetary magnetic fields," the authors, led by Kimberly Moore of Harvard University, wrote in the paper. Like Earth, Jupiter's magnetic field has a primary north and south pole, close to the planet's actual poles as it rotates. But while the gas giant's south pole is relatively orderly, the planet's north pole has one narrow magnetic hotspot amid more chaotic patches of magnetic field, where positive and negative sections don't have concrete counterparts. And the planet has another big magnetic "south pole" close to the equator the researchers refer to this equatorial patch as a "great blue spot" in their paper, in contrast to the planet's swirling Great Red Spot storm."
The energy source for that activity is:
"The heat within the planet, left over from Jupiter's formation early in the solar system's history, creates convection currents that get the liquid moving ? not to mention the gases on top, leading to the planet's roiling clouds and storms."

Please advise if you agree with the following explanation:

1. We can't hope that some random activities as "swirling mass of hydrogen deep within the planet" would be good enough to establish so strong magnetic fields at Jupiter and at the same time also creates the second big magnetic "south pole".
2. We also can't just hope that the energy from Jupiter's formation early in the solar system's history would keep so strong magnetic fields for several billion years and still maintain its relatively fast rotation velocity - Jupiter sets full rotation cycle in just about 9 hours.
Somehow, real energy source is needed to create and maintain those magnetic fields and the relatively fast rotation velocity of Jupiter

Therefore, the second "south pole" means that there are at least two magnetic dipoles in that planet and each dipole is created by a different rotating dynamo.
Jupiter has about 145 moons. However, the Galilean moons that are the four largest moons of Jupiter: Io, Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto orbit around the Jupiter' equator with inclination of less than 0.5.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilean_moons
Therefore, the main dynamo dipole is created by the tidal gravitational force of those Galilean moons.
Each one of those moons should set two tidal bulges (front & back).
However, as those moons orbit at different velocities and different orbital radius, we get the shape of an oblate spheroid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_radius
"The planet Jupiter has the approximate shape of an oblate spheroid, which is mainly set by the rate of rotation. This gives a difference of about 10% between the polar and equatorial radii."
Hence, the combined moons tidal bulges increase the equatorial radii by 10% over the polar radii.
This is the image of the vertical & horizontal tidal forces:

It is very clear that the Horizontal tidal force is the main source for the Bulge (or oblate spheroid)..
However, somehow, we ignore the great impact of the vertical tidal force.
This vertical tidal force works from pole to pole and transform the hot liquid matter in the core into solid dynamo.
That dynamo would have to spin at higher speed relative to the hot liquid environments around it.
By doing so, it would generate the main magnetic fields of the planet and force the whole planet to maintain its rotation velocity even billions of years after its creation.
Therefore, the main strong magnetic field is created by the tidal force of those four moons in the Galilean group.
However, there are many other moons around Jupiter.
They are all relatively small and divided by several groups at several inclination from 27 to about 160.
Due to the inclination, those moons can create other magnetic dynamos and at least one of those dynamos is responsible for the second "south pole".

[Bored chemist]

We can't hope that some random activities

They wouldn't be random.

Real energy source is needed to creates those magnetic fields.

Only once.

It doesn't take a continuous input of power to maintain a magnetic field.
Just look at a magnet.

Therefore, the main dynamo dipole is created by the tidal gravitational force of those Galilean moons.

No
That's not a "therefore" thing at all.
You seem to have made it up

Do you have actual evidence for it?

The planet Jupiter has the approximate shape of an oblate spheroid, which is mainly set by the rate of rotation. This gives a difference of about 10% between the polar and equatorial radii."
Hence, the combined moons tidal bulges increase the equatorial radii by 10% over the polar radii.

No

Try reading.
It says "shape of an oblate spheroid, which is mainly set by the rate of rotation."
It's the rate of rotation which sets the oblateness.

Not the moons.


Why do you post obvious nonsense like that?

