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  1. Naked Science Forum
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  4. Can we improve the standard units of rotational quantities?

Poll

Can we improve the standard units of rotational quantities?

No. They are already perfect. Any change will only make them worse.
4 (80%)
No. They have some known problems, but there is no possible solution.
0 (0%)
Yes. They have some known problems, and there are some possible solutions.
0 (0%)
Yes. They have some known problems, and one solution can solve them all.
1 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 5

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Can we improve the standard units of rotational quantities?

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #420 on: 02/03/2025 12:25:37 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 01/03/2025 13:14:55
Quote from: Bored chemist on 01/03/2025 12:18:53
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 01/03/2025 03:08:32
I'm proposing to change the STANDARD unit for torque in order to make it consistent with other rotational quantities.
And, if you think that has any hope of being adopted, it is evidence of a fault in your reasoning.


What's your reason to come to that conclusion?
Haven't you ever found any new standard? Or a standard being changed?
I have actually worked on the creation of international standards and it's safe to assume you have not.
To the best of my understanding, none was ever changed because "some guy of the internet says we are all wrong".
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #421 on: 03/03/2025 12:40:24 »
This is my first video about rotational quantities.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #422 on: 03/03/2025 12:52:22 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 01/03/2025 23:03:51
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 01/03/2025 22:55:52
Since τ = I α while α = 0, and τ ≠ 0,
Then I = ∞
So you really need to review your understanding of torque, because  I have described exactly what happens when you tighten a bolt.
You can't argue against math.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #423 on: 03/03/2025 12:57:15 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 02/03/2025 12:25:37
I have actually worked on the creation of international standards and it's safe to assume you have not.
To the best of my understanding, none was ever changed because "some guy of the internet says we are all wrong".
I don't think I can find your name there, so I won't know for sure.

To change a standard, saying that everyone is wrong isn't enough. It needs to be supported by strong evidence and argumentation to demonstrate that the new standard is more useful than the old one.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #424 on: 03/03/2025 17:07:28 »
So far you have merely demonstrated that you wish to create a new quantity with dimensions of force x distance /angle and give it a name that everyone already uses for something else. You have not demonstrated any actual use for it.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #425 on: 03/03/2025 20:35:35 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 03/03/2025 17:07:28
So far you have merely demonstrated that you wish to create a new quantity with dimensions of force x distance /angle and give it a name that everyone already uses for something else. You have not demonstrated any actual use for it.
Based on the equations widely used by everyone, it's called torque. It's also called rotational force, which is mouthful.
The actual use is to calculate motor power from torque and angular velocity with consistent and unambiguous units, among other.
« Last Edit: 03/03/2025 21:52:49 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #426 on: 03/03/2025 22:18:46 »
I'd like to remind you that rotational quantities don't exist in isolation. They are related to one another through corresponding equations.
In my video, at timestamp 4:30, you can see in the table, there are 3 units of rotational quantities that I proposed to change. They are rotational inertia, rotational momentum, and rotational force, aka torque.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #427 on: 03/03/2025 23:35:34 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 03/03/2025 12:57:15
To change a standard, saying that everyone is wrong isn't enough. It needs to be supported by strong evidence and argumentation to demonstrate that the new standard is more useful than the old one.
And you have not got close to doing that.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #428 on: 03/03/2025 23:39:25 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 03/03/2025 12:57:15
I don't think I can find your name there
Where?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #429 on: 04/03/2025 08:51:21 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 03/03/2025 20:35:35
The actual use is to calculate motor power from torque and angular velocity
P = τω.  If ω is in rad/sec, no conversion coefficients are required for SI units. What could be simpler? 
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #430 on: 04/03/2025 09:08:02 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 03/03/2025 23:35:34
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 03/03/2025 12:57:15
To change a standard, saying that everyone is wrong isn't enough. It needs to be supported by strong evidence and argumentation to demonstrate that the new standard is more useful than the old one.
And you have not got close to doing that.
A thousand miles journey starts with a single step.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #431 on: 04/03/2025 09:09:54 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 03/03/2025 23:39:25
creation of international standards
List of authors in a creation of international standards.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #432 on: 04/03/2025 09:10:56 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 04/03/2025 08:51:21
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 03/03/2025 20:35:35
The actual use is to calculate motor power from torque and angular velocity
P = τω.  If ω is in rad/sec, no conversion coefficients are required for SI units. What could be simpler? 
Why the radian doesn't show up in the unit of power?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #433 on: 04/03/2025 09:13:09 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 28/02/2025 13:10:47
Dot product between force and distance produces energy, which is a scalar. Cross product between force and distance from fulcrum produces torque, which is a vector.
The difference between dot product and cross product is shown in these videos.


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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #434 on: 04/03/2025 11:07:11 »
Conservation of Angular Momentum
Quote
Springfield College physics laboratory instructor, Jeff Gagnon, demonstrates the Conservation of Angular Momentum to his students.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #435 on: 04/03/2025 12:50:22 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 04/03/2025 09:09:54
List of authors in a creation of international standards.
Is there such a list available?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #436 on: 04/03/2025 12:51:12 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 04/03/2025 09:08:02
Quote from: Bored chemist on 03/03/2025 23:35:34
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 03/03/2025 12:57:15
To change a standard, saying that everyone is wrong isn't enough. It needs to be supported by strong evidence and argumentation to demonstrate that the new standard is more useful than the old one.
And you have not got close to doing that.
A thousand miles journey starts with a single step.
Only if it's in the right direction.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #437 on: 04/03/2025 12:55:29 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 04/03/2025 09:09:54
List of authors in a creation of international standards.

I have worked on two series of international standards, as contributing editor. We never published any names.

Now and again a person's name appears as a quantity, e.g. joule, sievert...or is mentioned in the practical definition of a unit (the Kibble balance...)
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #438 on: 04/03/2025 12:57:02 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 04/03/2025 09:10:56
Why the radian doesn't show up in the unit of power?
Because it is irrelevant. A watt is a watt.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What's the unit of Torque?
« Reply #439 on: 04/03/2025 13:18:43 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 04/03/2025 12:55:29
I have worked on two series of international standards, as contributing editor. We never published any names
Indeed.
If anyone is interested...
In EUR%2020989%20EN.pdf
here
https://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/handle/JRC24469

I'm not allowed to tell you which lab number is me.

(And this is the internet; there's no real way to verify my claim)
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