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  1. Naked Science Forum
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  4. Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
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Has E=mc2 been proved practically?

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Offline Janus

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #40 on: 09/12/2023 17:18:52 »
Quote from: acsinuk on 09/12/2023 00:48:13
AC electricity moves at the speed of E/M light and is massless just like photons. So 50/60 cycle per second domestic electricity could  just be very low frequency E/M light. 
Further problem is particles cannot accelerate to light speed without a huge amount of energy being pumped in.
So we need to rethink how we visualise electricity and the parameters surrounding photons inside a conductor.
No, it doesn't.  The drift velocity of the electrons is really quite low, and even the effective speed ( like the time it takes between flipping a switch and the light coming on) can be as slow as 2/3c, depending on the conductor. 
Quite frankly, it sound like your objections to the present model for the conduction of electricity is based on a lack of knowledge of what the present model actually is.
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Offline acsinuk

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #41 on: 11/12/2023 21:11:05 »
Possibly, so what is the current model look like now that we understand that electron particles cannot move at nearly the speed of light.?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #42 on: 11/12/2023 22:12:13 »
Quote from: acsinuk on 11/12/2023 21:11:05
Possibly, so what is the current model look like now that we understand that electron particles cannot move at nearly the speed of light.?
Electron drift velocities in conductors are less than a snail's pace.
That's not a figure of speech here.
For a reasonable copper conductor you can calculate it as 23 micrometers per second.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drift_velocity#Numerical_example

And this knowledge is not new.
Any interested physicist  could have calculated that any time since Millikan measured the electron charge.
And, of course, they did.

So "The current model" already knew what the drift velocity was before it was fully drafted.

The only one who recently realise how slow electrons are is you.
Let us know when you catch up.
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Offline acsinuk

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #43 on: 15/12/2023 03:54:36 »
Yes, AC electric current is not a flow of electrons but could it possibly be a flow of spinning magnetic charge?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #44 on: 15/12/2023 10:08:26 »
Quote from: acsinuk on 15/12/2023 03:54:36
Yes, AC electric current is not a flow of electrons but could it possibly be a flow of spinning magnetic charge?
In the sense that I can't prove it isn't a flow of leprechauns, yes, it could be.

But there's no reason to think that it is.
And a magnetic charge (equivalent to an electric charge) is impossible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_monopole

So the leprechauns are technically more probable.

Why do you persist with your failed idea?
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Offline Petrochemicals (OP)

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #45 on: 15/12/2023 12:34:09 »
But how fast do electrons travel (or positrons) during radioactive decay modes?
« Last Edit: 15/12/2023 18:52:45 by Petrochemicals »
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Offline Origin

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #46 on: 15/12/2023 13:08:29 »
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 15/12/2023 12:34:09
But how fast fo electrons travel (or positrons) during radioactive decay modes?
Very fast, a large percent of the speed of light.  Beta particles (electrons) from Uranium 235 fission can actually move faster than light through water.

Edit:  The beta radiation is actually from the decay of the fission products not from the fission reaction itself.
« Last Edit: 17/12/2023 14:29:56 by Origin »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #47 on: 15/12/2023 15:42:00 »
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 15/12/2023 12:34:09
But how fast fo electrons travel (or positrons) during radioactive decay modes?
Very fast.

So what?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #48 on: 15/12/2023 16:28:58 »
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 15/12/2023 12:34:09
But how fast fo electrons travel (or positrons) during radioactive decay modes?
Depends on their energy. Knowing the rest mass and kinetic energy of a particle you can apply a relativistic formula to deduce its speed.
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Offline acsinuk

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #49 on: 17/12/2023 00:21:28 »
Just glanced at magnetic monopoles Wiki edition and noted the 5,000 word diatribe article has no conclusion as to how massless electro-magnetic energy EM can exist .
The confusion is caused because the equations do not acknowledge that EM energy is a 3 dimensional volume of forces and identify which direction the electric and magnetic spinning flux/current forces are acting.
Power plant engineers know we can produce quantum power called VAR's and that an AC generator needs to have a voltage force field at right angles to the rotating flux current force field or a Cosine reduction will occur..
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #50 on: 17/12/2023 09:10:59 »
Quote from: acsinuk on 17/12/2023 00:21:28
Just glanced at magnetic monopoles Wiki edition and noted the 5,000 word diatribe article has no conclusion as to how massless electro-magnetic energy EM can exist .
Hardly surprising as it has nothing to do with magnetic monopoles. It probably didn't tell you how sharks detect blood, or why the moon isn't made of cheese, either.
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Offline paul cotter

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #51 on: 17/12/2023 13:35:07 »
Vars are not "quantum power". That is a nonsense statement.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #52 on: 17/12/2023 14:09:04 »
Quote from: acsinuk on 17/12/2023 00:21:28
EM energy is a 3 dimensional volume of forces

Energy is not a force.

Again, keep this kind of speculation in New Theories. This is your second warning.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #53 on: 17/12/2023 16:25:57 »
Quote from: acsinuk on 17/12/2023 00:21:28
The confusion is caused because the equations do not acknowledge that EM energy is a 3 dimensional volume of forces
On the contrary; the confusion is caused by imagining that "EM energy is a 3 dimensional volume of forces ".

You are the only one who is confused.
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Offline Zer0

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #54 on: 18/12/2023 17:06:30 »
@Stevens

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy
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Offline acsinuk

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #55 on: 20/12/2023 04:02:58 »
From Wiki quote
Electric   potential energy due to or stored in electric fields
Magnetic   potential energy due to or stored in magnetic fields
Gravitational   potential energy due to or stored in gravitational fields
Have you ever seen a field that is just a single dimension or scalar like most of our constants are? 
What is needed is to know which direction the forces are acting in the field as it is not acceptable to say current is at right angles to flux which is at right angles to magnetic flux we must identify which direction x,y or z the forces are acting.
Same as matter, mass in kg must occupy a volume it cannot just be an area with no depth otherwise you cannot heat it
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #56 on: 20/12/2023 09:08:38 »
I think I can write on behalf of scientists in general, that we have no idea what you are talking about.

The question that a doctor would ask is: what do you think you are talking about?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #57 on: 20/12/2023 10:10:05 »
Quote from: acsinuk on 20/12/2023 04:02:58
From Wiki quote
Electric   potential energy due to or stored in electric fields
Magnetic   potential energy due to or stored in magnetic fields
Gravitational   potential energy due to or stored in gravitational fields
That's not really a quote, is it?


Quote from: acsinuk on 20/12/2023 04:02:58
Have you ever seen a field that is just a single dimension or scalar like most of our constants are? 
No, by definition of "field" in this context.

"What is needed is to know which direction the forces are acting in the field as it is not acceptable to say current is at right angles to flux which is at right angles to magnetic flux we must identify which direction x,y or z the forces are acting."
Does not parse.


Quote from: acsinuk on 20/12/2023 04:02:58
Same as matter, mass in kg must occupy a volume it cannot just be an area with no depth otherwise you cannot heat it
Ditto.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Has E=mc2 been proved practically?
« Reply #58 on: 20/12/2023 15:27:23 »
Quote from: acsinuk on 20/12/2023 04:02:58
Have you ever seen a field that is just a single dimension or scalar like most of our constants are? 

The Higgs field.
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