It is very clear that the vertical force is the main source for the Bulge (or oblate spheroid)..

No
It is clear that the bulge (like that of the earth) is due to rotation.

[Dave Lev (OP)]

How can you explain the big magnetic "south pole" close to the equator?

[Bored chemist]

How can you explain the big magnetic "south pole" close to the equator?

I don't need to explain it.
I can just read the explanation that the researchers gave.

"The strong concentration of magnetic flux in the northern hemisphere flux band and in the Great Blue Spot implies the existence of large horizontal magnetic field gradients at the borders of these features, which would suggest that strong secular (temporal) variation of the magnetic field is likely".

Here
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0468-5.epdf

Did you read the original paper?

Anyway, the one thing we can be sure of is that it's not got much to do with the moons.
It can't have, can it?- because they keep moving.

[Kryptid]

2. We also can't just hope that the energy from Jupiter's formation early in the solar system's history would keep so strong magnetic fields for several billion years and still maintain its relatively fast rotation velocity - Jupiter sets full rotation cycle in just about 9 hours.
Somehow, real energy source is needed to create and maintain those magnetic fields and the relatively fast rotation velocity of Jupiter

Provide a reputable source to back up those claims. You have three tries.

[evan_au]

Re "there are at least two magnetic dipoles": The correct term is "quadrupole". 2, 4, 6, 8 or more poles are also possible.

Re "1. random activities as swirling mass of hydrogen deep within the planet": Chaotic motion of conducting fluids has been observed in the lab to create a magnetic field, which also has chaotic characteristics (including periods of oscillation).
https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.98.044502

The Earth's magnetic field is currently mainly a dipole, but during magnetic field reversals, it may pass through a quadrupole (or higher-order) phase.

Hydrogen's position on the periodic table places it near the metallic elements. There have been multiple experiments showing that hydrogen becomes metallic at very high pressures (such as occur in the centre of Jupiter).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_hydrogen#Experimental_pursuit

[Dave Lev (OP)]

2. We also can't just hope that the energy from Jupiter's formation early in the solar system's history would keep so strong magnetic fields for several billion years and still maintain its relatively fast rotation velocity - Jupiter sets full rotation cycle in just about 9 hours.
Somehow, real energy source is needed to create and maintain those magnetic fields and the relatively fast rotation velocity of Jupiter

Provide a reputable source to back up those claims. You have three tries.

One is enough!
1. Jupiter sets full rotation cycle in just about 9 hours.:
https://web.njit.edu/~gary/320/Lecture17.html
"Jupiter's axis is tilted only 1.3o out of the ecliptic, and it has the fastest rotation rate of all of the planets, at 9h 50m"

2. "real energy source is needed to create and maintain those magnetic fields and the relatively fast rotation velocity of Jupiter"
In the article it is stated:
https://www.space.com/41751-jupiter-weird-magnetic-field-even-weirder.html
"magnetic field is likely generated by a swirling mass of hydrogen deep within the planet. Crushed to incredible pressure, this material becomes a metallic liquid that can conduct electricity and generate a magnetic field when stirred. "
However, the pressure is exceeding 4 million bars:
https://web.njit.edu/~gary/320/Lecture17.html
"The next layer out from the core is liquid metallic hydrogen. This exotic form of hydrogen can only exist at pressures exceeding 4 million bars."
"At the temperature and pressure of Jupiter's interior hydrogen is a liquid, not a gas."
"This metallic layer is the source of Jupiter's strong magnetic field".

Do you have an idea what is the energy that is needed to move Hydrogen atom under a pressure of 4 million bars just by one mm?
Don't you agree that some energy is needed for that activity?
Therefore, how can we believe that the mass of hydrogen deep within Jupiter under pressure 4 million bars are swirling without energy lost?
There are more:
In the article it is also stated:
https://web.njit.edu/~gary/320/Lecture17.html
"We expect Jupiter to have a surface temperature of about T0 = 103 K, but it really has a temperature of T = 130 K, so the excess energy per second is 6 x 10^17 W.
Therefore, they assume the following:
"Thus, it does not require much contraction at all to release the observed amount of energy.  Still, over a billion years Jupiter would have to contract by 400 km, which seems like a lot.  It may be that the truth is some combination of contraction and left-over heat."

But they have a severe mistake as Jupiter upper atmosphere is "Hot Hot Hot"
https://www.universetoday.com/157817/jupiters-atmosphere-is-surprisingly-hot/
"recent measurements show the upper atmosphere is over 400 degrees Celsius, and in the polar regions as much as 700 degrees Celsius. . In the words of Ruby Rhod from the movie The Fifth Element, ?It?s Hot Hot Hot!?
It is clearly stated that this heat is due to Jupiter EM energy:
"This was a long-standing mystery until we finally figured out that solar flares and realignments of the Sun?s magnetic field were heating the corona. It turns out electromagnetism can hold a lot of energy.
Since Jupiter has such a warm upper atmosphere, this could help explain long-lasting weather patterns in its cloud region."
Conclusion:
If you still believe that the mass of hydrogen deep within Jupiter under pressure of 4 million bars are swirling without energy lost and the 700 c temp at the poles is there without EM energy lost, while the EM is there for free -
Then I do not wish to continue the discussion in this thread.
Thank you all.

[Kryptid]

Do you have an idea what is the energy that is needed to move Hydrogen atom under a pressure of 4 million bars just by one mm?

An arbitrarily small amount. The molecules in a liquid move on their own due to thermal energy. A molecule in liquid hydrogen will move a millimeter on its own if you wait long enough. The hotter it is, the sooner it will move a millimeter because it's moving faster.

Don't you agree that some energy is needed for that activity?

Yes, and whatever thermal energy is available to keep it a liquid instead of a solid is enough.

Therefore, how can we believe that the mass of hydrogen deep within Jupiter under pressure 4 million bars are swirling without energy lost?

Who said they weren't? Any object with a temperature above absolute zero will radiate, therefore losing energy over time. What you have not demonstrated is that this energy loss has been sufficiently high over Jupiter's life span to require some kind of external power source to make up for it.

But they have a severe mistake as Jupiter upper atmosphere is "Hot Hot Hot"

That's not a "severe mistake". The temperature of Jupiter's atmosphere differs at different altitudes. Both sources are correct.

If you still believe that the mass of hydrogen deep within Jupiter under pressure of 4 million bars are swirling without energy lost and the 700 c temp at the poles is there without EM energy lost, while the EM is there for free -

Again, there is energy loss. But none of the sources you have provided demonstrate that Jupiter's internal energy is insufficient to explain the magnetic fields. So that's strike one.

[Origin]

Poor Dave is once again tilting at windmills.
Dave's mission, it seems, is to disprove cosmology but I don't think he quite realizes just how high that bar is.  He has repeated failed so far and he is destined to continue to fail in this quest of his.

[Dave Lev (OP)]

The molecules in a liquid move on their own due to thermal energy. A molecule in liquid hydrogen will move a millimeter on its own if you wait long enough.

Liquid hydrogen that move on its own, won't generate any Electromagnetic fields.

Yes, and whatever thermal energy is available to keep it a liquid instead of a solid is enough.

Sorry, this is incorrect.
In order to generate EM fields in a planet, there is a need for a solid core:
https://sciencing.com/what-average-temperature-jupiter-4569765.html
Jupiter has a solid core about the size of Earth...
That solid core is made out of metallic Hydrogen due to the extreme pressure at the core:
https://edu.rsc.org/soundbite/hydrogen-falls-apart-under-pressure/2000532.article
"Solid hydrogen was first predicted around 80 years ago. The theory goes that if you put hydrogen molecules under enough pressure they will solidify. During this process the hydrogen - hydrogen bonds will break and the molecules will fall apart into hydrogen atoms. It is believed the electrons in this solid will flow freely; meaning atomic hydrogen should behave like a metal and conduct electricity."
Therefore, it is not just about a liquid hydrogen but about solid metallic hydrogen core (while the electrons in this solid will flow freely - That is a vital request as we will see shortly).

But none of the sources you have provided demonstrate that Jupiter's internal energy is insufficient to explain the magnetic fields

I hope that they following explanation would be good enough for you:

Our scientists know that the solid core is a key element in any real dynamo.
In the following image, the solid core is a rotating disc, while the body of the planet around it is called the horseshoe magnet:


The explanation is as follow:
https://www.cora.nwra.com/~werne/eos/text/dynamo.html
"When you start to rotate the disk electrons start to move from the center of the disk to the edge of the disk and you obtain an electrical current. The flow of electrons is possible because in metals (not unlike in a plasma) electrons are not bound to the atoms and can move around freely. This way of generating electric currents is based on a physical principal called electromagnetic induction. This principle states that if a conductor (here the rotating disc) moves through a magnetic field (here provided by the horseshoe magnet) a electric current is obtained. The law of electromagnetic induction is often referred to as Faraday's law.
However, there exists another physical principal, which says that moving electrons, i.e. electrical currents, generate magnetic fields. Physicists call this Ampere's law after the French physicist Andre Marie Ampere (1775-1836). Therefore, the above disk dynamo, does not only generate electric currents but also some magnetic field. As we can see electric currents and magnetic fields are very closely related. Simply speaking we can say that electric currents generate magnetic fields and vice versa that magnetic fields generate electrical currents."

They specifically discuss about the flow of electrons that are not bound to the atoms and can move around freely as had been explained in the metallic Hydrogen!
Please be aware that there is a significant difference between hydrogen plasma to metallic hydrogen.

In any case, in order for the dynamo to work, the solid metal core must rotate / spin with reference to the Horseshoe body of the planet.
However, based on the current understanding, there is no need for any external energy/force to spin that solid core.
It is believed that the spin of the planet itself is good enough.
Sorry, this is a sever mistake.
Let's assume that we have a small model of that horseshoe + its free spin disc.
We will set this model on a platform and start to spin it.
Don't you agree that after just few spin cycles, the disc would spin exactly at the same spin motion as the platform?
In other words, the horseshoe and its disc would spin exactly at the same motion.
So, the disc woun't spin with reference to the horseshoe and it won't generate any EM filed.
In the same token.
Even if Jupiter planet starts to spins at high velocity, after relatively short time, its solid metallic core would spin exactly at the same spin motion as the whole planet.
In this case, it won't generate any sort of electro-magnetic fields.
Therefore, if we wish to gain the EM, an external force must spin that solid metallic Hydrogen core faster than the planet spinning motion.
The only force in the nature that can do it is the Vertical tidal force.
If you still disagree, then sorry, I can't help any more.

[paul cotter]

Where exactly is the "horseshoe magnet" in Jupiter? It has been demonstrated that a sphere of molten sodium spinning can produce a magnetic field, without any solid core.

[Origin]

Our scientists know that the solid core is a key element in any real dynamo.
In the following image, the solid core is a rotating disc, while the body of the planet around it is called the horseshoe magnet:

I don't know who these scientists are that your family apparently owns, but the rest of the scientific community disagrees with them.  The sun certainly doesn't have a solid core.

[Kryptid]

Dave, we have already been through the whole "solid core" with magnets in your previous thread about the Sun. I gave you three chances to back up your claim with a reputable source three times and you failed. That got the thread locked. Since you are bringing up incorrect material from a locked thread, that means you are circumventing a thread lock. That means it's time to lock this thread as well. Since you have a track record of pushing incorrect notions about tidal forces and magnetic fields, let's add those to the list of forbidden topics (along with the quasars, black holes and Theory D).